Brent Landrum 00:00:00  This is our journey, this is our story and this is our life. And so going forward, yes, will we come across people that don’t agree, or is our son going to experience people that just don’t understand? And yes, that will be a very real scenario, but it’s how we educate ourselves, educate the people around us and educate him. And you know, at the end of the day, love makes the family.

Katy Ripp 00:00:28  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defying what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self.

Katy Ripp 00:01:07  Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie. You’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go.

Katy Ripp 00:01:29  Okay, well. Hi, Brent.

Brent Landrum 00:01:31  Hello there.

Katy Ripp 00:01:32  Okay, so for everybody listening here, Brent is my banking best friend. I call him my banking BFF. We met Pat. I don’t even know. I guess right around the time we opened 1909.

Brent Landrum 00:01:43  Yeah. Well, before that.

Katy Ripp 00:01:45  Maybe five years ago. Five, six years ago maybe. Yeah. And Brent has single handedly or double handedly brought us to a financial, peaceful state.

Brent Landrum 00:01:55  Oh, you made it easy.

Katy Ripp 00:01:56  Thank you. But Brent also has a beautiful child via surrogacy, and I wanted to have him on here to talk about that because it is sort of what that weird like taboo subjects, especially with same sex marriages. I don’t know if that’s like the right way to say that or if there’s a way around it, but like just a very like touchy subject.

Katy Ripp 00:02:25  I don’t think it should be. But that doesn’t really mean I mean, just because I don’t think it should be doesn’t mean anything, really.

Brent Landrum 00:02:31  Yeah, you’re totally right. It’s just one of those questions and topics that people support, but they don’t know how to ask.

Katy Ripp 00:02:36  And that’s a great way to say it. Like, I totally support it on so many levels, but I really don’t know the details of it. So just like on a nosey level, because I like to be nosy and a nosy level, I love to get into like details of it. But I also think that your story and all of the guests I have on here, like, yes, actually I can do this, right. Like I yes, I actually I can decide to get married and have my child via this way this like this process. But I think that when we talk about these things, all of the things we give people permission to ask questions or to look into the process or like a permission slip to say, oh, maybe actually I can do that too.

Katy Ripp 00:03:23  Even though from a 30,000 foot view it’s obviously a popular thing to do. But when you hear it from somebody’s actual perspective, like a live person alive, really beautiful, soulful, amazing person, it just gives people permission to do that. So if you don’t mind, we’ll just like, dig right in.

Brent Landrum 00:03:45  Let’s do it.

Katy Ripp 00:03:46  Okay, so one of the big like questions for me personally, but maybe for other listeners out there is like, you know, when did you and your husband first start talking about even having a family? Because, like, as the same sex couple, that’s not just like the traditional easy way.

Brent Landrum 00:04:01  Yeah. And it’s a great question. And, you know, especially with. Yeah, you can’t just make a baby. We started the conversation. I bet we were 3 to 4 months into our relationship. You know, having gotten together as in my late 20s, he was, you know, mid 30s. You know, at that point when you start a relationship, you’re talking about the major life decisions.

Brent Landrum 00:04:22  So early on, that was a conversation we had. And we both knew we wanted a family, not at that time, but we agreed that, yes, we wanted a family. The specifics of how we were going to do it, we didn’t discuss, but we, you know, at least agreed on. Yes, a family is part of the plan, you know, and when the time is right, we’ll dive further into the conversation. So yeah, very early on.

Katy Ripp 00:04:46  Which I think that’s an early on conversation for lots of people. Right. Like that doesn’t I think I don’t think that’s like exclusive to hetero couples or whatever. Like, you just have that conversation like when you’re in a well and some people don’t have the conversation that really fucks up their marriage, like, oh yeah, have the conversation that you wanted a kid and I didn’t want a kid. And all of a sudden we’re four years into marriage and nope, that’s not an option, right? Like, yeah, that’s just to have that conversation.

Brent Landrum 00:05:15  Yeah. It’s not I want a lake house. You want a farmhouse? Like, no, you can’t just give up on those types of dreams. You absolutely have to have the conversations and you have to have honest conversations, not what you think the other wants to hear. You have to stand for yourself, stand for what you want. And if there isn’t a full agreement, well, then you know. Also by doing it early, you have allowed yourself time to evolve those conversations while your relationship evolves. And if you, you know, get to that point where, you know, you just can’t come to an agreement, well, then you have to make some harder decisions. But it absolutely should be a conversation that people have. You know, once they start to get into more serious, stable, long term arrangement.

Katy Ripp 00:05:58  Yeah. So you get married, right? And you’ve decided that you want children before you get married. You get married. How long after you got married did you start talking about that process?

Brent Landrum 00:06:10  So we actually started before we got married.

Katy Ripp 00:06:12  Oh, okay.

Brent Landrum 00:06:13  Yeah. So we were together. I think it was almost four years before we got engaged, but we knew that was coming. And also, you know, we were starting to, you know, get a little bit older. You know, life was kind of evolving in a couple areas. And so because of the process we had once we, you know, got a little more serious about it, then we started talking about, well, how are we going to do this? Yeah. And when, you know, surrogacy was kind of the only option that works for us in our situation. It just kind of was a natural conversation. There were a lot of great things about it that we liked and would work for us, and so we knew the process would take a while. And so we began probably a year before we officially got married, having those conversations and starting pieces of the puzzle. And then things kind of just timed out where then once we were married, we were the next logical steps were, you know, okay, now we’re going to get deep in the throes of this.

Brent Landrum 00:07:11  So. Okay. Yeah. It was not a shotgun wedding. No. Very. No. Not even close.

Katy Ripp 00:07:18  Do you know how long I was waiting for that joke?

Brent Landrum 00:07:21  Like you’re sure you were? I’m sure you were. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:07:27  Okay, so surrogacy was just, like, your first choice, right? Like, obviously there’s, you know, fostering or adopting. There’s other options out there. Just happened to be your first choice.

Brent Landrum 00:07:38  Yeah. And we fully respected all the other options. You know, me personally had always been interested in other ways of doing it, But yeah, this worked for both of us and we agreed on it. And because of the closer connections we had to some options. It was just it all made sense and fell in line quite nicely. And so even just disclaimer, as I talk about our paths, I fully acknowledge that everybody’s path is very different. And it’s hard. You know, we got very lucky in many aspects. But yeah, surrogacy just kind of rose to the top very quickly for what would work for us and the ways we could go about doing it.

Katy Ripp 00:08:16  Yeah. So tell me about that process. Like did you know how to start that process? Like, I wouldn’t even know. I mean, I guess I would Google surrogacy. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:08:27  Yeah, yeah. And naturally that would be the right way to do it. And I mean, obviously being careful with where you’re reading your information but like check your sources. Yeah. And so for us, we got really lucky that a close friend of ours knew somebody who had already carried for two other couples and one individual. And so knowing that, we kind of pretty much skipped the Google search and just had reached out to our friend of a friend and to just say, you know, hey, we are thinking about this process. We know each other enough that we feel like we can, you know, have a very honest conversation. We need to know we don’t need the fluff version. We need the real version from someone who has been involved in it. And so we arranged a dinner and started talking and, you know, talk through start to finish all the various components.

Brent Landrum 00:09:22  And one thing to note, two hours, you know, we call it a surrogate. It was technically a gestational carrier because we had an egg donor and then the sperm and then the embryo embryos were created and transfer it into our carrier. So it was not her egg. So oh my God. Okay.

Katy Ripp 00:09:40  So I have to know about this. Like yeah You had a separate egg donor. Not the surrogate. Correct. And is the term surrogate somebody that uses their own egg?

Brent Landrum 00:09:51  Yes.

Katy Ripp 00:09:53  Fascinating. Okay.

