Nina Caviggiola  00:00:00  We can do anything. But the thing is, can you challenge yourself enough to believe that you’re worthy, that you can do it? Especially for women? It’s so much deeper that you actually have to do that mental work. It’s in your mind. Dig a little bit deeper, like where actually are you getting stuck?

Katy Ripp 00:00:21  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defying what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your true self? Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie.

Katy Ripp 00:01:07  You’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go! I’m so excited to have you. 

Nina Caviggiola  00:01:24 I’m excited to be here. I’m excited to chat. I love the topic. 

Katy Ripp 00:01:29  I have so many topics and so many things. Yeah. So I’m going to kind of give you the the floor. Yeah. Obviously the name of the podcast is hashtag. Actually I can so this is more of like a fuck you. Yes, I can do this right. Actually, I can do this, I did it. Watch me. I mean, obviously, I think you’re such an inspiration, but it’s hard to be this person, right? Like, it’s hard to be you. I’m guessing right to hear it from other people. And I’m sure you hear it a lot. But then there’s, like the other side to all of this too. So I’d love to get into, first of all, just your story, like how you got here, because that’s a story in and of itself, right? How you got here.

Katy Ripp 00:02:10  How like, I know you were a nurse, so how that even came to be. And then how did you get to where you are now? Which, by the way, when we met, I think you had like 300,000 followers, which I was like, dang, girl, that is like insane. And then I look today it was like 573,000. I’m like, that’s almost a million people. That’s crazy.

Nina Caviggiola  00:02:33  Yeah, it’s crazy to me. It doesn’t feel real. It doesn’t feel like I have. I mean, I’ve combined all my socials, I have over a million and it just doesn’t feel like that. My space feels very intimate to me. Yes, it feels very close knit. The conversations I have privately with the people that are following me are just so intimate, so that it doesn’t feel big, you know, it doesn’t feel that big to me. And then when people say hi to me, if they see me out, it feels weird because I don’t feel like I’m anything special.

Nina Caviggiola  00:03:07  I don’t feel I’m anything big and I’m not. I’m just as normal girl that’s willing to be vulnerable and show up as the raw version that I am. And yeah, so it’s crazy to think how that I have this huge community, but it feels so small.

Katy Ripp 00:03:26  So I think we also have no idea how many people a million people is. Right. Like somebody said this to me one time, like, do you know how long it would take you to count to a million and all? There’s 1,000,000 seconds in 12 days. A billion is 33 years. Wow. Right. Like we don’t know the difference between that, right? Like it’s just like we hear, like, billionaire or millionaire and. And you just don’t even know what that means. It’s like we can’t wrap our heads around it. I’m totally fangirling over you. But like not from a space of followers, from a space of I love everything you put out to the world, right? Like the mental health aspect of this is so important to be sharing with people that can relate to you and that it’s okay to be not okay.

Katy Ripp 00:04:18  Is that one of the things that has been like the biggest motivator for you?

Nina Caviggiola  00:04:23  Mental health wasn’t really anything that was even in the forefront of my mind when I first started sharing on social media. So the way it all started for me. So like you said, I am a nurse and that was my dream job. That was my dream profession and I wanted to do everything with it. I wanted to go on and get my nurse practitioner. I wanted to keep like, I love school, I love education, I love learning, I’m kind of like a geek in that sense. I just love learning and turns out. Side note I’m finding out in therapy that that’s also like a part of my like, toxic anxiety because I constantly need to have validation of what? Yeah, you’re raising your hand. You have the same. Yeah. Yeah. So like it’s a good thing I love to learn and I love to be educated, but it also my need for validation masks a lot of my issues with mental health.

Nina Caviggiola  00:05:21  But anyways, so I’m a nurse by trade and I graduated from there. I went straight from high school to nursing school. I, you know, did the traditional college route. I was the first person in my family immediate and extended to ever go to college. And I’m a first generation immigrant.

Katy Ripp 00:05:39  Yeah. I read in your Bible. You came here in 1998. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:05:43  Well, where were.

Katy Ripp 00:05:43  You born or what? How old were you when you got here? How about that?

Nina Caviggiola  00:05:46  Ten I was ten.

Katy Ripp 00:05:48  Wow.

Nina Caviggiola  00:05:49  Yeah, I was ten when I came to the US. If you want to go that far back, we can. So I’m a refugee of war. I was born in Bosnia. And for everyone listening, the war that was happening in Bosnia is very similar to what’s happening in Ukraine right now. Like the people are being displaced. And in Bosnia, it was very it was a very religion and political type war. And my mom was displaced with my brother and I.

Nina Caviggiola  00:06:18  We lived in refugee camps. We were hostages at one point. I don’t remember it. Like I don’t have like actual visual memories of any of this. And my therapist says it’s probably because I, you know, I blocked it out.

Katy Ripp 00:06:33  Your brain is your friend. And it was like, you know, we’re not gonna we’re not going to give that to you.

Nina Caviggiola  00:06:37  Yeah, but, you know, my mom tells me stories. But we fled to Germany, lived in Germany in a refugee camp. And then when the war was over, quote unquote, they were sending everybody back home. And the only way you could stay in Germany is if you had somehow obtained a residency or citizenship. In that meantime. We lived in Germany for like seven ish years, and we had nowhere to go. So my mom applied for American residency. It was like a year long process. You know, we had to go through all these interviews and application process, and we had to go to the doctor. It was like this huge thing.

Nina Caviggiola  00:07:19  You can’t just like, come to America and live in America if you’re going to like, be a resident legally. So we got our residency, we got our green cards.

Katy Ripp 00:07:28  How did you get here?

Nina Caviggiola  00:07:30  We flew. So we flew from Germany with one suitcase. We left everything behind. And there was a program in Chicago, the refugee Relief program. And you had to be sponsored by a family. And the family that sponsored us are my cousins that are there like very distinct once removed, like, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:07:54  Yeah, but.

Nina Caviggiola  00:07:55  They were only like in their 20s. But him and his wife sponsored us and they helped us get an apartment. So we got a studio. We had like a studio apartment in the South Side of Chicago. My mom and nobody spoke. We didn’t speak English.

Katy Ripp 00:08:10  How old was your brother?

Nina Caviggiola  00:08:11  He was like eight.

Katy Ripp 00:08:13  Oh my goodness.

Nina Caviggiola  00:08:14  Yeah. And my mom had through this program, they find you a job. And so she was like a housekeeper or like she worked for a program.

Nina Caviggiola  00:08:22  And they also require you to learn English. So obviously we would learn it in school. And my mom had to take classes. And so my mom meant the teacher of her English class. After about a year of learning English and getting her driver’s license and all this stuff like rebates alone. Yeah, single mom.

Katy Ripp 00:08:43  This is.

Nina Caviggiola  00:08:44  Insane. I know she’s wild. Some of the stuff that she went through. I mean, I also.

Katy Ripp 00:08:49  Love her, right? Like I’ve watched every single fucking video with her on it. And I love her so much.

Nina Caviggiola  00:08:54  Yeah, she’s like one of the strongest people that I know. She was my age, maybe a couple years younger than I am right now with two kids. No. Yeah. She was about my age, two kids fleeing countries left and right. And then we were sponsored. So we lived in kind of a shitty area of Chicago, and my mom just didn’t want that for us. So we were sponsored by a church in Janesville, Wisconsin, and they sponsored us to move there.

Nina Caviggiola  00:09:21  And they got us an apartment and a car and a job. They put my mom through school. So my mom’s education didn’t count in America. So she like, was this very well educated woman back in Europe. And she got put through school. She became a CNA. Yeah. And she did all that. I went through school. I went to school for CNA at age 16. I got a job as a CNA and then obviously catching you up. I went to nursing school in Madison at Edgewood College, and it was like the coolest, best experience of my life. I loved it, and I love, love being a nurse. I worked at the VA hospital in Madison, and I felt like that was a very like, full circle moment for me because America helped us so much. And I know there’s a lot of there’s a lot of really like a lot of negative things about our country. Right now, we’re in an election year and there’s always something to complain about. But to me, like America saved my life and America gave me a life that I would have never had, it gave me opportunities that I would never have.

Nina Caviggiola  00:10:30  And it continues to do so. So I have this, like completely different perspective of where I live and how I live compared to when we visit our family. Like life is so different over in Eastern Europe. So I felt that working at the VA was a full circle moment, because I got to take care of America’s most vulnerable veterans who like, in a roundabout way, helped save my life, you know? So I just love, love, love, loved working at the VA and worked there for 14 years. 18 years. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:11:03  Why do you must have been so young?

Nina Caviggiola  00:11:05  I was like, I think I was like 19 when I started there. Wow.

Katy Ripp 00:11:10  Well, thank you for your service because I’m going to end up in a VA hospital someday.

Nina Caviggiola  00:11:15  Are you your.

Katy Ripp 00:11:16  Veteran? I am, I didn’t know that. Yes, I.

Nina Caviggiola  00:11:19  Was in.

Katy Ripp 00:11:19  Your service. Yeah. You know, it was a lifetime ago, right? I went in in 2002 and was over in Kuwait, in Iraq in 2003.

Katy Ripp 00:11:29  And then. Yeah. And then came home and, you know, had babies and got out. But, you know, it’s interesting to hear you say that because sometimes I if I have a weird, like, feeling around being a veteran, like people thank me for my service all the time. And it’s a very like sweet. Like people are actually grateful. But there’s also like a lot of opinions about it, right. Like how political it can be. And I was in an aviation unit. So like we flew around VIPs and shit, you know, we weren’t like doing any combat or anything. But to be in a in Kuwait, in Iraq and see kids like living in tents and there’s all these camps and it’s a very different world. And it was like a lifetime ago. But I appreciate you saying that because it’s sometimes hard to be a veteran. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:12:16  Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I think the general public, before I worked at the VA, I had no idea about anything about veterans and what they went through and what they saw.

Nina Caviggiola  00:12:27  And I saw very, very many different generations of veterans World War Two, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, and even just like present day, like everyone has their own stuff. And I think that at the end of the day, we’re all just human and we’re all just trying to make it work. And I think veterans are just held to such a standard because of serving our country and whatnot. But I cannot say enough amazing things about that job and the things that I learned and the people that I met. I mean, I could go on and on. But so 2020 came around. So in the midst of working as a nurse, I’ve always been a creative person. I’ve always had a blog, like I had a blog in high school, like when blogs weren’t even really a thing. I had a blog, I love art, I love creativity, I love entertaining people. I love making people like, feel happy and connected. And that’s just always been who I am. And in 2014, I think it was, I started an Instagram account to share.

Nina Caviggiola  00:13:39  My husband and I had just bought our first home. We weren’t even married. We were just dating. I actually bought the house. He just moved it with me, and we bought our home and we were doing all kinds of renovations, and I started sharing on social media about our renovations and the DIY projects, and it just kind of took off, and it was really easy to take off in social media in 2014 because it was new. I’m actually listening.

Katy Ripp 00:14:03  Also, remind the listeners, this is ten fucking years ago.

Nina Caviggiola  00:14:07  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:14:08  That’s crazy. Ten years. That is such a long time.

Nina Caviggiola  00:14:13  But it feels like yesterday. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:14:15  And this. Well, right. Also it does feel like yesterday. But also we get into this. Well I can just do it tomorrow or I expect to be successful overnight. Right. Like we forget that it’s taken ten years for you to get here, right? Just crazy.

Nina Caviggiola  00:14:30  Yeah. Yeah. It is crazy to think that. And my success didn’t come right away either.

Nina Caviggiola  00:14:36  My success with social media didn’t come right away as far as financial success.

Katy Ripp 00:14:40  So I really the intention behind it.

Nina Caviggiola  00:14:42  Right. No, no, no, my intention was just to like share our projects. And then people were like, you can get some free stuff. And I was like, oh my god, free stuff, I take it. So I, I got some free stuff, you know, like occasional like free Etsy shop things, whatever. And I’m so grateful to those opportunities and then social media. So have you heard of the book The Anxious Generation?

Katy Ripp 00:15:05  No, but now I’m writing it. I’m writing it down.

Nina Caviggiola  00:15:09  I highly recommend everyone listening should listen to that book. It’s about the Gen Z generation and any generations to come who are on social media and have cell phones or tablets or whatnot, and they talk about the rewiring of our children’s childhood started happening in 2010 when the selfie camera came around, because then everything became about you and how you look in your life and what you share.

Nina Caviggiola  00:15:35  So by the time I was on social media. The selfie cam was already out. And then this is where it really took a turn for me in 2015 or 14 or 15 ish is when Instagram Stories came, and that’s when you could really show video like real time.

Katy Ripp 00:15:53  That long ago.

Nina Caviggiola  00:15:55  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:15:56  Really old right?

Nina Caviggiola  00:15:57  But I remember like I was sharing on social media before stories were a thing. It was literally just pictures. Nobody could hear your voice or see your face ever. Like you just showed pictures.

Katy Ripp 00:16:06  How much you’ve learned. Right.

Nina Caviggiola  00:16:09  So that’s when things really took off for me because I was able to show my like personality and things behind the scenes. And they really took off for me. And then I was getting married and I got pregnant. And when I got pregnant and started sharing that side of life and motherhood and my content shifted, and then it shifted again because I developed postpartum depression and anxiety. And it was then that I really started sharing mental health stuff. And again, I was never really sharing any of this for like profit.

Nina Caviggiola  00:16:44  You know, I wasn’t like, I’m going to make money, so I’m going to share this. It was just generally like, is anyone else feeling this? And it just became this huge thing about motherhood and mental health and parenting and yeah, so that’s that. And then in 2019, I was like, maybe. So in that time between 2015 and 2019, I had like very few paid opportunities. And they were like low paid opportunities. But to me, like extra money is extra money. 2019 I was like male nursing, right? Yes. Yep. Still working full time as a nurse. And so there’s two ways to make money or there’s multiple ways to make money on social media now. But back then it was through brand partnerships and affiliate linking and brand partnerships back then weren’t that big because brands didn’t really yet see the value in influencers. But affiliate linking was basically you share an affiliate link and you can make a commission off that link. So my affiliate link income was like a few thousand a month, and I was like, this is crazy.

Nina Caviggiola  00:17:52  Like, if I could replace my nursing income, like I can do both and then we can like live our dream, like we can make money to like pay off. My biggest goal was to pay off student loans. And then I really wanted to help my mom financially, and I wanted to help my husband pay off a student loan. You know, like I had all these dreams of just getting out of debt. And so 2019 came around and I was like, I’m going to start taking this more serious. So I did, and I started posting more consistently. I got a brand manager. So a brand manager basically helps me get brand deals. And then they take a 20% cut from that deal.

Katy Ripp 00:18:29  Is that like an agent? Kind of yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:18:31  Yeah, it’s like an agent. Is that an.

Katy Ripp 00:18:33  Employee of yours or somebody, like out in the world.

Nina Caviggiola  00:18:36  So it’s a contractor. So I have a contract with them. It’s an agency. I have a contract with them. How do you.

Katy Ripp 00:18:43  Even know to do that, Nina?

Nina Caviggiola  00:18:45  It just kind of felt like. I think all of us just kind of talk amongst each other in the space, okay? And I was living it as it was evolving, so it wasn’t like something that was already there. And I sort it out. It was kind of like, hey, you know, it happened. I got an email once from an agency that was like, we have a partnership opportunity, we can represent you. And I was like, okay, like, yeah, let’s do it right. And since then I’ve had a couple different agents and they technically work for me technically. Like I can say, like, I don’t like, you know, but the one I currently have is very like they do everything for me, like legal contracts, everything. And we text every day, all day. It’s a very like intimate relationship because if I make money, they make money? Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:19:33  Of course.

Nina Caviggiola  00:19:34  So as they should. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:19:35  So that happened in 2019. And then 2020 came around and it was awful. Nursing was awful. I would go I would be driving into work like having a panic attack because you just didn’t know what you were going to see. You didn’t know how many people were going to die that day, like, you didn’t know you were gonna die. Like we didn’t know anything about what Covid could do to you yet. So, like, I mean, it was awful. And in that time, right, as Covid started, so it started March was when we shut down and in April I had a miscarriage. So I had a miscarriage. And I had like working through it in our unit, in our emergency room. And it was just really, really hard mentally. A lot of people struggled mentally at the morale. Staff morale went down and this was like nationwide, you know, this was just general and nursing because you’re just like as a nurse, you just feel like you’re kind of dumped on.

Nina Caviggiola  00:20:35  And then there’s people like out there saying Covid is fake as you’re watching people die. So that was really hard for me mentally. And I decided to at that point, I already had matched my nursing income with social media, and I actually more so, like I was making more than my nursing income and I was just holding on to nursing because I just love nursing. Yeah. And after my miscarriage and after just the morale and how Covid kind of ruined things for me, I decided that I was going to cut back on nursing. So I cut back like very little bit. I went from full time to point eight, so I was like, yeah, basically still full time, same. And I cut back. And then in 20 2020, between 2021 and 2022, I quadrupled my nursing income. It was like insane on social media. I mean, more people were spending time online, more people were stuck at home and business and social media was just blooming. And then I ended up cutting down even more like I was working one day a week as a nurse.

Nina Caviggiola  00:21:42  And finally, after taking on way too much work on social media and then working as a nurse, I honestly would still work as a nurse if I could, but I think the demand for my current job in social media is just so high that it was really hard for me to balance it, and my husband made a good point. He was like, it’s not really worth your mental health and like, you can always go back and whatnot. So as of February 2024, I stopped working as a nurse at the oh, you.

Katy Ripp 00:22:14  Were still working a day a week until February of this year.

Nina Caviggiola  00:22:18  Yeah, I have issues. I have like attachment issues and like, this is the thing.

Katy Ripp 00:22:24  Like Nina it’s fine.

Nina Caviggiola  00:22:25  Yeah, I know the whole point of this is like, I know I can, I can do it. But the thing is, it’s not that my issue is and I think I’m speaking for a lot of women here. It’s not that like, you can’t do the thing. It’s training yourself to believe that you can like mentally, right? It’s not like, I know I could do it, I know I could work, I know I could make this work, but it’s convincing myself that I’m worthy and it’s convincing myself that I have value.

Nina Caviggiola  00:22:55  Yeah. And to be fair, to be fully honest here, I’m still not 100% convinced. Like, I still every day I’m like, did I make the right decision? And it’s not that I regret leaving nursing. I don’t regret leaving nursing. I miss it, of course, but the freedom I have with this job is just right now with me having little kids and honestly, the financial freedom and just everything. Like it’s a no brainer, right? But it’s the fact that I just worry that I made the right decision as far as do I bring enough value into people’s lives as I did when I was a nurse?

Katy Ripp 00:23:33  That’s so fascinating.

Nina Caviggiola  00:23:35  Logically, like I know that I do like of course my logical brain says, yes, you do. You’re changing lives, you’re doing amazing things. But like emotionally, I’m unable to like, give myself that. I’m able to say it out loud, but I’m unable to feel it. I’m unable to feel that I’m still worthy and valuable in this space as a business owner versus someone that was nursing.

Nina Caviggiola  00:24:01  It’s such a like such a tricky thing to navigate.

Katy Ripp 00:24:04  I have so much respect for you even saying that out loud, because I would imagine that most people that see you from a 30,000 foot view is like, what does she have to worry about? Right? Like, or that there’s no such thing as imposter syndrome when you get to a certain level. But like you said before, like those are just numbers. You can’t really wrap your head around it, but the worthiness and the value piece of that, or feeling that the bottom is going to fucking fall out, right? Like, I mean, I’m sure that you have like, you know, residual income or whatever, but like if you weren’t raised like that or you have money stories or you have trauma in your past, those limiting beliefs don’t just fucking go away. I’m sure that can feel very vulnerable and very like insecure. And to feel like you’re like a value piece and like, not worthy. I think every I mean, I feel like it all the time.

Katy Ripp 00:24:59  Like, what the fuck am I doing out here? What business do I have doing this? Right? And I wasn’t a nurse or a teacher or. But there’s lots of people out there leaving really amazing, you know, give back jobs to do something. And yes, like you said, you’re still giving back in a totally different way but doesn’t match. And when you feel like it’s mismatched, it just feels different. So thank you for saying that out loud. I feel like you’re so honest, and you have probably said that a number of times, but to say it here, where people are, you know, of course it’s like hashtag actually I can well, yes, from a far away place, you can do anything you want until you get into it. And then all of a sudden you’re like, oh my God, I’m going to actually quit this job. Like I’m tethered to this job and it feels safe and it feels secure. I did it for years at my gym job.

Katy Ripp 00:25:48  I was still running three other businesses and still had a full time job at A and an athletic club, and I just felt like, oh my God, I can’t leave this. This is my secure, like nice little paycheck. Even though I was making triple that. Right. Like it just it’s a real party win.

Nina Caviggiola  00:26:02  Yeah I think that you hit it on the head with the money. There’s a lot of money trauma and a lot of money scarcity mindset that I have because of how I grew up and because of not having any money. So for me, no matter how much money I have, I could have $1 million right in front of my face and I still would be afraid that that wasn’t good enough, and it would be taken away from me at any given moment, because all my life, that’s what it was. My home was taken away from me all the time. My family was taken away from me and we didn’t have money, food. We didn’t have food. So like that scarcity mindset is so hard.

Nina Caviggiola  00:26:41  But I also want to add that as women, I think that we are taught to be comfortable with what we have, and we are taught and told that we shouldn’t want more. So for me to believe that I’m only worthy as a nurse because that is what I should do. And I love being a nurse. I love taking care of people and saving lives. I love that, but I’m still stuck in that mindset of like, but am I still worthy to be doing business in a business that I never had business in? That’s the thought that I’m constantly battling. Because if it was a man, if it was a man that was like, I’m going to go become an entrepreneur, Sure I’m going to leave this bedside nursing job and become an entrepreneur. He would get a pat on the back. Whereas a woman we are taught to believe like, am I still worthy? Am I doing enough? Am I still valuable as the woman that I am in a more powerful role?

Katy Ripp 00:27:40  Yeah, and I think we get in trouble then, right? Because then we’re like, well, I’m going to do all of the fucking things because I have to be productive and I have to be worthy if I’m going to do all this stuff.

Katy Ripp 00:27:50  One of the things I like to tell my clients right now is like the things that you can do with money, right? Like the good that you can do with money when we are like responsible and good caretaking, creative, resourceful, whole people, the things that we can do with the money that we make is priceless, right? Like you can turn around like you. You think you make a difference at a bedside. You could buy a fucking hospital, right? Like. Or you could pay for everybody’s treatment if that’s what you wanted to do. But in order to do that, you have to make a lot of money, right? So it’s okay to make money. I just I have my own fucking money stories. Let’s be real, right?

Nina Caviggiola  00:28:34  I have, we all do. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:28:36  Of money stories. I was at a workshop this past week with seven very highly ambitious women, and the workshop was about a money mindset. And my first question to them was, what’s your first money memory? And they all wrote down their first money memory, and all of them cried, right? Like all of them had some sort of memory about money, that the emotion was so close to the top that it just poured out, like, why do we have these things? And so and it takes a lot of work to get there.