Brent Landrum 00:09:54  But because again, we don’t. I had no.

Katy Ripp 00:09:57  Idea.

Brent Landrum 00:09:58  I didn’t know until we were in it, so. Okay. But look. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:10:02  Eating people.

Brent Landrum 00:10:02  Already. Yeah. And another great reason I want to have these conversations is to educate people. It’s okay to ask. Yeah, it’s very okay to ask. Yeah. So we just had those conversations and it further solidified that this was the option we wanted to take, because there were ways that we could be very involved in the entire process and give us that pregnancy experience that a lot of people are used to or might call traditional.

Brent Landrum 00:10:30  So, yeah. So that’s how the planning.

Katy Ripp 00:10:32  You want that part, right? Yes. You wanted the part of like we want to be involved in the doctors appointments and the ultrasounds and. then. Okay. And did you had you decided already on the egg donor and like how do you decide which one of you or do you just like both go in a cup and put it together and just whatever.

Brent Landrum 00:10:55  Yeah. So at that point we had not even gotten to the egg donor phase because we were just trying to figure out like, okay, is this, you know, hearing the the nitty gritty details, is this going to be what works for us? Sure. And so once we knew that then yeah, that’s a whole nother chapter of like the process. And as far as who’s the biological father, that was not important to me. It just wasn’t something that I was focused on. I was focused on being a father. The biology of it had zero importance to me. Yeah. And so that was just an easy decision that I didn’t hold that as something I needed to be a part of, or needed to even be a consideration for.

Brent Landrum 00:11:35  So that part was very easy for us to discuss.

Katy Ripp 00:11:37  Oh, interesting. But I’m guessing.

Brent Landrum 00:11:39  That’s.

Katy Ripp 00:11:39  Not so easy for some people.

Brent Landrum 00:11:40  Oh, absolutely. I think there’s a lot of people that, you know, there’s always a desire to have, you know, the next generation be biologically part of you. And I totally respect that. For me, that just wasn’t didn’t need to be something to stress that you want.

Katy Ripp 00:11:54  To die in.

Brent Landrum 00:11:55  No, but I definitely can appreciate those that want that part of fatherhood or motherhood however you want to. But there’s options where you can mix both and then it is part of both. But for me personally, disclaimer just was a little too weird and oh, I didn’t want to go down that route. But yeah, definitely.

Katy Ripp 00:12:13  Just like an easy decision or just like this is the way we’re going to go.

Brent Landrum 00:12:16  Yeah, yeah. But totally respect those that they wanted.

Katy Ripp 00:12:19  Yeah. Good job. Follow your gut Brent. Good job. Yeah yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:12:22  Yeah. And do we need any more of my crazy out in the world? Probably not.

Katy Ripp 00:12:27  I mean, I would love some more, Brent, but we’ll talk.

Brent Landrum 00:12:29  About what you wish for.

Katy Ripp 00:12:31  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:12:32  So you had this dinner. Tell me what happens after that.

Brent Landrum 00:12:35  So then this is one of my favorite. I have a lot of favorite parts of our journey, but this is one of the favorite parts for me because I’m one where, you know, I go up my gut, I go off what feels right, and I had worked myself up there. Finding the right person is going to be such a like, if we can get through that, like, I’ll be shocked. But you know, we met with our friend of a friend and we are leaving the restaurant, and I looked at my husband and just said, she’s it. Everything about her was it. Her presence is welcoming and calming. She understood. Was able to have a conversation with both my myself and my husband and realized that we’re very different people and that he needs the facts.

Brent Landrum 00:13:19  We need to get to A to Z, but we got to hit all of the letters. I’m a, we might start at a, we’ll get to Z, but I got to go all out. You know, I’ve got to go through this whole entire journey going and it’s going to be Skittles and.

Katy Ripp 00:13:31  Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:13:32  Yeah. And so she fully Identified that piece, and I’m the more emotional one fills, the more stakes. You know, my husband’s the more stable one. And so just knowing that she got that was huge for me. But I felt comfort. I felt like we were protected. And so, yeah, I made that comment and my husband, you know, felt the same. And so we let a couple weeks ride, and then we reached back out to her and just said, you know, hey, we’d like to have a follow up conversation with you and your spouse. We just have some additional questions and thoughts. Yeah. And so we got together and basically just flat out said, like, if you’re interested, we would love you to consider carrying for us.

Brent Landrum 00:14:18  And, you know, without question, she said, I’m in. I’ve already done this twice. I want to do it one more time. You guys are my people to do this with. And so that’s.

Katy Ripp 00:14:27  Her. That’s like the sweetest thing. And she. Yeah, like, what a gift.

Brent Landrum 00:14:33  Yeah. And the other part that was so comforting was the reason that she does this for people or did it for people. She’s since, you know, retired, if you will. But knowing that her story was that she once had a coworker who wanted a child but could not carry. And so that had such an impact on her. And so her reason for doing this was to give other people the opportunity to have a family that can’t, you know, in the more traditional or natural way. And so knowing that and then also knowing that the two other scenarios she’s carried in were for the people that wouldn’t normally be selected by carriers and surrogates and agencies. And so even knowing that, you know, if we were to take the agency route, we would, you know, fall into that category.

Brent Landrum 00:15:21  There’s just a lot about her and her desire and why she does this that was so attractive and so meaningful. And so the pieces just all fell together, and it just felt right for this journey. and knowing that we had a friend in this and we had a partner in this, and she was going to care and be just as invested. And this wasn’t just a business transaction. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:15:42  Although kind of.

Brent Landrum 00:15:44  I mean, it is at 100% is. But knowing that she would we all were able to do the business transaction when that was the conversation we needed to have. But we could also have the we’re on this new life journey together.

Katy Ripp 00:15:57  Yeah. I mean, this is like all about being a heart led business owner. Yeah, right. Like you can do it differently, right? Like this is the most personal transaction possibly in the world, right? Yeah. You have to make it a business, but it can be so heart led that everybody comes out of this winning everybody.

Brent Landrum 00:16:23  Absolutely, absolutely.

Brent Landrum 00:16:25  And keeping the goal in mind through all of it, even as you get the attorneys involved. It’s just remembering you and that individual that that’s carrying the child. You have to be on the same page first and foremost, and all the other noise around it. If you let that seep in, then you’re going to have a negative experience or things might go awry that maybe could have been avoided. And so yeah, that’s if I can tell anybody, make sure you have that solid connection. Yeah. And if you don’t know the person and it truly is you know, you it’s this stranger via an agency, make the conversation personal and have warmth and understanding and remember that that person, everybody involved, you know, is emotionally impacted by it and just have some grace for each other. Yeah. yeah. But it’s the most personal. And like you said, heart lead thing you can do and heart lead business you can have.

Katy Ripp 00:17:24  Yeah. I mean like yes they’re. Yes, yes they Exist?

Brent Landrum 00:17:28  Yes they do.

Brent Landrum 00:17:29  They do?

Katy Ripp 00:17:30  Yeah. Okay. So end donor. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:17:34  So this part of the process was the most frustrating. So when you go into surrogacy gestational carrier you’ve got a couple options. You can do a natural egg cycle. Obviously you prep the female with you know, all the appropriate hormones. And then you do a an egg retrieval and you get all of the eggs from that cycle. And then you from there. Some people apt to go ahead and fertilize the eggs right away. Or you can you can freeze them and then thaw them to then fertilize. And we can dive more specifically on each side. But then the other option is to just buy, go through an egg bank where you buy cohorts of six frozen eggs. So they’ve already been retrieved from the female frozen into these groups of six. You in both scenarios, you’re flipping through a catalogue essentially, you know, now in digital.

Katy Ripp 00:18:29  That do you get to see what they look like.

Brent Landrum 00:18:31  So you get to see yeah, you get to see everything from baby pictures to, I’d say young adult pictures.

Brent Landrum 00:18:38  You don’t see them as an adult.

Katy Ripp 00:18:41  Okay. You don’t see them like the day they retrieve.

Brent Landrum 00:18:44  No, no, they keep some anonymity for that. But you are seeing that’s. Yeah. You’re seeing various stages in life and then you’re seeing they’re full and I mean full history, down to genetics, down to all the way. I think it branches out to aunts and uncles and their medical history and who and their family has passed away and why. So you’re seeing everything you possibly can about this individual and their family, so that you can make the best decisions for what’s going to work for your family. You know, if someone has a history of diabetes in their family and you’re saying, well, the biological father has that same history, Like, let’s maybe not pair those two together because it’s just not maybe the best scenario to put for sure.

Katy Ripp 00:19:30  Are you in a position to then like go in and filter down?

Brent Landrum 00:19:36  Yes. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:19:37  So like go on and you know, there’s some algorithm that says, okay, I don’t want somebody with like I have diabetes, I don’t want somebody with diabetes.

Katy Ripp 00:19:46  So it like takes all those people out because.

Brent Landrum 00:19:48  Yeah, you filter down hair color, eye color, skin color, even, you know, their national origin. Anything you think you could filter on, you can. And so it just kind of narrows it down. And then, you know, if you take the frozen side, then yeah, you’re buying what’s available. Typically at six once in a while you’ll get lucky where you’re getting two cohorts of 12. So there’s only like.

Katy Ripp 00:20:10  Two business transactions here. There’s like the purchase of the egg. Yeah. Well so that’s like one purchase right.

Brent Landrum 00:20:16  Yeah. The egg scenario is one bucket. Okay. And then you’ve got the actual surrogate or carrier in our case, the carrier. That’s another bucket. Yeah. And then yeah, in the mix of all that.

Katy Ripp 00:20:29  And the like you know getting the embryo right. And then inserting it in the carrier. Yep. Like that’s another medical thing right.

Brent Landrum 00:20:38  Yeah. So essentially you could think of it we had three buckets.

Brent Landrum 00:20:41  We had the fertility. Well I guess maybe. Yeah we had three buckets. We had the fertility clinic. We had the carrier and then we had the egg donor. So there’s three major components that we are funding and working with to make all of it come together.

Katy Ripp 00:20:56  And it sounds so weird, but like, are you general contracting all of that.

Brent Landrum 00:21:02  Yes, yes.

Katy Ripp 00:21:03  So like you’re now working with an agency because an agency, like sometimes you would pay one agency and they would do all they would facilitate all of that because. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:21:12  So that’s where.

Katy Ripp 00:21:13  Because you found the donor and you had the ore and you had the sperm, like you could have done like it was easier to do that by yourself.

Brent Landrum 00:21:22  Yeah. So we most people are going to have the agency that is. Yeah. That that general contractor kind of facilitating all of it. We were able to remove that piece. And so we just had to deal with via our fertility clinic. Yeah. We worked with the egg Bank via them.

Brent Landrum 00:21:37  But that was still a third party part of this. So yeah, we were fortunate because the agency is going to have a whole nother level of cost and a whole nother level of people to work with. And so that’s where we were very fortunate to remove that piece. And we’re able to just have our attorneys handle the a lot of the pieces that the agency would normally.

Katy Ripp 00:21:57  Yeah, yeah. Okay. So tell me about the actual like now we’ve got everything together. Right. So like to get six embryos.

Brent Landrum 00:22:09  So the first round. Yeah we purchase we went the pros and route for the. So in total we did four rounds of eggs. The first three were frozen. So the first round we purchased six. They were shipped to our fertility clinic. And then we entered into the fertilization period. So each of the six eggs was fertilized. And then you have to give them basically a seven day growth period. And at that seven days we ended up with we had two, I believe. And so with given six, that’s a decent number.

Brent Landrum 00:22:44  You you hope for more. But obviously there’s just, you know, nature that it takes its course. And so first transfer goes in, it takes and probably nine weeks. And we miscarried for whatever reason we’ll never know despite we had done genetic testing on everything. That’s another option once you have the embryos is to genetic test for over 250 various genetic deficiencies. We had just decided that that was important to us because if we’re spending the money and basically playing with science and we have the ability to pay for that testing. Let’s do it so that we’re setting ourselves up for success. And so, you know, unfortunately the first one didn’t take. And so yeah, we, you know, experienced the same emotions that everybody else goes through that, you know, which was very unexpected for me because at this point I’m trying to figure out, you know, this is us, but I’m a little bit removed, but yet I’m not. And so it was just a very emotional time. It was, you know, once we got all the pieces in place, things, you know, they progress and there’s so many things that you have to be thinking about at all times.

Brent Landrum 00:23:53  And so yeah, that first round was the best whirlwind I could possibly go through. And then I think everyone can benefit from. So yeah. So first round doesn’t take the worst that you know it is what it is. But then you know, you jump back in so and turn the second round back to the catalog to try to find an egg donor because our first one was not available anymore. Okay.

Katy Ripp 00:24:15  Okay. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:24:16  So now you’re okay on the next one who’s available. And you know, once you’re to that point, you’re basically checking daily, if not hourly because you don’t know the good ones get taken right away and you’ve got millions of people watching this. So, you know, we even had to do a full time job. It basically is. And so we basically had to come up with some key terms for text messaging of like, okay, this means this. Like you need to stop what you’re doing and look at this. Because if we need to act, we need to do it now, or I’ve got this one that I’m curious about if she’s available tonight when we’re together.

Brent Landrum 00:24:53  Okay, let’s take a look. But if not, like, no big deal. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you’re. It is. That’s the best way to put it. It’s a full time job on top of your full time job.

Katy Ripp 00:25:02  And your life and everything else.

Brent Landrum 00:25:04  Yeah, yeah. And so that’s a whole nother stressful component. And so I think this is a good time for me to tell people that when you enter into this process, you have to have your people. If you don’t have your people, your support system. I commend you for getting through it with sanity, but it’s so important to have those conversations with the people you trust. Share what you feel is pertinent to them so that they can be a support system for you. Because it’s such a roller coaster of emotions and there’s anxiety over, am I going to get the egg donor I want? Am I going to? Who knows? You just don’t know. And so it’s so crucial to have that. And that’s why I’m glad we’re having this conversation too, because while a more normal process, it is still taboo.

Brent Landrum 00:25:49  And it shouldn’t be, frankly.

Katy Ripp 00:25:51  Well, no. And I think just like knowing, you know, knowledge is power, right? So like all of a sudden I’m sitting here thinking as you’re talking like it’s kind of like not getting the house that you thought you wanted, right? Like, I’m not getting the house I thought I wanted and I’m crushed by this. But then the house that I end up with Actually turns out to be the best. Like, I’m so glad I didn’t get that other house kind of thing. Right. So. And but we’re talking about a child here, right? Like, this isn’t a house, it’s a child. It’s a new human being. And what you were talking before about, like messing around with science. Yes. You’re messing around with science. And that’s I think it’s amazing that we have that kind of technology. But also like when you’re doing that on a regular basis, it’s so easy to think of it as transactional. And then you have a loss like that and the emotions just like slap you across the face.

Katy Ripp 00:26:47  They’re like, oh no, wait, the universe is like, please, actually, this is real and this is a real loss. And here are real emotions around this. And this is not picking out drapes.

Brent Landrum 00:26:59  Yeah. Yeah it is.

Katy Ripp 00:27:02  Brent.