Katy Ripp 00:29:08  It takes a lot of work and like peeling back all the layers of this to leave a nursing job or leave a teaching job or leave a any kind of job to pursue something that isn’t necessarily the norm. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:29:24  I do think that I love the hashtag. I can because we can write, we can do anything. But the thing is, can you challenge yourself enough to believe that you’re worthy, that you can do it? I think it’s so much deeper, especially for women. It’s so much deeper that you actually have to do that mental work. Like, why are you stuck? What is making you feel stuck? It’s not that you can’t. Like you told me at the beginning about your friend. It’s not that you can’t make a real. It’s not that you don’t know how to work a camera. It’s not that you don’t know how to get a brand deal. It’s not any of that. Because that you can watch a million YouTube videos and learn it in a second, right? It’s in your mind.

Nina Caviggiola  00:30:09  Dig a little bit deeper. Like where actually are you getting stuck? Because for me, this is something I’m working on in therapy. For me, I’m getting stuck because I believe that everyone is worthy. I believe that everyone is deserving of grace, but I have yet to allow myself to have grace and feel that worthiness and like I fight for it every day. But it’s something that I constantly have to work on. So my thought is like, I can work for that, I can work for those emotional needs, or I can work for those emotional changes so that I can do the things right.

Katy Ripp 00:30:54  Yeah, it’s just so much deeper than like, yes, I can do that. Well, of course we can all do it, right. Like there’s that saying out there. I think, like if knowledge was all we needed, we’d all be rich and thin, right? Like, knowledge isn’t enough, right? We have to go through, like, why aren’t we doing it? Why aren’t we taking the next step to do that thing? because we can all do anything right.

Katy Ripp 00:31:18  There’s examples of it all over the world of people doing it before you, or maybe not, but doing something with a significant courage level. But what’s holding us back? And I do totally agree. I think for most women it’s a worthiness or a like, do I feel valuable in this space? Am I giving enough? Again, the answer logically, is yes, but every other like that’s not enough. That part is not enough. Yes, I can do it is not enough.

Nina Caviggiola  00:31:49  Yeah, I literally have in my phone I literally have a photo album that’s called Nice Messages, and I screenshot those messages that are like, you’ve changed my life, you’ve changed my perspective, you’ve made me a better mom. You’ve helped me seek therapy. You’ve like, I have all these like messages that are so deep and intimate that I literally put in that folder, because I have to remind myself, like I’m not. Just because there is such a surface level to the job that I do. Like there’s affiliate links in the brands and like the money that I make.

Nina Caviggiola  00:32:26  But to me, what’s more important is the connections that I make. And what’s more important to me is that I’m able to help somebody feel more confident in themselves, in any aspect in their life, their relationship, their parenting, their motherhood, their body, whatever it is, I want people to feel more confident. And I always I’m there’s this constant battle because in my job, success for brands and affiliates is measured by numbers. and July and August are very slow months. Right. So like, I’ve been really feeling down, my numbers are down. I mean, across the board for everybody they are. But when you have brands that are like, well, why is the ROI down this month? And then I beat myself up for it. And then I feel like I have to push more sales. So it’s a constant balancing act for me too, because I there are definitely I’ve met people in this business, in this industry that are like strictly like, this is my job. I only share links, I only do business deals.

Nina Caviggiola  00:33:34  But that’s not my intention at all. That’s like, well, I think so.

Katy Ripp 00:33:38  Why so many people relate to you is basically because you’re like a community builder with a side of affiliate. Yeah, right. Like you have built up this amazing community that you happen to do the other stuff for it. That’s how I feel. You put yourself out like I’m here to build community, and the rest of it is just like the cherry on top. Yeah. Instead of the other way around. Right. Like that’s why I’m speaking. I can’t speak for your other followers, but I can speak for myself that like, I watch every single one. But it’s because I think you’re talking to me and you actually care. And then, like, sometimes I buy your bra. Right. Maybe we shouldn’t tell your brand affiliates but like mostly right. Like I. And then there’s, I’m sure that there’s a ton of other people that go to your socials or your other sites specifically because you, they like what you offer.

Katy Ripp 00:34:37  Right. Like they like the products that you offer. I mean, there’s you have so many like demographics, right, revenue streams and all of these things. But to me it never feels like you’re pushing product. It feels like you’re building community first and then it just like, this is the cool side piece.

Nina Caviggiola  00:34:58  Yeah. No, that’s thank you for saying that. That’s my goal and that’s my intention. But again, it’s like a fine balancing act because there are days where I’m just like exhausted and I don’t feel like talking to anybody. Yeah. You know, I don’t feel like talking to anybody. And there are days where those days where I don’t feel like talking to anybody. I maybe have an ad that I has to go live that day, because it is at the end of the day, the way that my business is, it is a business, right? Like, at first of all, it wasn’t a business to begin with. It was me just trying to build a communication community.

Nina Caviggiola  00:35:39  And I still want that and I still strive for that. But at the end of the day, like I do have contracts, I have brand partners and it gets really sticky. Sometimes. I only take the brand deals in partnerships that I feel truly resonate and align with me as a person in my brand, but like some days I’m like, I don’t feel like I’m not in a peppy mood. I’m not in the mood to. I’m in a shitty place. But I have to post this ad because yeah, that’s my contract.

Katy Ripp 00:36:09  Because that’s my fucking job. All right.

Nina Caviggiola  00:36:11  Yeah. And we all have that, like, in all jobs, like, I know you, you are in the business of empowering women and helping women and, like, building confidence just like I am. I mean, maybe you can vouch for this. Like, I’m sure you have days where you’re like, feel like shit about yourself and don’t feel confident, but you have to go tell someone else to be confident.

Katy Ripp 00:36:28  Yes, of course, like I try to practice what I preach, but otherwise, like I also look to other people to inspire me, right? Because like, we’re just not out here, like, with no problems and right things. Just fucking amazing all the time. This brings up a question I had for you. I specifically like me. I know how much work this takes, right? Like this isn’t just fucking posting reels and hoping for like throwing enough shit at the wall and seeing what sticks, right? There’s strategy behind this, and there’s money that you pay out for people and there’s like, it is a job B and the bigger it gets, the more legitimate it gets, right? Like, I would imagine that. And correct me if I’m wrong and we can totally cut this. If this is not actually the truth, I would imagine, as you’ve grown, that somebody along the way was like, is that a fucking job? Like, is that even a job? Or like, yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:37:27  So there have been people that have like mocked my job or asked what it is. And even to this day, I like when someone asks me what I do, I just say I’m self-employed. I work in social media marketing. I just say I work in marketing because.

Katy Ripp 00:37:41  Do you call yourself an influencer?

Nina Caviggiola  00:37:43  I don’t know, like yes and no. I do feel that we all this is so cheesy, but I genuinely believe that we all have influence on people in one way or another.

Katy Ripp 00:37:54  Social media would not exist if it was not true. We all have influence, right?

Nina Caviggiola  00:38:00  And I think that.

Katy Ripp 00:38:01  You’re just a professional one.

Nina Caviggiola  00:38:03  I just get paid. I just feel that it is. It’s gotten a bad rap, and I don’t know why. I mean, some people say content creator. Influencer? Yeah. I just usually if someone asks me in like a professional setting, I just say social media marketing because that is what I do. I do marketing, but I do believe that my influence on people’s lives is beyond marketing.

Nina Caviggiola  00:38:28  I do believe that I have an influence on people to want to be better. I mean, I have literal I have a whole fucking album in my phone of pictures, like people telling me, right, so.

Katy Ripp 00:38:41  Like I do.

Nina Caviggiola  00:38:42  So this is where the like, need for validation. Like I have data that proves that my job is valuable to people. But yeah, people have like not directly to me, but I’ve seen like people say like, how is this a job? This is dumb. And you know, I do really good. Like I stay off of any of the gossip sites. I know there’s Reddit. I stay off of all that and I just don’t. I don’t even look, I don’t Google myself. I have a very head forward mindset, like I’m doing the best that I can. For me, I’m doing the best that I can for my family and my employees, and I will fuck up. I will say the wrong thing. I will make mistakes. I will change my mind.

Nina Caviggiola  00:39:26  I tell my kids this all the time, it’s okay to change your mind. It is okay to change your mind if you feel that you made the wrong decision. Because my son was like, well, you used to let me have the tablet every day and now it’s only on the weekends and I don’t like that. And I said, I know you don’t like it. And mommy made a choice to change her mind because I learned some new things about tablets. And, you know, so, like, I believe that people will always have something shady to say. And this always brings me back to like a woman in this business is always going to get hated on a man in this business is not going to get hated on there either. Like smart there comedian. They’re valuable there. This they’re that. But as women it’s really hard for some people. And I do think that a lot of like the people that do hate on influencers, I do think a lot of that that stems from like their own inner shame or embarrassment or jealousy or like they’re just not able to be happy with for somebody else.

Nina Caviggiola  00:40:27  Like when you played that message for me that your friend sent, like, that is the kindest thing ever. Like to know that people are talking about me in a positive light behind my back is like protecting my name when I’m not there. Like, that is the biggest and best gift anyone can give me, and that’s who I hope to be as a person, you know, because you can always find something shitty. You can always like people will say, oh.

Katy Ripp 00:40:51  But you can also as equally or more find something good. Well, all the time. The influencer part of that, the where you said a lot of people call themselves content creators or whatever. Is that kind of the among the I’m going to call you guys influencers, but among the industry because like, I’m technically a life coach, right? Like I’m technically a coach, but somewhere along the line, life coach got a bad rap like the pit bulls of the 90s, right? Like for whatever reason, we just life coaches never been a great term.

Katy Ripp 00:41:25  And in my coaching circles, people are like, oh, I would never call myself a life coach, which, I mean, I get it. But I also like, for some reason, find it a like personal crusade to correct it. I don’t know why it’s not my job to do that, but I’m curious if like, everybody feels that way because it got a bad rap. So we don’t call ourselves that. We just like all call ourselves whatever it feels like. Good to call us at the time if that’s a like yeah, pretty common.

Nina Caviggiola  00:41:55  Yeah. It’s a common discussion amongst people in the space. Some people will say influencer, some people will say content creator. I think that generally most people don’t call themselves influencers. I don’t know. I don’t care if people call me an influencer and I can call myself that. Again, like I said before, I do think that we all have influence, and if we can be a positive influence, then why is that a negative thing? Yeah, I think that you as a life coach, you can technically be called an influencer too.

Nina Caviggiola  00:42:26  You’re influencing people to find the best versions of themselves. I just yeah. So I don’t know. That’s just. Yeah, people are always gonna be negative. And again, like, influencing is such a new I mean and there’s so many different types of influencing. There’s literally people who are like, there’s people like me who have taken this role and made it a business. This is a business. Now I have seven employees. I you know, I.

Katy Ripp 00:42:51  Really.

Nina Caviggiola  00:42:52  Yeah, I have a whole team. I have, you know, it’s a whole business. Like it’s crazy to think. And then there’s people who are maybe in the infancy stages and are just like sharing funny dances and videos. Like, I think that’s why the term influencers get such a bad rap, because like, you have the ones that are kind of like mocking the influencers, and then you have the ones that are just doing it for fun and like maybe sharing fun, cute videos. And that’s oftentimes how it starts. And then you have the ones who are like, who were on a TV show like The Bachelor and now they’re influencer.

Nina Caviggiola  00:43:23  You know, there’s such a wide range of influencers. And yeah, I think that it’s going to always have a bad rap because it is essentially at the end of the day, it’s like a entertainment business. Yeah. At the end of the day.