Brent Landrum 00:27:03  Yeah. It’s one of if not the most important decision you’re going to make. And some of the things that you have to think about while you’re picking out an egg donor. One of the I think important things we had to decide was so the egg donor has two options when they are donating their eggs. First one, do they want to remain anonymous for the entirety of their life? That is an option. The other option is when child turns 18. They are okay being contacted so that that child can know who their biological mother is. And so I always tell people that was the first parental decision I made was, and I shouldn’t say me we our first parental decision was what options do we want our future child to have? And you have to remove yourself from that and say what is going to be best for your child? And so, you know, we had to make that decision and not think about ourselves.

Brent Landrum 00:27:56  And so you’re already having to put yourself in this mental parental state when you don’t even know if there’s going to be a child involved.

Katy Ripp 00:28:03  Yeah. And these are decisions I didn’t have to make. Right. Like these are decisions that I just like. I mean, maybe TMI, but like, we got pregnant the first time both times, right? Like wham bam, thank you ma’am, I am pregnant. I didn’t think about any of this. Right. Like none of it. I didn’t have to think about anything. I basically thought about, you know, at the time how fat I was going to get. And. Right. And your carrier has to think about that anyway, right? Yeah. She’s going to have to think about all that. Right? Right. Anyway, like, I wasn’t making decisions about my 18 year old son when I like before I got pregnant.

Brent Landrum 00:28:45  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:28:46  Oh my God, it’s so good. You know, it’s good for you to share Brent.

Brent Landrum 00:28:50  Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:28:50  I mean, and as I’ve always told you, I’m an open book. I think it’s important to have this information out there. And for people to know that there’s other people locally, regionally, nationally that are willing to talk because we were lucky that we were able to have that relationship with our carrier Early on to know some of this stuff, but a lot of people aren’t going to be in that scenario. And so to know that there are resource groups and there are people that can tell you, you know, I’m not going to tell you all fluff. I’ll tell you exactly how it is, because I want you to understand and have a very real understanding of what you’re about to the journey you’re about to take so that you’re not. I think it just helps control your emotions with it. And you know what to expect. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:29:36  Yeah. More you.

Brent Landrum 00:29:37  Know. Yeah, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:29:39  Okay. So you’re on the second round.

Brent Landrum 00:29:41  Yes. So we did another frozen round. Nothing developed. Embryos did not I can’t remember how many made it to the final day.

Brent Landrum 00:29:51  But after the genetic testing it just they were not good and so disappointed. But we’d rather know that they’re not great from the get go, so we don’t waste time or anything like that. And so third round we’re going again. And third egg donor and I should back up. So second round we had embryos they didn’t take. So then move to third round new egg donor. And again we I don’t remember how many we had. We go through the growth cycle and nothing again. So that’s where we took a hard pause of okay this is very trying. It’s very exhausting for us. Covid is starting to be a thing. So there’s just a lot of factors in we’re tired. And so we took a hard pause to just say, okay, our three rounds enough. Can we be satisfied with three rounds of trying? And maybe this is the universe telling us that, you know, while you guys want this, it’s just not in the cards. Should you explore other options? What is next? And so we took a little bit of time to just kind of sit with our feelings, talk, see what we were feeling.

Brent Landrum 00:31:02  And you know, for me personally, I was very frustrated with the process. You know, we had interviewed various fertility clinics and one had the very cocky thought to say, you know, for you guys, this should be like a slam dunk hundred percent. No problem. And while I knew that that was not the case, you know, you still have that in the back of your head. Like we basically are in the best situation because we can literally put the puzzle together with the perfect pieces. So why is this not working? Even though my smart side of my brain said, that’s. You can’t believe that. Well, yeah, but logic.

Katy Ripp 00:31:36  Goes out the window at that.

Brent Landrum 00:31:37  Point, right? Yeah. And so I was starting to think about, you know, maybe adoption is something we start to consider. But again, you know, this wasn’t just me. We had to have a collective conversation. And again, you know, surrogacy was just still the best option for us.

Brent Landrum 00:31:52  It’s still it checked all the boxes that were important to us. And so after a brief pause, we dove back in. But we switched our method. We then switched back to we’re going to do the natural egg retrieval. But basically we got the egg donor lined up. She took the medicine, you know, did all of that. And then when she was ready, she came into the fertility clinic and we retrieved all of the egg. So we got, I think it was in the 20s. We got 20 some eggs, which is great. I mean, it’s, you know, double or three times what we were getting for same amount of money. But with that you’ve got to you have to have some other things ready. Like, you know, the sperm has to be ready to go so that they can fertilize right away. And yeah. And so, you know, we had some help from our fertility clinic to make that happen. And kind of we had in the meantime, figured out that the bank was doing some things that were very questionable that actually set up, set us up for failure, which was very annoying because, you know, for us, we could make it work.

Brent Landrum 00:32:57  But I know that there’s a lot of people out there that that might have been there last chance, the last, you know, amount of money they have for this.

Katy Ripp 00:33:05  And you are. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:33:06  Yeah. So that, you know, was very it was an anger feeling of just, you know, you’re lucky you did this to us. You know, I it’s like betrayal. Yeah. It very much is. And so you kind of have to we had to put that aside. And then we shifted because we also learned that, you know, the frozen route, while it’s a newer option, it does decrease the health of the eggs. And so we opted to take the more tedious path that required a lot more pieces to be involved. But it worked for us in the end. And, you know, I’ve had conversations with people interested in the process before, and I will hands down always say avoid the frozen way because you just you’re adding a level of failure to it for a lack of a better way.

Brent Landrum 00:33:51  But yeah, so we ended up with a lot more eggs fertilized. And at the end of it we had seven embryos, embryo, seven very healthy embryos of varying genders. Everything was good and so was gender. So because of the genetic testing, that’s one thing they find out. So, you know, we had.

Katy Ripp 00:34:09  Like you knew what the embryos were.

Brent Landrum 00:34:12  So we knew what all seven were. Yes. Yes. Oh my god. Yeah. As far as once it was time to transfer, we did not know that. We had just said we need you to pick, you know, they grade them basically on a scale. And I just said you need to pick. You need to pick the eight plus one. Yeah, that is where we’re at. So yeah. But we and we didn’t genetic tests to know what the gender was. We didn’t did that testing to know that everything was okay with all of the genetics involved. That just happens to be something you get to find out.

Brent Landrum 00:34:44  So yeah. Cool. Yeah. Well, we.

Katy Ripp 00:34:46  Get to find out later anyway, right.

Brent Landrum 00:34:48  Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. And so we ended up in a really great scenario. And it’s one of those times where I’m very thankful we hit pause? Yeah. That in our feelings had the conversations but also had the advocates on our side and on our team to say, you know, we hear you, we see you. We know where you were at. But let’s let’s try this again. We we think we can do this. And so we did it. And you know here we are with seven embryos ready to transfer. So then you just shift to getting the carrier ready. And then it’s transfer day and oh my god it’s.

Katy Ripp 00:35:22  A day obviously.

Brent Landrum 00:35:23  Yeah yeah yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:35:25  And do they do one.

Brent Landrum 00:35:27  So this is where there’s some variation. So it’s going to come down to the fertility clinic. And what is their protocol. It also comes down to what you and the surrogate or carrier have decided.

Brent Landrum 00:35:41  In our case it was one we were not doing any more than that. That was not allowed. Which is fine, because if you put in two, you could move both where and then you’re down to where. Maybe it was just a timing thing where if you had only done one and then take and then you do the other one, it could have taken. So yeah, we just did.

Katy Ripp 00:36:00  Also, you might end up with twins, correct?

Brent Landrum 00:36:03  That would have been fun. But that was not the case. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So we you know, we transferred the first embryo and you know lucky for us that one took. And you know we haven’t had to touch the remaining. So. Wow. So what do.

Katy Ripp 00:36:18  You do with the remaining.

Brent Landrum 00:36:20  So we have them on ice. They are frozen. Yeah. They’re frozen on ice. There’s lots of options at this point, but yeah, we you can keep them donate embryos. Yes. That is an option that people can donate their embryos to those couples that maybe I sound really stupid here.

Brent Landrum 00:36:36  I know these are all things I didn’t know until I was in the process, you know? So there’s no.

Katy Ripp 00:36:41  Embryos.

Brent Landrum 00:36:42  Yeah, yeah, I don’t I think it’s one of those things we people don’t talk about. There’s such a taboo of, well, is that child biologically yours? Well, who the fuck cares, you know? Right? Yeah, it’s. Yeah, that is an option for people. So. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:36:59  Okay, so tell me about the pregnancy.

Brent Landrum 00:37:02  Yeah. Pregnancy was I will say that I definitely ate up the whole well we’re pregnant. I can eat whatever I want, I can do what I want, but yeah. Yeah. So pregnancy, you know, for her it was pretty status quo. This was not her first time. She very much. She knew her body. She knew her brief phase of this. So she shared those details. So we knew what was going on. And so we were able to support her in the ways that she needed to be supported.

Brent Landrum 00:37:34  She was local enough that we could be as involved or not as we wanted. Per our agreement. We had the right to be at every appointment. Basically, we had full access, but we really we trusted her knowing that she had done this many times before. And she how well she knew her body, I mean it. There were times where she knew her body better than the doctor did and would, you know, or would say, you know, I’m going to be ready on this day. And the doctor would say, oh, okay, well, guess who was right. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So we just kind of let her go about the pregnancy and kind of do her thing. We attended all the major milestone appointment, you know, and we’re there to support her. And we would see her probably once a month just to check in, you know, and it’s also fun to, you know, we’re not seeing the belly grow every day. So to be able to still experience that and you know, the kicks and all of that.

Brent Landrum 00:38:28  Yeah. And she was really great about, you know, if there was a night where, he was really active, the next morning, she would give us an update on, you know, he was he was kicking last night. And so, you know, while we weren’t there for the day to day stuff, we were very much involved in this pregnancy and definitely felt the pregnancy The experience and you know, because she knew and she’s been through it. And so she knew how important it was, you know, and there was also a benefit to us being local enough to interact on a more regular basis versus the other times, because we surrogacy, or being a carrier during the, the initial phase that we’ve already talked about in this conversation, the surrogate or carrier is going to the intended parents for appointments and all of that because you’re going to their doctors and all of that. Then when you’re at the end of the pregnancy, then the intended parents are coming to the carrier or the surrogate, because at that point, you know, she needs to be local to where she’s going to be.

Brent Landrum 00:39:27  So there’s very much a there’s a lot of in many people’s cases, there’s a lot of travel involved and a lot of logistics you have to figure out. And so there was just a lot of benefit to us being close enough where we could have that closer involvement on a more regular basis. But we also fully respected her. And, you know, some of this is her body and she needs She’s out that privacy. And, you know, some of the routine appointments we don’t need to go to. You know, we trust you. And she would communicate with us on, you know, hey, everything’s great or whatnot. But yeah. So that was just a very surreal experience leading up to birth, which was very not just normal. It was. Yeah. So yeah. And through this whole process, you know, the other thing to think about or to share is there the money part of this, the transaction and part of it that, you know, people don’t like to, to talk about, but it is part of it, you know, the intended parents are responsible for, you know, leading up to the pregnancy, you know, medications and things that she needs to prep for this process.

Brent Landrum 00:40:30  And then once pregnant, you know, she got a gas stipend every however often she submitted it. Then she got a food stipend, she got a clothing stipend, like there’s a lot of money, like things that you are providing for, because if it wasn’t for you, she wouldn’t need maternity clothes or she maybe, you know, wouldn’t need as much food. And so there is added another component. There is a company that all they do are escrow accounts for these types of scenarios, which is kind of nice because then she didn’t have to come to us for money. They just removed that piece of it. And so yeah, we just had to keep this account funded to a certain dollar amount. And then she would submit for any of those three things and get paid via that escrow account. So. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:41:16  Was all of that done ahead of time through attorneys?

Brent Landrum 00:41:20  Yeah. So she had an attorney representing her. We had an attorney representing us. And there is a very long document that we all had to agree on in sign, but everything was outlined in there.

Brent Landrum 00:41:31  Yeah. And all of that is agreed on.

Katy Ripp 00:41:34  How much it was going to be for maternity clothing or all these savings were already agreed upon. And also she knew what it was going to cost Imposter.

Brent Landrum 00:41:43  Yeah. Yeah, I’ve done it before.

Katy Ripp 00:41:45  Right? Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:41:45  Yeah. And there’s also some standards for that industry, if you will. But yeah, she knew that from the past. And yeah. So all of that is signed sealed and delivered before you even start any. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:41:58  And I imagine that this is all you know from a finance standpoint. Right. Like these things cost money. Everybody knows it’s expensive. Right. All you hear is IVF is expensive. Surrogacy is expensive, adoption is expensive. But nobody really knows what expensive means. And I don’t want to ask you specifics about yours because it’s very I realize that it is very specific to a surrogate agency or whatever. Can you give me a range of what we’re talking about for like the fertility clinic, is there a range that, you know, you’re talking I mean, is it let’s just say, is it like $100,000 plus? Is it $50,000 plus? Is it 500,000? You know what I mean?

Brent Landrum 00:42:40  Like, yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:42:41  you’re expensive is.

Katy Ripp 00:42:43  Way different for me than it is for my 25 year old self.

Brent Landrum 00:42:47  Yeah. So all in for all the components, you are definitely in the 100,000 plus range. Okay. For standard surrogate or carrier fee, you’re in the 30 to 40,000 range just for her fee for being the carrier. Yeah. Being that. Yeah. Being the.

Katy Ripp 00:43:06  Vessel.

Brent Landrum 00:43:07  Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. As far as the eggs, I think that’s gonna vary a little bit by the egg bank. But you’re in the 15 to 30 range for eggs depending on the path you take, how many you get.

Katy Ripp 00:43:21  I mean, are there varying prices for like, this is going to sound so dumb, but like, are blue eyes more expensive than brown eyes?

Brent Landrum 00:43:28  No. Okay. No. Those. No, the eggs are the cost is the same. So yeah. Okay. So yeah. So that’s pretty standard. But yeah. Yeah it’s standard okay.

Katy Ripp 00:43:39  Yeah. So expensive.

Brent Landrum 00:43:41  Yeah. Yes. It is a financial commitment.

Brent Landrum 00:43:44  You know, fortunately there’s options out there for financing. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. There’s different programs you can submit to to get, you know, kind of financial aid if you will. Like loans. Yeah. Yeah. Well no shit. Yeah. That’s a great time. You could use your heat lock for that if you wanted. There’s the banker. I mean, I’m not.

Katy Ripp 00:44:06  Gonna lie, it immediately went to my head like, are there things that you can’t use it like, can you not use a lock for it?

Brent Landrum 00:44:14  But, you know, as I, as you know, as I tell my clients, I don’t care what you do with it. Just pay it back. Yeah. I mean, you don’t pay money, by all means. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there’s things out, tools out there to assist with the process because it is so expensive.

Katy Ripp 00:44:30  I didn’t really know that. I kind of thought you had to pay cash for all this shit, so.

Katy Ripp 00:44:34  Yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:44:34  That’s awesome. Thanks. But yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:44:37  Yeah. Like, that’s also an amazing tool. I didn’t.

Brent Landrum 00:44:40  Know that. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s one of those things, you know, do your research, you know, check a few different places and. Yeah. And check just in you, you you’d be surprised of what you already have in your life. That could be a way to pay.