Katy Ripp 00:43:37  Tell me about the business side of it. Like when did you say to yourself, like, fuck, I can’t do this by myself and started looking for help because I’m guessing you tried to do all things still? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right. I that’s the other thing about female entrepreneurs, right? Like we all think that, oh, we have to be the bookkeeper and the janitor and the accountant and the videographer and the photographer and the copywriter and the website designer in the. You know, I mean, I could go on and on and on.

Nina Caviggiola  00:44:09  I mean, just like moms, right? Like, we think we have to do it all, and it’s not okay to it’s God forbid you have a housekeeper, God forbid, like a soul keeper.

Katy Ripp 00:44:18  And somebody that does my laundry.

Nina Caviggiola  00:44:20  Good. Send them my.

Katy Ripp 00:44:22  Way. Her name is Yolanda. She’s amazing. I’m happy to send her your way. My house cleaner was actually like, hey, I have somebody that does laundry. Do you think maybe you should have somebody? I was.

Nina Caviggiola  00:44:33  Like, yeah, like.

Katy Ripp 00:44:34  Yes, I do.

Nina Caviggiola  00:44:35  And there’s this, like, urge, this urge that we have to be like, oh.

Katy Ripp 00:44:41  Oh, do you know how many people are like, you have somebody do your fucking laundry? I’m like, yes. Isn’t it amazing? Like, I.

Nina Caviggiola  00:44:47  Even have to rewire my own brain to like, not judge. Because how much more can you do when you have help? So just to answer your question and it’ll lead up to this. So I probably needed help years ago. My husband is a more like logical thinking, and he’s a man like he’s not expected to do it all. So he’s the more logical thinking. And he thought I needed help a long time ago.

Nina Caviggiola  00:45:10  So I hired part time, very part time, like 5 to 10 hours a week. Help. And the only reason I even hired help this was in 2019 or 18, was because she was, like, persistent in my email. It was someone that was a follower. She was persistent in email and I was like, girl, I don’t need help right now. She’s like, well, let me know when you do. I’m here. Like, here’s my resume, blah blah, blah. So then in January of that year, I was like, fine, like, let’s try it out now. She’s now my full time CEO. She like runs the whole she’s like the brains behind the business, but.

Katy Ripp 00:45:45  Good for her. Yeah. That’s Cassidy. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:45:49  So I hired Cassidy very part time, and it was never an intention to hire anyone full time. Like like I said, this business that I’m running, I come from zero business knowledge. I come from zero. Like I’m a nurse.

Katy Ripp 00:46:05  Like nurses don’t know shit about money in business.

Nina Caviggiola  00:46:07  Like if you ask any accountant or any like financial advisor, they’ll tell you like doctors and nurses are some of the worst money people because they don’t know anything.

Katy Ripp 00:46:16  All they care about is helping people. It’s not their wheelhouse, right? Like I’m caring for people. You figure the rest out. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:46:23  So I just have never had a business mindset. I have a business personality. I always say, like, I could sell a pencil, you know, that’s just who I am, is I’m just a passionate. Anyways, so I hired Cassidy, and once she came on full time. Well, actually, once she came on part time every year after hiring her, my business doubled in income in revenue like doubled every year. And it’s like insane how much my business has grown because of Cassidy. She has taken so much off my plate. And since her, we’ve hired two more assistants. And then I have an editor and then I have a manager.

Nina Caviggiola  00:47:04  So. And then Tom, I employ my husband too. He could probably do more, but he. And this is where it gets really tricky. Like, he does so much for our family that people wouldn’t think like, how is that a job? But like, he takes care of a lot of things, like he cooks. I don’t like how he cleans. So I still clean, but he like, does the cooking. He takes care of the kids like he organizes like the sports and all that. So he does a lot of the things that traditionally women are expected to do. And then he also does all of my business bookkeeping, and he pays my employees accounting stuff. So, like he does all that one time he forgot to pay our nanny and I was so pissed at him. So like, it is still a small business. We’re still figuring it out, But yeah, and people used to tell me this all the time, and I’m sure you’ve heard this and I’m sure you’ve said this to people once you hire help, even if you don’t feel that you want to pay someone for it, your business blooms.

Nina Caviggiola  00:48:04  It grows like you get so much freedom. I think people go into having their own business and you know this. You’ve owned a lot of businesses. You’re going to having your own business and you think like, this is going to be amazing. I’m going to have all this freedom. I know it’s the opposite. You literally invest your entire self and time and being into this business, and then once you’re able to get help, then you’re supposed to back off a little bit, right? You’re supposed to. I just told my mom the other day, she owns a business, by the way, speaking of my mom, earlier, she opened up her own home health business, and she takes care of people in their homes. And she’s got 12 employees, and it’s amazing. I know I love it. She’s like a true, like, amazing American dream story. But she has 12 employees and she pays them. But then she also works herself and she, her sister is coming from Europe to visit.

Nina Caviggiola  00:48:53  And I was like, did you take time off? She’s like, yeah, I did a little bit, but I’m not going to have any pay. I was like, mom, why are you not paying yourself? Well, I’m not working. Yes you are. You write the schedule, you do the bookkeeping, you run a business like she’s still in that mindset. Like I have to be physically doing the work to be making money. And like I said, like, those are all things that you don’t think about.

Katy Ripp 00:49:16  Like on that subject, I tell people all the time, like, if you’re not careful, all you do is buy yourself a job. Yeah, and really expensive fucking job, right? Like I bought a wine bar and then ended up bartending all the time, and I was like, I just bought a super expensive bartending job. I’m done. I’m no longer event coordinating. I’m not bartending. And so I started spending some of the money to hire employees, which there’s a whole for me, the value piece in hiring local, amazing staff is like it’s part of it that fills my cup, right? Like that part of it I love.

Katy Ripp 00:49:56  So when I started and what I call it is buying my time back. So like, I buy my freedom back every single time I hire an employee, I buy more freedom for myself to not be there. And I was doing it all because I can doesn’t mean I should write like I was bookkeeping. I was doing all the website. I was doing all my social media management. I’ll never forget I hired Maria to do my social media management. She also reached out to me on Instagram and was like, do you need help? And I was like, sort of offended, sorry, Mariah. It was sort of offended that I was like, what’s wrong with my social media? Like, I’m doing it myself. It’s totally fine, right? Like, no, I don’t need any fucking help. And then all of a sudden I looked at myself and I was, I’m such an impulsive poster, right? Like I can post something, but I have to be there and like, that’s just how I work.

Katy Ripp 00:50:45  I can’t like, plan stuff out and schedule. I’ve got 42 courses to show me how to do that, that I can’t, I just can’t. And finally I was like, you know what? I think I’m just gonna hire? How much does it how much does it cost to hire her? I can still do all the impulsive stuff, but like, there’s a strategy behind this. And when I hired her, all of a sudden it was like, oh, my God, I have never have to worry about social media. I only do like the fun stuff. Yeah. And my husband was like, don’t you do that for a living? Like for other people, like social media manage. And I was like, yeah, but I’m not doing it anymore for us. Yeah, but I bought some of that time back and I needed it. And so when you’re talking about my bottom line goes up every time I buy an employee, I mean, I buy my time back. I mean, that sounds horrible, but I also pay them well and I’m happy to pay them well.

Katy Ripp 00:51:32  I’m happy to like, give them my money so I can be at home with my alpacas. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:51:37  One thing that I feel guilty this is something that I’m working on currently is I feel guilty when I have time, like I’m like, all my other employees are working. Why shouldn’t I be working? So, like, on days where I have, like slower days, I feel like I need to fill that time with stuff because, I mean, when you’re on your own business, you can always find work. Yeah, it’s never like in nursing. I would clock in and out and that was it. Especially in the emergency room, you see the patient and then they’re gone. Like it’s never like a continuous thing. Whereas with this business it’s a continuous thing. You’re constantly thinking, you’re constantly like rising for real.

Katy Ripp 00:52:15  Oh it’s done.

Nina Caviggiola  00:52:17  Oh my God, I need. So does your lady actually put your laundry away too?

Katy Ripp 00:52:21  Oh yeah. She and she. And once every two weeks she organizes all the closets and drawers.

Katy Ripp 00:52:25  Oh, my God, that’s it is the best $20 an hour I spend. It’s amazing. And I felt super guilty about it for a really long time. Right. I was like, isn’t this my job? Like, shouldn’t I be doing this? But I also run for other businesses right now.

Nina Caviggiola  00:52:42  What is that? What is that guilt. And I think over that.

Katy Ripp 00:52:46  Plus, I have the same exact feeling you do that if I’m home sitting with my alpacas and my businesses are still open, I feel guilty. I still feel guilty. I don’t know that I’ll ever get over it. I feel like I should be down there making lattes. That is not my zone of genius, by the way. I can make a mean latte, but it is not my zone of genius. It’s not where I make the money, right? Like I make $7 an hour doing that after I have to pay myself the fucking Social Security and Medicare. Right? So, like, it doesn’t make sense for me to do that.

Katy Ripp 00:53:19  Yet I still feel guilty. I still feel guilty when Yolanda comes. And what ends up happening is, like everybody, when they have a cleaning lady, they cleaned before the cleaning lady. Right? I refuse to do like Yolanda does that for me. So my cleaning lady comes every other week and Yolanda just picks up and does all of the stuff to get ready for the cleaning lady. All the things that I. But it’s like the only it’s really the only thing I give myself. And I don’t even give it to myself. Right. Like my everybody else in the family also benefits. It’s not like I’m going to get, you know, I have, like, a personal masseuse coming in here every third day. It’s like she’s just doing laundry. But I still feel guilty about it.

Nina Caviggiola  00:54:03  Yeah. Growing up, we had nothing like my mom was. All the things. I was all the things. So, like, now you just almost feel like, well, if my mom did it, why can’t I do it?

Katy Ripp 00:54:13  Yeah, well, because you’re always working.

Katy Ripp 00:54:15  So. I mean, your mom is working too, but, like, also, we can. It’s just. Are we worthy of it? Yeah. Right. Like, are we actually worthy of, like, why shouldn’t I be doing 42,000 different things? Because somehow we got to a place where it’s like a badge of honor to be overwhelmed and burned out, like, yeah, no, I’m not. I’m done with that.

Nina Caviggiola  00:54:38  Yeah, but, you know, the growth that I’ve personally had in delegating and hiring and asking for help in the last year and a half has been significant, like even to the point, like business aside, like I will email my husband. So like, we want our kids to be in swim lessons and I’m like, oh, I don’t have time. Like I can’t deal with. I literally sent the email to my husband, said, please handle this period by like please handle like I. It feels so weird, but also empowering to just be like, pass it on, pass it on to your husband.

Nina Caviggiola  00:55:13  And like, my husband is very receptive to that stuff. Like he’ll do anything. And I used to be so annoyed that I had to ask, like I wanted him just to think of it himself. But I’m like, you know what? If it’s it, I’m just going to send it to him and he can handle it and we can have a discussion about it if we need to. But it has been very freeing to be able to delegate, and it’s something that I’ve really gotten good at. And I again.

Katy Ripp 00:55:37  It’s kind of addictive.

Nina Caviggiola  00:55:39  It is. And like when.

Katy Ripp 00:55:40  We get more people in here.

Nina Caviggiola  00:55:42  Yeah, like.

Katy Ripp 00:55:44  Can I hire someone to dust to my house?

Nina Caviggiola  00:55:46  Like what? But no, it really is. I think even when you think of it in a very simple manner, you don’t have to be hiring seven employees, you know, however many employees you have, however many I have. Like if you’re just starting out, like just delegate, ask for help. And it doesn’t have to be a full time employee.

Nina Caviggiola  00:56:03  Like there’s also for people listening who are like, I really want to get more help and I can’t financially cut it. Like there are interns everywhere. Like I right now, our nanny, she’s in college and her friends are looking literally for free internships to do stuff, so why not like, why not ask? My nanny is like half time nanny. Half time assistant. Why not like find word of mouth, ask people. And that’s kind of how I did it.

Katy Ripp 00:56:29  One of the things that I’ve started saying to myself also for helping people. So anybody listening out here that’s like, well, I can’t afford help change it and say, how can I afford help? How can I afford it? Right? Like there are ways to afford help. There are ways like you can give up some stuff, or you can go out and make more money to afford help. And a lot of that help helps you afford it. So I mean it’s a little bit backwards but yeah I don’t want to like I know we’re on a sort of a time crunch and I don’t want to disrupt your schedule.

Katy Ripp 00:57:02  So I have a couple of questions. One is I definitely want you to talk about your event in October, and I’m just going to give you the reins on that because I can’t wait to hear, like, all the things. What’s next for you? What’s the future look like for Nina?

Nina Caviggiola  00:57:15  like, I hate this question because you.

Katy Ripp 00:57:17  Don’t have to answer.

Nina Caviggiola  00:57:18  I love like I like. It’s a great question. I love the question, but like, I hate it at the same time because it makes me uncomfortable. Because I wish I knew, like, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:57:26  How far do you look ahead? Do you think like, do you feel like you look ahead to tomorrow or. Yeah, we we look older or.

Nina Caviggiola  00:57:35  it depends like in personal life. We look ahead by like 2 to 5 years and personal life like, I don’t know, my dream is just to like, give my kids the childhood to travel. Like travel, lots of traveling. We have a buy land and build a house in the next 5 to 10 years, probably closer to ten because we love our neighborhood.

Nina Caviggiola  00:57:56  Yeah. So personally, that’s what’s next for me there. Nothing really super exciting. But I also, I saw this quote the other day and I can’t quote it exactly. It was like, you’re not going to be as successful looking ahead and dreaming ahead until you’re happy with the version of yourself you are now. And I think that’s where I am right now. Like, I’m trying to be happy with the version of myself. Now I might look like this super successful, put together person on the outside and like, I’m running this awesome business and I’m so proud of it. But like, I have a lot of work to do as far as giving myself grace and as far as like giving value to who I am and what I do, I’m still like. Those are things I’m still working on as far as business where I’m going. This year was kind of a busy year for me. We started a nonprofit organization called Nurture a Foundation, and that was a dream of mine for years. I wanted to help families who are low income or who are in need.

Nina Caviggiola  00:58:53  And so this year was kind of taken up by that. And we haven’t really thought too much ahead, but we’re hopefully going to be doing more confidence and empowerment events for women. Some speaking, I would love to do more speaking events. I know you were there when I did my first speaking event and I would, I think I.

Katy Ripp 00:59:12  Went like you if it makes you feel any better.

Nina Caviggiola  00:59:13  So like I talked for.

Katy Ripp 00:59:15  Like 45 minutes, they gave us.

Nina Caviggiola  00:59:17  Like 15 minutes and oh my god. So yeah, I got to get better at that. And business wise, I’m stuck in that sense because I don’t like naturally in this influencer space, people will like start a brand. Like that’s kind of the next step.

Katy Ripp 00:59:32  Interesting. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  00:59:33  Okay. I don’t know how passionate I feel about that because that’s a whole. Then you have to run a whole nother business. Yeah, right. My husband and I did start a business last year for real estate. So we have a real estate business and we own a few properties.

Nina Caviggiola  00:59:51  So that’s kind of like in the infancy stages. We’re trying to, like, grow our money in other places and not grown on what I do. Yeah. So yeah, that’s kind of we’re hopefully growing that hopefully growing the confidence space. And I don’t know yet what’s next. I think currently I’m just going to focus on myself and building my own confidence up.

Katy Ripp 01:00:12  Right. Well I’ll be there with you if that makes you feel any better.

Nina Caviggiola  01:00:15  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:00:16  What about your event?

Nina Caviggiola  01:00:18  My event? So we’re having our first confidence in her event. So it’s an event for women? A lot of it is catered to moms, but any woman is welcome to help build confidence in yourself. It’s going to be October 17th in Mount Horeb, Wisconsin. It sold out in seven minutes when I posted about it, so it’s already sold out. I’m sorry for anyone listening that wants to come, but it is a non-profit fundraising event so you’ll get a lot of like confidence stuff there. We’re going to have tons of vendors like pampering, self care type stuff.

Nina Caviggiola  01:00:53  I have basically every brand that I’ve ever worked with has donated for goodie bags, they’ve donated for raffles. We have like an entire like luxury Mexico trip being given away. We have hundreds and hundreds of dollars being given away for spending on shopping. We have Botox, we have tattoos. I mean, it’s going to be like a whole this is going to be big. And I’m excited. We only charge $25 for entry fee, and I’m hoping that this will help women feel like there’s a community out there. And we’re going to have a panel of speakers talking about confidence. We’re going to have a keynote speaker talking about mental health and women and motherhood. And then I’m going to speak. Hopefully I won’t go over my time. But yeah, there’s going to be a DJ. There’s going to be, oh my God, we’re going to offer professional headshot like it’s I’m hoping that women just feel leave feeling just empowered and worthy of who they are in their life.

Katy Ripp 01:01:52  You think you’ll do it every year?

Nina Caviggiola  01:01:54  Honestly, it was really a lot of work.

Katy Ripp 01:01:57  Yeah, it’s so much.

Nina Caviggiola  01:01:58  Work this entire basically since January, we’ve been working on this and it’s now August and Cassidy has done everything. Cassidy and my manager well.

Katy Ripp 01:02:09  So those things from the outside look like, oh my God, this is so cool. And it is amazing. But like the amount of work that goes into shit like that is next level.

Nina Caviggiola  01:02:19  Yeah. And I think that people have written to me and say they want this every year, and I think that we don’t have enough of these things. Maybe you and I can do one together.

Katy Ripp 01:02:26  I.

Nina Caviggiola  01:02:27  I feel like when you do it with other people, it’s like easier.

Katy Ripp 01:02:30  But yeah, I spread it out a little bit.

Nina Caviggiola  01:02:32  I had like major imposter syndrome. I was like, no one’s going to come, no one’s going to buy a ticket. And like, it sold out in seven minutes. And then we opened more spots up and that sold out in two minutes. So it’s just.

Katy Ripp 01:02:46  Such a testament to how hungry people are for connection.

Nina Caviggiola  01:02:51  Yes, yes. Especially women and moms.

Katy Ripp 01:02:53  People are like kind of done with the virtual space. That’s what I’ve discovered. Like I’ve done a bunch of virtual stuff and all my in-person stuff is way more attended. It’s just that was actually one of the questions is, do you ever feel lonely? Like isolated?

Nina Caviggiola  01:03:10  Yeah, all the time I do. I have Cassidy here a lot now, and that really helps me because in nursing you are in a nurse’s station with a bunch of people, and you’re always talking, constantly socializing. And it’s just amazing to get away. Like in that job. It’s amazing to get away from your house. It’s amazing to get away from your kids and your husband, and you’re in this space of like, mutuals, like everybody feels that way. Like, oh, my kids were driving me nuts. Or like I, you know, whereas now I’m in my house where I have this constant need and desire and guilt if I’m not cleaning or if I’m not organizing or and then I don’t leave my house very often.

Nina Caviggiola  01:03:57  That’s another thing I need to work on, is I’ve become such a homebody. I don’t like leaving my house, ever. I barely go anywhere. So yes, it gets very lonely, but I’m kind of at peace with it. I don’t know, I used to be such a social person. I had to have plans all the time, and now I’m like, I kind of love this. But yeah, it is lonely.

Katy Ripp 01:04:20  Yeah, I know for me, like, the healthier I got and the more I healed my own, like inner child and my myself. I liked being with myself a lot more. And so I didn’t need other people to fill that in as much. And so now I’m like this homebody that I’m like, oh, I if I never have to leave here at all, ever. It would be amazing.

Nina Caviggiola  01:04:42  That’s such it like, I know.

Katy Ripp 01:04:44  But like, I just, I thought I was an extrovert all these years because it would just like, masked all the other stuff.

Katy Ripp 01:04:51  And for me, all of a sudden I was like, well, I didn’t like my own company. And now that I like my own company, I kind of like to be introverted and be home. And like, I still love the social part, and I like to be on social media and do all of the things and be at events and stuff. But I still get some energy being alone too, and I think that’s for me, it was like such a healing. It was a testament to like actually doing the work and healing some stuff.

Nina Caviggiola  01:05:14  So yeah, that’s a really good way to put it. Like when you finally get comfortable with being with yourself, because I think we are often uncomfortable being with ourselves in the chaos because there’s a constant chaos going on. There’s. There are such high expectations of mothers and women, and once it quiets down, you don’t know what to do with yourself. Like, what are my hobbies? Like, I don’t even know what my hobbies are.

Katy Ripp 01:05:39  I should be doing all this shit like, well, and also the chaos is, like, kind of comfortable, right? Like it feels like, oh, I can fix this problem.

Katy Ripp 01:05:47  So I’m useful and I’m valuable and I’m worthy and all of the things I could talk for about that for fucking.

Nina Caviggiola  01:05:53  Weeks, that’s like a whole nother EP.

Katy Ripp 01:05:54  Oh, that was you do not have an office.

Nina Caviggiola  01:05:57  I mean, you have an office.

Katy Ripp 01:05:58  In your house, but like, you leave to go to an office.

Nina Caviggiola  01:06:01  No.

Katy Ripp 01:06:02  Has that ever been a thought?

Nina Caviggiola  01:06:03  My husband thinks it would be a good idea, but, like, I would have to then drag all my clothes. Like, I do a lot of stuff with clothes and like a lot of my. I want my content to feel like natural, and I want it to feel like I’m just in my house showing you, you know? So I don’t want that. Yeah, maybe one day, depending on where the business. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:06:22  You might end up with like a really super cute Airbnb that you just go to for a retreat. Yeah, like that’s a good idea. I’m going to the office. Yeah, yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  01:06:31  That would be nice. We I mean, we have a commercial property I could go over to, but I don’t know, I like being in my house and.

Katy Ripp 01:06:39  Yeah, me too, I love it. I also love my office. My office is pretty badass, but right now it’s covered in a bunch of shit from the ice cream shop. Oh my God, I have so many questions that I should have asked you that I just never got to. But maybe I can have you back on.

Nina Caviggiola  01:06:53  Yeah, I’d love to. I’d love to come back. It feels like such a easy, natural conversation.

Katy Ripp 01:06:59  Oh, I just love you. I mean, I just.

Nina Caviggiola  01:07:01  Like, I.

Katy Ripp 01:07:02  Watch everything, and I, like, seek you out. I just I’m so glad we met. I’m so glad my path crossed with yours. I just feel like sometimes people I will not. Sometimes all the time. People cross each other’s path for a reason. And I just like I’m always rooting for you.

Katy Ripp 01:07:19  I know you don’t probably need it, but. Or maybe after this conversation you do. But I just I’m always rooting for you. I just feel like you are just such a bright, shining light in so many ways. And so keep doing what you’re doing. And I just at least two of us love you, me and my friend Jana.

Nina Caviggiola  01:07:35  Keller, I said hi, I.

Katy Ripp 01:07:37  Sure will, she will be fangirling all over that. I just feel like there were so many important things in there. Like, of course not everybody feels great. Like we just, you know, do it. Sometimes you have to do it scared, sometimes you have to do it bloated. Sometimes you have to do it, you know. Yeah. All the ways. And sometimes you just say no, right?