Katy Ripp 00:44:53  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So birth.

Brent Landrum 00:44:58  Yes. Yeah. So because our carrier knew herself like she had prepped us from the get go, like I will go at this week. And when I say go it’s we’re going, you know, within an hour. So just be ready. So for us it was, you know, in those final four weeks of our pregnancy where I decided, you know, okay, I told my husband, like, you need to buy this date, you need to stop your travel because we know typically she’s going to go early.

Brent Landrum 00:45:26  I’m going to start going to the appointments just because at that point, I think you’re just you’re hearing a lot. And so she had one and I said, okay, I’m going to start coming to them. We go. And as we’re sitting there waiting, she said, yeah, I just, you know, wanted to let you know I did start contractions last night, but they were light, so I didn’t want to alarm you guys. And I didn’t know too. Like, maybe this is just kind of the pre, you know, the the pre. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. like. Oh cool. This is okay. We’re getting close here. This is real. Yeah. Let me go into the appointment and she, the doctor looks and you know hey you’re dilated this much. You know I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s in the next couple of days, so. Okay. You’re automatically, you know, mentally we kind of already prepared for that. But you’re kind of okay. Do we? You know, for me, it’s a high anxiety.

Brent Landrum 00:46:13  Okay. Do I have everything ready? I better start to get work, you know, in line. And you know, because I know that when she says go, it’s going to happen. So there’s not going to be a lot of this, okay? She’s in labor for 24 hours. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, at that point, you know, as we left that appointment, she said, I’m going to head home, I’m going to be at home, I’m having my husband come home, you know, keep you monitored, you know, she said. My husband and I attacked. You know, while I was with her and, you know, just so he could hear like, this is what’s going on, why don’t you head home and work like we basically all we need to be stationary because it’s probably going to come sooner than later. And so, yeah, we’re, you know, the whole day, you know, working. I think I had stuff wrapped up within two hours by, you know, by the time I got home, just because that’s me and, you know, so then we’re just kind of waiting and waiting, trying not to bother her.

Brent Landrum 00:47:03  And oddly enough, if anyone says, you know, whether you’re pregnant or not or if you’re not pregnant, you don’t go into nesting mode, you could go into nesting because I went into full, like I cleaned the entire fridge. You know, anything that could be cleaned? It was clean. Yeah. It’s like I’m.

Katy Ripp 00:47:18  Never coming home again.

Brent Landrum 00:47:20  Yeah, exactly. And it was just also, I think to that nervous energy of, yeah, just, you know, things need to be in place. And I’ll never forget she called it 453 or no, she called it for 55. And I saw I went and got my husband who said, hey, guys like contractions or they’re pretty intense. I think we’re going to head in just to check, you know, you don’t need to come. And I said, no, I’m going to be there. So I think that was 455. We were out the door by 506 on our way to the hospital through Madison traffic at the worst time, I think we got to the hospital at 525, and he was born at 543.

Brent Landrum 00:47:59  So hello again. She knew her body, so we knew we got to go. And I think it’s the one time I told my husband, you drive as fast as you need to and I don’t care. Yeah, we are getting there. Yeah. And even in the hospital we get there and they’re trying to stop you. To get to register, you need to answer all these questions. No, ma’am. No, she’s in this room. If you have questions for me, you are welcome to walk with me and hang with me in the elevator. But if I miss this birth, you’re not going to want to know me. Yeah. And so, yeah, we made it in there. We were able to be in there, we were able to get an exception because it was obviously still, you know, tail end of Covid times.

Katy Ripp 00:48:36  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:48:37  Where which we can come back to that because I have a great point for that. But so it was going to be one support person for her and one support person for the baby.

Brent Landrum 00:48:45  And so we’re the side piece will come back to. But we were all able to be in there. So we got in there a couple pushes and there he was. So we barely made it. But it was so surreal and so amazing that just kind of being there to to witness this, you know, that, you know how amazing that is. But also we were all in the room together, the four of us, and just finally seeing like, this is what all the hard work and the relationship we have built as a team of four, like this is what it all came down to. And so yeah, it was just at that point you’re like, this was all worth it. This is why we have experienced all of this. You know, while it truly sucked at times, this I wouldn’t trade any of it. Yeah, not only for the obvious fact of we wouldn’t have our son or we’d have. Who knows? But this is exactly why everything happened for this exact moment.

Brent Landrum 00:49:38  And we’re here. We made it. And now the next chapter starts.

Katy Ripp 00:49:41  So tell me about the experience of, like, baby comes out, right? Like my brain goes to normally they would put the baby on the mom’s chest except like, not mom, right? So do you guys get baby?

Brent Landrum 00:49:55  Yeah. So she did take him initially just because again, you’re still you’re kind of wrapping up some things that. Yeah. Yeah, that was cool. But pretty quickly after that he was given to us to do, you know, skin on skin and just kind of at that point that’s when she’s kind of out of it now. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:50:12  Did she I mean is that a or was that something discussed in the beginning like in. Yeah. I don’t know how like I don’t you don’t really want to set the romance out of it. But at the same time, like those are important. Like that’s an important Attachment. Yeah. Now you’re talking about a living human that there are, like, scientific, you know, evidence to back up the skin on the skin, the attachment, you know, that kind of thing.

Katy Ripp 00:50:37  Not to mention the emotional part of, like, that’s my baby, right?

Brent Landrum 00:50:42  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:50:43  her emotion of I was just the vessel. This is not my baby, right? Like, yeah, that’s extremely difficult after you’ve just pushed.

Brent Landrum 00:50:52  Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. All of that is very much outlined in the hospital is actually have protocols too in place for these types of scenarios. So for us we understood I mean there is a period where you all have to be in there because there’s still some things that they want to try, you know, does the baby latch? You go even though you know she wasn’t going to be breastfeeding. It is important to know does the baby respond to a nipple? You know, so just kind of some of those things. And there’s a lot of good benefits in that. First those first few ounces of breast milk. So you want to make sure that you give that. But again, we had all of that without line as far as what we would allow when.

Katy Ripp 00:51:30  She goes.

Katy Ripp 00:51:30  To ask those questions, obviously like, okay, so again, my brain goes to like, if Cousin Jenny wants to carry my baby, it’s cool to have like that kind of conversation and be like, yeah, totally carry your baby. Except there’s so much in there that if you don’t have that outlined in advance, just like every business transaction on Earth. Yeah, if you don’t have that outlined, then there are expectations that are somehow going to be not met.

Brent Landrum 00:52:01  Correct. And that’s why you could have your best friend, your sister, your cousin, whoever carry for you. You have to have those conversations, no matter how uncomfortable they are. Because when you’re in that moment, it’s a relief to know, well, this decision has already made her writing her a legal contract, you know, so you’re protected. So yeah, you have to have those conversations. If you don’t, you’re asking for the biggest, best in the world.

Katy Ripp 00:52:25  Well, and there’s not a bigger mess than that.

Katy Ripp 00:52:28  Yeah. Now you have a child involved, right? That is somehow going to, you know, suffer from whatever. Yeah. Conversation that hasn’t been talked about because somebody was uncomfortable in advance.

Brent Landrum 00:52:40  Right. Yeah. Exactly. And yeah. So, you know, once I think we were maybe all together for an hour. And then at that point she went to her room, we went to our room. And at that point in the hospital’s eyes, we were not to have any contact because, I mean, that’s what they’re used to. That’s their protocol. Because in most scenarios, this is very much a business transaction. There is not any kind of a personal connection. And so at that point you are to communicate via the nurses to keep that line of care. Well then, you know, then.

Katy Ripp 00:53:07  Your room, is that really the son’s room? So yeah, it’s his room because obviously you’re not in the like labor and delivery part anymore.

Brent Landrum 00:53:17  Like did you go to. Yeah we are.