Nina Caviggiola  01:07:57  Yeah. I think that the biggest takeaway for yes I can is that you can do it if you’re willing to believe in yourself and you can say no and you can ask for help. Yeah.

Nina Caviggiola  01:08:10  Those are the things that I think we miss a lot is saying no and asking for help. And you can do it because I’ve built an entire multi-million dollar business doing those two things, even though it took me a long time. To believe that I can do it. You don’t have to wait as long as me, I promise. Asking for help is, oh.

Katy Ripp 01:08:31  It’s so good.

Nina Caviggiola  01:08:32  Game changer.

Katy Ripp 01:08:33  Yeah, it’s so good. I’m not going to leave Yolanda’s name for the laundry, because I’m scared that if I give her name out too much, she’ll leave me. So Yolanda has a special place here. But yes, you can have somebody else do your laundry. Yeah, my mother hates it, but whatever.

Nina Caviggiola  01:08:51  Well, she’s also, like, probably in that mindset, you know, women back when our moms were raising kids, they didn’t have to do all the things that we have to do now.

Katy Ripp 01:09:00  No, they.

Nina Caviggiola  01:09:01  Weren’t expected to have a business and be a boss, babe, but also be a cook and a cleaner and raise children and do crafts with their children and make sure their kids are in sports and make sure you’re traveling, but also make sure your marriage is healthy.

Nina Caviggiola  01:09:15  Like they didn’t have to do all that. They literally just had to be married. And, you know, I’m not downplaying, but like the expectation in our society is so different. Like, I’m sure they had it hard, but they had to cook, clean and be there for their husbands. Now we have to do a million more things plus that.

Katy Ripp 01:09:33  Yeah. And also work full time and be multimillionaires.

Nina Caviggiola  01:09:37  Yes.

Katy Ripp 01:09:37  And not feel bad about any of it?

Nina Caviggiola  01:09:40  No. Yeah. Be a man. Be a man.

Katy Ripp 01:09:43  Be a man. We’re also birth children.

Nina Caviggiola  01:09:46  Yes. And cook and clean.

Katy Ripp 01:09:48  Cook and clean and do all the things. Oh, Nina, thank you so much. I appreciate this so much. I’m so excited to have talked to you. I would talk to you every day if I could.

Nina Caviggiola  01:09:59  Thank you so much for having me, Katy. This was seriously so amazing. I would love to be back.

Katy Ripp 01:10:04  Yes. Thank you so much. And that’s a wrap on today’s episode.

Katy Ripp 01:10:11  I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at Katy Ripp dot com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember #ActuallyICan.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:00:00  You can do whatever you want to do. You have one life. Don’t waste your time like you just don’t know how long you have. Don’t waste your time doing something that you’re miserable doing.

Katy Ripp 00:00:15  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to hashtag. Actually I can the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defining what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie. You’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms.

Katy Ripp 00:01:08  Ready to dive in? Let’s go. Okay, well, I read your story over the weekend, and I’m fascinated by it, partly because, well, first of all, I literally just had a teacher reach out to me, and she just listened to EMS, you know, she left her teaching job for some reason. I’m surrounded by teachers leaving, teaching jobs to do shit. I don’t know why, and nurses, teachers and nurses. So I just had an interview with Nina Caviggalio. I think that’s how you say her last name. She left her nursing job and now she’s a crazy, huge influencer. And then, like, I know other people that were nurses and have left their job to go and be a creative and a bunch of teachers. So like my general manager at Crossroads and Creekside was a special education teacher and was basically getting hit at work every day. And I was like, well, I can’t promise you a ton of money, but I won’t hit you. And then like a number of other people.

Katy Ripp 00:02:12  And so one of my friends is like a professional organizer, and she started her own business a couple years ago, but she left her teaching job. So, like, there’s this exodus of amazing teachers out there, which. Ding ding ding. We should really be, like paying attention to all of these teachers leaving to go and pursue something that either is going to double their income or is like the environment is so toxic and so bad, they’re willing to take a huge risk to leave. I think there’s some like major lessons in here. And then your comment, the other teachers feeling stuck, right? Like how many teachers do you know that are just like, don’t have an entrepreneurial mind, what else are they going to do? Right. Like it’s kind of like those. Well, I think they call them golden handcuffs in the corporate world. I think they they’re just handcuffs in the education world. Yeah, I like the handcuffs. Oh, yeah. Like your 401 K and your benefits and all of these, your summers off and all of these things.

Katy Ripp 00:03:15  So I’m fascinated by your story, and I’d love to hear the way you wrote it out was amazing, but I’d love for you to, like, just start. Plus, you got married at, like, 21 and 20. That’s crazy.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:03:26  Yeah. I mean, yes, you hit the nail right on the head with like, the mass exodus. I think I was like part of that big wave. And I think it’s still happening with teachers. It was post-pandemic, like, I think the environment and a lot of schools, from what I hear, just nationwide, got significantly worse, to the point where teachers were like, I’m at my breaking point. I need to do something different, right? So yeah, I was part of that wave.

Katy Ripp 00:03:51  Yeah. Thank God that people decided to do something else productive rather than like I’m stuck. I don’t know what to do and take a mental health checkout, right? Permanent solution to a temporary problem kind of thing. Because I’m guessing there’s some of that.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:04:08  Yeah. And I mean, I think of like my graduating class of college and I think half or more than half have left teaching already, and it’s only been several years, you know, so it’s oh yeah, it’s crazy. Yeah. So jumping right in I guess my background. So yeah, my husband and I got married so young. So I was it was a week after my 20th birthday and he was 21. So yeah, we were just babies. And looking back I’m like, who let us get married that early? But it’s kind of the norm here in Utah. So yeah, we were both raised Mormon. So we got married super young and then ended up leaving the church a few years later. So that was a whole big story. Interesting.

Katy Ripp 00:04:51  Yeah. Both of you left the church, I think. Oh wow. That’s a story. So that number itself I’m guessing.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:04:58  Totally. Oh yeah. And I’m totally open to talking about it now. But while we were kind of going through it was pretty tricky.

Katy Ripp 00:05:04  But yeah I mean we’re in Wisconsin. So this is like Catholic capital of the world, right? Which, you know, has its own flair to it, I guess. So, yeah, that’s fascinating to me because I know I and I don’t know much about the Mormon church, to be honest. I know enough, you know, about what I’ve read and what I’ve heard and what I’ve seen, I guess. And I know that’s not all true, right? Like we can take or leave a lot of that, but leaving any religion or having questions about religion is I especially, you know, grew up in a family with that kind of belief system. Could not have been easy. How old were you when you left?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:05:41  I think I was 22, so.

Katy Ripp 00:05:44  Oh, okay. So shortly after you got married?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:05:46  Yeah. Being like, born and raised in Utah is kind of a unique bubble where the majority of people, or it feels like the majority of people you interact with are also of the same belief system.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:05:58  So it’s kind of like this little bubble of everyone believes the same way and things like that, and then it influences cultural norms, like I was saying. So a lot of people get married early or encouraged to start a family right away if you can. So yeah, and I think I mentioned the whole faith transition because I think it kind of influenced my decision to then open my mind about other possibilities with career stuff, because, I mean, my paradigm was shifted with that whole transition and I’m like, oh, there’s a new way I could be thinking about things, which just kind of blew open the door for me to think about other possibilities and different areas of life.

Katy Ripp 00:06:36  So wait, is podcasting because of that?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:06:40  Yeah, because of a whole different range of shifts and beliefs that kind of, throughout my story, have tied back into what I’ve heard and listened to on podcasts. So yeah, it’s all kind of you love it and interconnected for me.

Katy Ripp 00:06:54  So yeah. Tell me about the shift from Mormon to do you have another faith based religion or I.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:07:04  Wouldn’t say like an organized religion now, but I would say I like to believe that there’s a higher power of some kind, but I’m open to anything now that I like. I was so set on one way of thinking my whole life now I’m like, well, oh, it could be this, or I’m open to something else. Just open to it all. Oh, how fascinating.

Katy Ripp 00:07:23  And your husband was on board. Like, that’s always, you know, like it’s one thing to do something for yourself, right? But like a whole nother shift when you’re bringing somebody along or they’re taking you along or you’re going together. Yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:07:38  Yeah. I think what I’ve seen in friends and just other people, it’s such a common thing for couples to separate because of that difference in belief and yeah. During that time, I was really grateful that we kind of were able to explore things together. And it was hard, even like we were both open to exploring things together. But there’s just that unraveling of belief that your belief can be different on certain things than the other person at different times.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:08:05  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:08:05  So yeah, that’s a lot. I mean, that is fascinating, but it must have played into so many other things in your life so far. It is so important, right? Like when you change your belief system into something that like I mean, I would imagine some people like change your belief system, which closes their mind, right? As they get older, they, you know, their minds closed further and further and become a little bit more tunneled. But like, it’s almost like yours opened up, right?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:08:33  Yeah. I’m grateful to have had that experience in like expanding to now I’m like, oh, I don’t want to ever, like definitively say, this is my belief because I just am now open to everything, which I think has been such a blessing in the long run, because now I’m. I want to hear everyone’s perspective because I might not know what they know. So yeah. So it’s been awesome to have. Yeah, it really has been a gift to experience, especially early in my life, to where I’m now like, oh, I want to learn more, and I want to hear more about all different types of perspectives.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:09:06  So which you yeah, actually.

Katy Ripp 00:09:09  Like physically do hear more of everybody’s yes perspectives. That’s literally what you do.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:09:15  Yeah. That’s why I, I just I have the coolest job because I get to hear people’s stories all day. So yeah that’s awesome.

Katy Ripp 00:09:22  That’s really cool. So yeah about the teaching.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:09:25  So yes, in my early 20s, a little before I got married, I had to decide like what I wanted to go into in school. So I had always loved school. Growing up, I was like the textbook teacher’s pet. Like school always came really easy. It was such a fun place. So I had always kind of maybe been interested in teaching. And so of course, like when you’re deciding what you want to do, you choose something that’s like within your realm of possibility. And at that time, when I was early in school, I didn’t know anyone that was like an entrepreneur, let alone in the online space. Like, that was like, I didn’t even know people did that for a living or how to do that or anything like that.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:10:08  So, right.

Katy Ripp 00:10:08  Like I, I think we kind of think of that as like a out there or possibility or for somebody else.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:10:15  Right. Like I had heard of people doing things like social media management or something and thought, oh, that’s cool that they can kind of do their own thing, work from home, have flexibility, things like that. But yeah, it was for someone else. And yeah, so yeah, I chose something that was within my realm of possibility, which teaching is obviously a pretty common profession. So I’ll sounded interesting. So chose that. And I honestly loved my time in the education program. I learned so much, made some awesome friends and like I don’t regret it at all. I like I got to have some awesome experiences just getting to learn about child development and how to teach. And my husband and I got to go to China to teach English and wouldn’t have done that if I wasn’t like pursuing teaching. So a lot of really great things came out of going into teaching.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:11:02  So definitely don’t regret that. But I finished my student teaching kind of right in the middle of Covid times. And then after pandemic started, my first year of teaching.

Katy Ripp 00:11:14  Oh, interesting. Okay. Which is hard to believe. It’s going to be freaking five years, right? Coming up, I know what it feels like week.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:11:24  Oh, I know, so I was super excited to get my first teaching job. I ended up working at the same school I soon taught at, and I soon taught in second grade. And I got a job teaching third grade. So I got to move up with some of the same kids that I had taught that year before. So, so excited about that. And like the summer before going into teaching, I like spent so many hours in my classroom prepping and doing all the things, and in my mind, I was the type of person that I’m like, I will be a teacher forever. Like, I was setting up my classroom in a way that like, I’m going to be here for 30 years.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:12:02  I need all the supplies I need. I have like this awesome classroom library. I had purchased books and had books donated and things like that, gathering all the things. And yeah, I was pretty convinced I was going to be to win it a lifer. Yeah. So school started in August, so I was teaching at a title one school, which means there was a higher percentage of lower income families that we were serving. So a lot of the students in my class had just like really challenging home lives. And of course, you hear about a lot of it. The kids will tell you. And so you kind of know what’s going on. And for a title one school, I had a pretty large class. I had about 30 kids in my class.

Katy Ripp 00:12:43  Which 33rd graders?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:12:46  Yes.

Katy Ripp 00:12:47  Oh my God, yeah. This is why people are leaving and teaching.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:12:53  Yeah, I think it would have been a little bit more manageable with ten less even.

Katy Ripp 00:12:58  But yeah, 30 kids had a pretty 30 kids of gifted kids a lot.

Katy Ripp 00:13:03  Right. But they throw in like troubled home life or whatever. Keep going.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:13:09  So I had about 30 kids and like I said there, they had just really a lot of them sad situations at home. And then I mean kids are kids right. They behave a certain way because they need something. They’re not getting a need met. Of course I believe kids don’t do anything like maliciously. They’re not trying to be crazy or make things hard for you, but they would bring a lot of that just trauma and not getting their needs met and things to school. And so I had just so many crazy Behaviors. And I mean, I had, like you mentioned, with your friend, that was a special ed teacher. Like I would, yeah, get hit like chairs thrown, like just all sorts of crazy, crazy things happening to the point where it was like by October I was burnt out. I’d only been like a few months. And I remember, like, taking the first fall break, I think it was in October.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:14:02  So and I’m like, oh my gosh, I have how many months left of the school year? Like I don’t, how am I going to make it? I mean, I got to the point where I had always been through school and just previous jobs had always been like, I never called in sick, like, you know, just push through if I was feeling under the weather, whatnot. But I got to the point where I was like, it was hard to get out of bed in the morning because I would wake up knowing the chaos that the day would bring, which was kind of my first red flag of like, oh, something’s not right here. Like, this doesn’t feel good to me to not be able to wage a.

Katy Ripp 00:14:38  Place to be right, because it just like it can circle, like in this kind of vicious cycle of like feeling bad that you don’t like, you’re not getting up. And you should be able to do this because other people are doing it and your coworkers are doing it and, you know, whatever.

Katy Ripp 00:14:55  And then it gets into this, like cycle of feeling bad and possibly doing other things to, like, make yourself feel better, which people can go in lots of directions that way. So yeah, that’s a dangerous place to be.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:15:09  Yeah, totally. I would get home from school and like, I have always been like an active person. I love to run and and things. And I would get home at 4 or 5, six and just want to go straight to bed, like, so overstimulated from the day. And I think that’s pretty common if you have a great class or yeah, a challenging class with teachers. But yeah, so I just did not feel like myself. And your first year of teaching. They usually say it’s hard no matter what. So I’m like, okay, it’s probably just my first year anyway, so made it through the fall and then January. I’m still just feeling so burnt out. So I started to kind of ask other teachers that were in my building or from around the area or online, just kind of their experience with teaching and teachers at different stages of their careers, right? New teachers, veteran teachers.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:16:04  And the more I talk to other teachers, realize that there was like a pattern of they would say something along the lines of the system isn’t built to support teachers. And from what I was seeing, it wasn’t really built to support students either. Like, I would just.

Katy Ripp 00:16:20  Teach you this in college, but yeah, seeing you to go to.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:16:24  Right. Yeah. Like I would just fill this poll, like I said, with all my students who had just challenging situations like they needed so much more than to be taught math and reading, like they needed some social skill development, and they needed so much. More than one teacher can give 30 students at a time, and so just needed more support. And I like had this realization of like, the system is not supporting teachers and it’s not supporting students. And from what I hear, like teachers kind of went one of two ways. They either just accepted that the system is broken and just try to make do. So they would either sacrifice their own personal boundaries, like staying long hours to get all their stuff done, or spend their own money, or they either didn’t meet all the expectations.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:17:16  And me, as a classic Type-A personality, I’m like, well, I don’t want to not meet expectations. So yeah, I was burnt out. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:17:26  I mean, you think to yourself too, like when you were saying that, you know, they’re sacrificing their boundaries, but also, don’t you see so often they’re sacrificing their health, right? Like so many teachers are putting all of their well, I mean, literally lives on the line. And then also like giving so much for very little return or a very like I’m sure it’s rewarding at some points, but I’m sure that the rewards are fewer and farther apart than they used to be. And just like then, they’re never putting themselves first, right? Like they’re putting their family first and then they’re putting their students first, and then maybe they get to go next. And yeah, it’s just it’s so hard to watch. Yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:18:09  I became kind of almost like when I started to notice the pattern, I became like almost bitter about it.

Katy Ripp 00:18:16  Like, yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:18:17  The teachers that were awesome and work on top of things and doing well, they would get more work and get delegated more responsibility, like they become a team lead or over the PTA or whatever it was like, because they were awesome. And I also noticed. I mean, there’s a reason why most teachers are women. Like women will put up with like not being appreciated and compensated, I think a lot more than men would. And there’s a reason why teachers are still underpaid and overworked, because they do it for the love of the students, right?

Katy Ripp 00:18:53  Yeah. And it’s hard not to realize that that’s not enough. And you get punished for saying it’s not enough, right? Right. Like, all of a sudden teachers are also persecuted because they’re like, well, shouldn’t it just be rewarding enough to teach the students, excuse me? Like, since when do we have to feel like we are like the only ones that can do that or give up our entire lives for it?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:19:20  Right.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:19:21  And then I started to look at like, there’d be like, funny memes, like just comparing teachers to other jobs of like, okay, this is your job, okay? But now you need to provide all the resources to do your job and work extra hours to be able to do all of the things. And it’s just crazy, right? So it was early spring, like January ish. I started to listen to podcasts of teachers who were leaving, teaching and exploring other career opportunities. And I should have mentioned earlier, but just throughout before this time period, I loved podcasts, started to just listen to podcasts throughout like my faith transition early. Oh, interesting. I had listened to podcasts to help me through different seasons of life and like I said, just opened my eyes to different possibilities and different perspectives and so started to do the same within teaching and hearing stories of other teachers who had left teaching. And there was a podcast that was a teacher career coach that would talk to teachers and interview them about different things that they did with their education, about teaching.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:20:28  So. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:20:29  So you, when do you like to listen to podcasts?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:20:33  Obviously, all day at work. I listen to my client’s podcast.

Katy Ripp 00:20:36  But, yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:20:37  I’ll listen on a walk, so I go, I take my dog on a walk every morning. So definitely then sometimes while I run doing housework, I mean, I am a podcast junkie. I still even like listening to them all day for work. I still listen before and after work like I love them. So okay, driving.

Katy Ripp 00:20:55  I’m always like wonder. I always wonder what where people listen to them because like, I listen to them when I walk or in the car. Yeah, I’m not really gotten in, like listening to them when I’m at home, you know, like with headphones on or whatever, like, well, let’s be real, I don’t do housework, so I don’t need to do that for you. I know. Right. But like occasionally if I’m mowing the lawn or something like that, I will listen.

Katy Ripp 00:21:18  But I’m just always curious, like, where are people listening? Like, are they running or are they, you know, like, what are they doing when they’re listening? And it’s such an interactive active sport pastime. I don’t know exactly what it’s called, but like, it’s such an interactive thing. Like you can do a bunch of things. It’s not like you have to just sit here or like reading a book. You don’t just have to like, sit and read. I’m always find it fascinating to hear and especially like a podcast producer, like, why would you ever listen to another podcast? Because you’re listening all the time, but you’re a true junkie, I love it.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:21:51  Yeah, I totally am. That’s why I’m like, I am in the perfect career for myself, I think because I love them before and still love them. So yeah. So like I said, just started listening to the podcasts, hearing different teachers stories. I came across this podcast about a course creator that helped people get into freelancing.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:22:12  So my eyes were open to like the world of online business and freelancing. And like I mentioned earlier, I had no idea that this world even existed or like that. Someone could get into it, not having a background in business. I never knew it was a possibility for myself and just started to hear different stories. And some of them were even teachers who transition from teaching into freelancing and doing all kinds of different things. So sort of just to learn about that. And it was March of that same school year that I was having such crazy anxiety, like, could hardly get out of bed. And I never in previous jobs or anything had never been the type to like, call in sick. But this one day I’m like, I’m staying home today. So I called in sick and I remember just in the morning I had just so overstimulated as a teacher, I like walk into my living room and sit down on the couch and was just like staring at the wall. And it was like an epiphany that I realized I can either stay in the system and try to fight it and make it work for me, or try to fight and change it, or I can leave.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:23:20  And it was like an epiphany. In one moment I’m like, I’m gonna leave. I’m not gonna go back next year. And at that point, I didn’t know what exactly I was going to do the next year, not returning to teaching. But I just knew, like my health was not the same. I think I was sick that year, like with a cold from like October to April. Like I was a type to never get sick before. And I’m like, this is not feeling right. So yeah, just one day I like made the decision. I am not going back next year. And so that March, I started my business. I enrolled in a course from that podcast host that I listened to and started learning about freelancing and made the goal that if I could replace my teaching income, that I would not go back the next year, you know? So I started working like early mornings before going to school, would start work at like five and then go to school at 830 or whatever time, and then work after school to, to build my business.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:24:22  and I ended up getting some awesome clients. Like, I think it was like that, just deciding, like, this is the direction I’m going to go that like opened the door for like, yeah, things to come in.

Katy Ripp 00:24:33  When you start to make room, it just like all of a sudden, I know. I love that so much.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:24:39  I didn’t know what was going to come, but I knew, like, this is the direction I’m going in and it’s going to work if I just keep taking steps in this direction. So it was totally perfect. The clients that I was able to connect with initially because like I said, I had no experience in the online space, but the people I ended up working with were just some really awesome women in business that were able to, like, mentor me and just let me have so many different experiences doing all different parts of their business, just learning about different things. I was doing admin work and customer service and virtual assistant type work, and then also some creative elements like writing blog posts and and then eventually doing back end of podcast production.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:25:25  So I ended up getting to learn how to do some of the back end of podcast production. And all of a sudden it clicked for me. I’m like, oh my gosh. First of all, I loved listening to podcasts and have been so connected with some of the podcast hosts that I have listened to and have been so transformative for me. And then I’ve ended up hiring some of these people that I’ve listened to because of the relationship that I’ve developed with these podcast hosts, and then working in the back end of some of my clients podcasts, got to see how their podcast was such an asset for their business and client attraction and visibility and content creation and all the things. So it just clicked and I’m like, this is the direction I want to go in. But that took several months of just trying a bunch of different things and not really being totally clear on where I was going, which was scary because I had made the decision to leave teaching and had to tell, like my admin, that I wasn’t coming back.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:26:26  And people would ask like, what are you going to do?

Katy Ripp 00:26:29  What are you going to do? What can you possibly do?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:26:34  Yeah, and like my friends and family, they were obviously supportive, but I’m sure they were like, well, you just went to school for four years for teaching and now you’re going to do what, like. So that was kind of scary. I mean, I didn’t like announce it to the world for a while after because I’m like, it does sound kind of crazy. Like, I told everyone I was going to be a teacher and now I’m not anymore. So yeah, it was definitely scary. But like I said, like, I decided I was going in this direction and didn’t really know where it was going to go and have been like just so pleasantly surprised on what has come my way. Like, I’ve just been able to connect with so many awesome people that I would never have been able to meet, like you and my other clients, who I just get to learn so much from.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:27:21  I would have never been exposed to these different perspectives and possibilities if I hadn’t decided to do something different.