Brent Landrum 00:53:19  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:53:19  Oh okay.

Brent Landrum 00:53:20  Yeah. We’re with the rest of the new families. The new moms. Yeah, we’re right in that line. And that was one of the best experiences. I wish I could give the hospital kudos, but out of respect for them, I won’t name it. But one of the best experiences they had been through it before. They understood. They also understood the connection we had to our carrier. So the whole way you need to communicate with us, they were okay bending that rule because they knew they witnessed the partnership we had in this. And but yeah, at that point, you’re very much your separate groups now. And we are just experiencing the normal newborn waves at the hospital. And, you know, she’s doing her thing. And, you know, the next day she’s done and home, you know, and she goes with her life. And here we are trying to figure out this new thing.

Katy Ripp 00:54:08  Just like everybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brent Landrum 00:54:10  And that’s the other thing I want to remind people of.

Brent Landrum 00:54:13  You know, we were able to all be in there because the beauty of attorneys, I’m not afraid to say, my attorney will call you because again, this is a very real scenario and a very special moment and certainly was not going to deny our carrier having her husband there. He should be there. This is a major life thing for his wife and a lot could go wrong. He absolutely should be there for her, you know? But for us, the idea that we had to pick who could be in there was never an option for me. And so a couple phone calls and, you know, looping your attorney in flex when you have to flex, you know, I’m not one to flex, but there are times in life where you have to look out for yourself and make sure that you’re owed what you deserve. And if you have to flex, do it because there’s a lot more heart out there than we realize. And when you explain a scenario, people get it. And so, you know, you make sure you have the people there that you want and that this experience is what you expect and deserve.

Brent Landrum 00:55:11  And so through the whole process, don’t be afraid to ask questions. Challenge when you need to, because at the end of that, you’re fighting for your experience and you’re fighting for your child’s experience, and so be your own best advocate through all of it.

Katy Ripp 00:55:26  In all life.

Brent Landrum 00:55:27  Well that too. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:55:30  Tell me about the relationship you have with the carrier now.

Brent Landrum 00:55:33  Yeah. So our legal agreement and most do say that, you know, once birth is done, you’re done. No contact. You’re going your separate ways. And in most scenarios that is the case because you don’t know that. And that is written in our contract. But we have agreed because of the personal relationship we had prior to that. We do still have a relationship, and we see her on occasion. And when the time is right, our son will know her in okay. Yes, he knows her, but he will know the capacity in which she played in his coming to life. Because I also, I personally feel that they have a bond from those nine months.

Brent Landrum 00:56:11  And who am I to take that away from them and if they want to create this bond going forward as he grows. I am in full support of that. Partly comfortable with that because biologically there is no connection. And so aside from the legal documents we signed, legally she has no right to the child. And so to give I’m fully in support of you know, he will know that story when the time is right. And he is totally allowed to develop whatever kind of relationship he wants with her because of that, what they went through together. And so we’re very lucky in that scenario that we get to keep her around and still just experience. I mean, our families became one, one of her children, I always say as our son’s first friend, it’s just a very it’s such a memorable thing that we have to keep giving it energy because we never want to forget it.

Katy Ripp 00:57:06  Yeah, because it just is such an important part of it. Like, again, like that’s not a connection I will ever get either.

Katy Ripp 00:57:12  Right? Like some of the things that you get. I won’t write like I wouldn’t get. I wouldn’t get that kind of connection. My kids don’t have that kind of connection with anybody but me. So like, I just always think in these situations, right? Like there’s blended families and divorce families and, you know, like, if it’s all in, if it’s all hurtled, it’s just more people to love and more people to love on you, and more people love on your children and more people to like, be there for you when shit goes awry. Because it’s gonna. Yeah, I think that. God, what a gorgeous story. Really like.

Brent Landrum 00:57:51  Yeah. And, you know, I look at it too is, you know, our son deserves to have a female presence in his life. He’s got wonderful grandmothers, he’s got wonderful aunts. But the more female involvement in his life, the better, because there is something that, you know, we as his two dads can’t give him in that capacity.

Brent Landrum 00:58:10  And so, yeah, if she can be an additional presence. Absolutely. You know, every female that is in his life I find value with. And, you know, I very much encourage he needs to have those relationships because we can only give them so much on our end.

Katy Ripp 00:58:27  Well, we can all only give so much to, you know, like, yeah, it’s just good to have more people. Like more.

Katy Ripp 00:58:32  Absolutely. Or better.

Brent Landrum 00:58:33  Yeah, absolutely.

Katy Ripp 00:58:35  Yeah. I would love to get into I mean, we could get into an entire conversation, which might have to be part two about raising a child. Yeah. And sex couple. Yeah, it’s a great way to say it.

Brent Landrum 00:58:46  Even I shall I say it.

Katy Ripp 00:58:49  Okay I don’t even so yeah it’s.

Katy Ripp 00:58:50  Fine. Sometimes I’m like fuck am I saying the right.

Katy Ripp 00:58:53  Like politically correct.

Katy Ripp 00:58:54  Thing? I, you know, like we could go on and on and on. Obviously I want to be respectful of your time, but you know, like as you’ve gone through this experience, you know, like the first like the baby times and that part of it has this like, just like it does with any, you know, Traditional family.

Katy Ripp 00:59:11  How has this changed, like your outlook on life and this experience of surrogacy and, you know, gestational carrier and how much you learned like tell me about like what this has done, the experience in and of itself has done for you.

Brent Landrum 00:59:27  For me, it’s humbled me. It’s given more value to life, which I know is probably the cliche answer, but it’s really just put a lot of things into perspective. But it’s also really taught me to, you know, you need to be thankful for what’s in front of you, but also kind of back to that advocacy part. You need to advocate for yourself. You need to stand up for yourself. You need to advocate for those around you. But it’s also taught me to be proud. This is our journey, this is our story and this is our life. And so going forward, yes, will we come across people that don’t agree, or is our son going to experience people that just don’t understand? And yes, that will be a very real scenario, but it’s how we educate ourselves, Educate the people around us and educate him on this is your path and you are loved more than you will ever know by an army of people.

Brent Landrum 01:00:19  And you know, at the end of the day, love makes the family. We have a book that we read to him and that is the title. It’s love that Makes the family. It can be a mom and a dad. It can be two dads. It’s a whole range of things. And we’re also extremely lucky that the daycare he’s in. There is so much diversity and there are many different family structures. So from this age, you know, he’s already been exposed to family looks very different for everybody, but they’re all still a family. And so it’s just really brought things home. And just besides making sure I do my best, raising this child is also educating when and where I can and advocating for those that maybe can’t or, you know, don’t have the voice to. And also, let’s talk about it yet, don’t be afraid to talk about it. And I even, you know, I have to give kudos to my employer. You know, working in a pretty conservative industry, I never once have felt like I’ve had to hide anything, and I’ve had nothing but support on that end.

Brent Landrum 01:01:20  And so, you know, you’d be surprised who’s on board. And also, if you are in a situation that maybe isn’t the norm. Own it and tell the people around you that it’s okay. Ask questions. Let’s learn together or you’re not going to offend me. Don’t be offended by everything. If people are asking questions, they want to learn. So educate them because you’re a real person in front of them that can show them. Like here is a physical example of this scenario. I’ve never thought I would come across that with my employer. I even told them ones like because I could tell they were dancing around questions and I finally just said just ask. I’m not going to be offended. I know I’m the first gay male having a kid for you. Let’s own it. But let’s do this together. Like we don’t progress as a society if we don’t have hard conversations. Respectfully. Yeah, so that is my very long winded high horse answer to what I thought.

Katy Ripp 01:02:16  I love it, I have a question.

Katy Ripp 01:02:18  I have a question that’s like.

Katy Ripp 01:02:20  Yes, when.

Katy Ripp 01:02:21  You, you know, assuming you came out, I don’t know how that happened. Like how, you know, did you think that having a child would be possible for you?

Brent Landrum 01:02:32  I guess it was never not possible. Okay. You know, I’m very fortunate in my journey that I’ve never had anybody turn their backs on me for who I am. My family has been great. I mean, I have zero complaints about that experience. So then to look at, well, I wanted a family, but, you know, is this an option? I guess, like I said, it never wasn’t an option. Yeah. And that’s a great thing about living where we live. We’re mostly progressive. And again, it goes back to I don’t care if you don’t like it. I’m still going to do it. This is something I want, something we want. And so we’re going to do it. Yeah. So it just was never the.

Katy Ripp 01:03:10  Way, right? Like there’s. Yeah, I’ve recently read a book. I can’t remember what the book was. The premise was change it from I can’t afford this to how can I afford this? Yeah, right. Like I can’t do this thing. How about how can I do this thing right? Because there is always a way. And there are people all over the world doing what you did. You’re not the first person. Even if you were the first person, you still can do it. It’s just like there’s lots of people that did things for the first time. But in this particular instance, there are attorneys set up for this, an escrow account set up for this, and hospitals set up for this. Right. Like somebody else found a way. Yeah. You can find a way to. It’s just to give yourself the permission to find out how.

Katy Ripp 01:04:03  Yes.

Brent Landrum 01:04:03  And don’t be in a hurry. Yeah. Do it on your timeline. Do it on the parameters you have. There’s such a pressure to.

Brent Landrum 01:04:13  You need to be pregnant. It needs to happen in this timeframe. Just everybody’s journey is their own, and we need to be okay with it. Yeah, easier said than done. But we have to be okay with it. And we have to know that our path is our path, and you’re the only one that gets to decide what it is, and you’re the only one that gets to make decisions. Everyone else can have an opinion, but it’s your decision because at the end of the day, you have to be happy with it. Yeah, and just take every step for what it’s worth and find the meeting whether it’s right then or later. But just it’ll work and it’s the path will happen how it’s supposed to happen for you. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:04:51  Tell me, Brent, are you willing to. I mean, I’m guessing I know the answer to this, but, like, are you willing if somebody wanted to reach out to you as an advocate, as somebody to, you know, as a resource, as somebody to ask questions to.

Katy Ripp 01:05:04  Are you willing? To do that? And if so, how can they find you?

Brent Landrum 01:05:08  Absolutely. I would love to further the conversation, to be a resource, to be an advocate, whatever you need. Absolutely. Email or phone is the best. I don’t know if you want me to provide that or you’ll provide it within a link. What works best for you?

Katy Ripp 01:05:21  Yeah, we are just for like privacy issues. Will just probably put it in our show notes. So if you want to connect with Brent, we will put all of that in our show notes. We’ll put his information there. And you could always reach out to me to. And I’ll get you in touch with Brent. I talk to him.

Brent Landrum 01:05:36  Yeah I would.

Katy Ripp 01:05:37  Love it almost.

Katy Ripp 01:05:38  Daily basis.

Brent Landrum 01:05:40  I know when I don’t hear from you, I get worried.

Katy Ripp 01:05:43  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:05:43  Right, I know right. And if you need a keylock. Brent’s your guy.

Katy Ripp 01:05:47  Hey, I’m.

Brent Landrum 01:05:48  Talk to me. Let’s talk banking.

Katy Ripp 01:05:51  Brent, this is so amazing.

Katy Ripp 01:05:53  Thank you.

Katy Ripp 01:05:53  So much. Oh, I love this.

Brent Landrum 01:05:54  I’m so happy to be a part of this. And I’m very honored that I Am I the first male to be on this podcast?

Katy Ripp 01:06:00  Second.

Katy Ripp 01:06:01  Okay. Okay.

Brent Landrum 01:06:02  Second place. Hey, there we go. That counts for something, I mean.

Katy Ripp 01:06:06  So I think that’s amazing. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 01:06:09  No, I I’m so honored to be a part of this. The things that you do are truly inspirational, and the stories to share are just great. And so, yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:06:17  I started this.

Katy Ripp 01:06:18  Out. You know, I started this like hashtag actually I can with the idea that, you know, it would be a lot of like, well, I don’t know, like, I don’t know what I thought it would be. I didn’t think that I would have a surrogacy conversation. But the more I thought about, I was like, oh my God, this fits right in, right? Like, fuck yes, actually, you can do this too, right?

Katy Ripp 01:06:37  Yeah, yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:06:37  So many things out there that people are doing right now that are just like, even in the simplest form, are just blowing my mind, right? Like, I mean, this is not simple, I realize. But like, there’s other ways to have family, like in all the, the simplest things that we do in life, right? Like shelter, food, water, kids, you know, like all those kind of finances, like all those kind of like Wheel of Life things. There’s a million different ways to do each one of those things. And we have this like, you know, like a circle with all these pipes. It’s like, this is how we should do it. Yeah. If you are a white female in 2024, this is how you should fucking do it. And you should do it perfectly and you should do it this way. And this is the only way to do it. If you are a gay man in 2024, this is the way you should do it and this is the only way there is.

Katy Ripp 01:07:30  And then there’s people out there just fucking killing it in a hundred different ways, on a hundred different levels and saying fuck off to societal norms. And it doesn’t have to be like, I keep telling people to like, you don’t have to blow up your life to do this shit now. You don’t have to, like, quit your family and move to Bali in order to be a yoga instructor. You can just like.

Katy Ripp 01:07:53  Flip on.

Katy Ripp 01:07:54  Your camera and start teaching yoga, and somebody on YouTube will watch. Like, there’s just so many ways to do things that if we could just like. To your point, let’s just own who we are and how we’re doing things and put ourselves first. There’s just like no way to live life to the fullest if you don’t put yourself first. That’s just.

Brent Landrum 01:08:18  Yeah. And, you know, do it your way and don’t say I’m sorry. And yeah, for the rest of us, support those and lift those up that are doing it their way and talk about it.

Brent Landrum 01:08:31  Just talk about it. So many of these things are everybody’s going through it. So why can’t we just work and talk about it. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:08:38  You know. Right. And I think.

Brent Landrum 01:08:40  If you have an issue get out of the way. Get out of my life.

Katy Ripp 01:08:43  The more we like, take things out from underneath the bed and strip the shame off of them, it’s all of a sudden you’re like, oh, well, I guess this isn’t that really big of a deal because a million other people are having the same exact issue.

Katy Ripp 01:08:55  Yeah. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 01:08:56  And the good we could do if we just all got together and talk.

Katy Ripp 01:08:59  I know.

Brent Landrum 01:09:00  Yeah, it’d be amazing.

Katy Ripp 01:09:02  I know.

Katy Ripp 01:09:03  Well, this is a good start.

Katy Ripp 01:09:04  So.

Katy Ripp 01:09:05  Yes. Thank you.

Brent Landrum 01:09:06  Thank you. Even if one person hears my story and takes something. We’ve done our jobs. And. Yeah, down the road, if you want to dive in further to the other pieces, I’d be more than happy. So I would.

Katy Ripp 01:09:17  Love that, because I think that there’s like a whole nother like part two to this of like, what’s it like raising a child for three of their first three years? And like, what conversations are you looking for? You know.

Katy Ripp 01:09:30  Well, yeah, I mean, I can’t wait. This is so great. Yeah.

Brent Landrum 01:09:34  Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah. Anything you say the word. Thanks, Brad.

Katy Ripp 01:09:41  And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at Katy Ripp dot com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Katy Ripp 01:10:22  Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember, #ActuallyICan.