Katy Ripp 00:27:29  So yeah. Do you think that that day in March when you called in sick, do you think that that was really like the precipice, like, this is it?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:27:37  I’m going I think so like it was just I think for so long I had been so busy just doing, doing, doing like, I mean, through school, I had several jobs, like I would just work and go to school and all the things. And then during teaching, you’re obviously so busy with all the expectations that you can’t keep up with it. I had never, like, truly taken a second to sit down and think, like, is this a direction I really want to go and really ask myself and give myself the space to feel what direction was right for me. And I think leaving the church several years before was also kind of, like I mentioned, opened my eyes to, oh, I can think differently.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:28:21  I can change my mind about things. So yeah, but I think it was I’ve.

Katy Ripp 00:28:24  Had the experience of doing it once already, like, and the world did not. You know, the floor did not fall out from underneath you. I’m sure it wasn’t comfortable, but like nobody died because you made a decision for yourself. And, you know, we get into our heads about like all this fear of, like what might happen if I like, what is the admin going to think of me if I don’t come back to school? I’m so lucky to have this job, right? Like we’ve been told that all of our lives, like you’re kind of stuck and sort of like the question, well, what’s the worst that can happen? Right? Like, what is the worst that can happen after this? Well, what’s the best that could happen? So tell me about that. Tell me about like, your day in the life, like compared to your days in teaching, what are your days look like now?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:29:13  I love that question because I vividly remember during teaching, anyone that’s a teacher knows, like your days as a teacher.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:29:21  You’re so overstimulated, like you have a million kids. Like I would hear Mrs. Leavitt, Mrs. Leavitt, like all day. Like you’re so, so overstimulated. I remember telling one of my teachers on my team, like, I am just dreaming about having a job where I can work at home and not talk to anyone unless I want to, and work when I want, and be able to go to the bathroom when I want to. So I remember, like before I started building my business while I was teaching, like having this vision of doing exactly what I’m doing now and what I’ve been thinking like, oh, it makes me emotional because I remember envisioning what I’m doing now and not even knowing what I was going to be doing. Like I said, didn’t know anything about online business, but just took a step in this direction and have now created what was only a vision before. And now I’m like, I get to do this every day. Like I seriously have to pinch myself. Like I mean, teaching my days were like, you wake up, you’re at school by 8:00 or so, and then school starts at nine, and then you have a full day of teaching, and then school gets over at like 330.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:30:34  And then I would usually say to prep until like 6 or 7, you know, just until you can get all our stuff done.

Katy Ripp 00:30:40  Oh my god. Yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:30:42  So it was just a long, long day and Monday through Friday. Right. And then so it ended up being like, I mean, 40 to sometimes 50 hours a week if you were staying late or hours. And now I like have just been so appreciative this summer of like, I’m finally at a place with my business that I’m, I just have the most amazing clients, and I get to wake up and take my dog on a walk. And if I sleep in a little bit, that’s okay. And I get to be at home and have so much more work life balance than when I was gone all day, and not being able to take care of things at home, or run to the doctor when I need to, or whatever it may.

Katy Ripp 00:31:23  Go to the bathroom.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:31:25  Yeah, or go to the bathroom. Yeah, when you need to.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:31:28  But yeah. So get to do client episodes. It doesn’t feel like work. It feels like I just get to hear these awesome stories and get to connect with people and learn all sorts of different perspectives.

Katy Ripp 00:31:40  So you get to be the first. You get to be the first to hear, like all the raw, you know, nitty gritty, the back end stuff. I would always be so nosy if I were you. You know, you’ve been in a and I’m quite a bit older than you, but so, you know, of course I went to 12 years of school and then I worked in a college and I worked in the school again. And so it took me until I was like 25 to be out of the school, like day, you know, the 7:30 a.m. m to 4:00 pm. That’s what your day looks like. And so as I got older and, you know, into jobs that were a little bit more flexible or whatever, I always like struggled with that. It feels like the day starts at 730 and it feels like it should be over at four.

Katy Ripp 00:32:28  But what I realized is that I really can’t do anything after noon, right? Like I’m just my creative juices are gone. I really just don’t have the bandwidth from 12 to 3. But I would always feel so guilty because I’d have that 12 to 3. Like, I don’t have energy to do something, but I feel like I should be doing something because I still have my day until 3 or 330. And now I have children, right? Like I’ve had kids in school for ten years. So I’m back in this like school rotation. So when I went out on my own, I struggled with the schedule. Has that been hard for you to like? I mean, at first it was probably like, well, this is really romantic. I can take my dog for a walk whenever I want, I can do whatever I want, but like I also realize there’s a lot of hours to fill in a day when you’re not wasting half of it. And I don’t mean to say that like teachers are wasting time.

Katy Ripp 00:33:22  That’s not what I mean. But there’s like a lot of chit chat and a lot of like, you know, transitioning from room to room or, you know, just like that weird kind of different time than you have when you’re self-employed, right? Like there’s just a lot eight hours is a lot of hours in a day to work straight through if you’re at home. Right. Have you been able to, like, break that up? Do you need the break? Have you been creative with your schedule or do you what’s that look like for you?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:33:49  Yeah, I will say like it’s a whole different type of problem. Like you said, when you’re working at a normal 9 to 5 or something like that, like you’re there from this time to this time. So there’s no like, should I work this time or should I work this time? Like, you’re just there. So it’s been like a different type of problem, which it’s the best kind of problem to have.

Katy Ripp 00:34:12  But I always say, like people say, well, that’s a good problem to have.

Katy Ripp 00:34:16  I’m like, well, good problems need solutions too. They all need all problems need solutions. It doesn’t matter if they’re good or bad. So yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:34:24  So like my problem was I can either tend to work too much and like not set the boundary of like I need to start this time and end this time. I can just work into the night if I like, get going, you know, or the other end of like of course client work will always get done, but then it’s like, if I need to work on this for my business, it can get done whenever, right? So I don’t feel like doing it today. So I live and die by my Google calendar. So I like to set things up in my calendar of like, this is when I’m going to work, and this is when I’m not going to work, because I think both has been challenging, especially when you work from home and you can work whenever you want to, you can work whenever you want to, and you can not work whenever you want to.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:35:07  So it’s like.

Katy Ripp 00:35:08  That. Freedom is tricky because if you’re not a self-starter, which you diagnosed yourself as type A earlier. But I am not a Type-A personality, so like I have a really hard time. If you give me a deadline, I’m getting it done right before the deadline, right? Like there’s really the fact that I am three episodes ahead right now is fascinating. I mean, like, there’s just like, I don’t understand how I’m here. Like, this is not me. I would be like, oh, Sunday night, you need my next one by the next day. Like, this is huge for me. This is called growth. That’s maturity. But yeah, there’s something to be said about like setting your schedule or having, you know, you get into that zone. And then I think that’s a really good thing. But it can get overwhelming. And when it’s your own business, it’s kind of this, like if you don’t live in an abundance mindset, you’re terrified you’re never going to get another job.

Katy Ripp 00:36:09  And so you can’t, you know, like you have to continue to do more and more and more. One of the points you said before was like, you don’t work on your business, you’re working in your business. And this is like one of the things that I run into, client into, with clients all the time is I have all these things that I need to do for my business or on my business, but I’m working in it all the time that I don’t have time to do that. Right. Like the social media, you know, the marketing, the selling for yourself, the admin work, the bookkeeping, all of the things that like a it can wait until April 14th right before you have to have your taxes done. How much of that has been an issue for you?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:36:53  I would say I will, definitely, especially the summer. Like you mentioned, there are certain things like social media or different things that it’s easy to not do them if they don’t have to be done right away.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:37:05  So like, social media has one of those things where this summer I’m like, I want to spend less time working on my business. And so that’s one of the things that I haven’t done a ton with lately. So I will say it’s like been kind of tricky for me to find the balance of like, oh, I could be doing all of these things. And if I did all the things that were in my brain, I would be working all the time. So it’s definitely finding the balance and like appreciating the time spent not working and counting that as also good and productive. Because if I could like if I let myself, I would work myself to hell. I was burnt out and then hate it. So I’ve had to like, embrace both sides of like it’s okay to maybe be able to do this thing, but choose not to for a time in order to. Like the summer. Social media has been on the back burner so I could yeah, do summer activities which have also been healthy for me in the long run.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:38:05  So definitely it’s a balancing act and it’s still something I’m learning.

Katy Ripp 00:38:09  So I think it’s like laundry. It’ll never, ever be done. I think you’re just like are always struggling with and I don’t know if I’d call it a struggle, but like it’s just always a challenge to be like, well, I could be producing more, right? Like the production part of our lives as women sometimes is just so like, if you’re not producing, then why aren’t you cleaning? Why aren’t you doing laundry? Or why aren’t you gardening? Or why aren’t you making a Pinterest craft? Or right, like, we try to fill our times with all this stuff because we feel like we should be producing something all the time. And one of the things you said before about like being so busy you don’t even know what’s hurting kind of. I was literally, I just had a podcast interview, which you’re going to love right before this, and we were literally talking about giving ourselves enough space. And when you have the space, then you’re all of a sudden you’re like, oh shit.

Katy Ripp 00:39:09  Like looking around like, oh shit. Like, I didn’t even know this was going on. And sometimes, like using being busy or do like filling all your time is just like a coping mechanism so you don’t feel what it feels like to like, oh, like you staring at the wall and being like, nope, this is not for me. Like you didn’t even give yourself. I mean, you didn’t have the chance to even ask yourself that until March. That’s crazy. And some people go their whole lives doing that, right? Like they keep themselves so busy and their kids so busy. It’s like the new find, right? Like, how are you? Busy, but fine. So it’s like this constant sort of coping mechanism of as long as we keep ourselves busy, we don’t have time to listen to the, you know, like intuitive things that come into our brain all the time. That’s right.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:40:01  And I still live like five minutes from the school that I taught at. And I think it’s crazy that I will still drive by once in a while and still see some of the same teachers that I worked with, cars parked there, and they’re the same people that I would talk to that would be just as burnt out and just as sad and all the things that I was, and they’re in that same situation of like they are doing, doing, doing.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:40:28  And they haven’t taken a second to like think of if they could do something different. But I know because I’ve talked to them, I know they’re just as miserable as I was. And like, it’s just crazy to me like to think about where I was and thinking of like doing another year of the same thing. I was like, no, I’m not doing it. And to think of like, maybe I could still be in that same situation and like, yeah, it’s crazy to me, and I’m just grateful that I had the opportunity to look and decide and have the space to do something different.

Katy Ripp 00:41:03  I mean, yes, you had the opportunity, but you gave it to yourself. I mean, nobody said you can leave. Nobody said you can’t. You don’t have to work anymore. Nobody said. I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t sound like anybody said anything to give you the opportunity. You just said, I’m not doing this anymore. It’s not what I want, so I’m doing something else.

Katy Ripp 00:41:26  I mean, talk about living authentically. And just like this is what I’m doing, I. I’m, like, taking care of myself first. You didn’t owe anybody anything. I think we also get into that as teachers or caregivers or nurses or, you know, those sort of nurturing jobs. The no other job is worthy, right? Like you don’t bring as much value like you did with that job, right? Like you were teaching the youth of America, like, am I going to be able to provide value in podcast production, which, by the way, you are.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:42:01  Thank you.

Katy Ripp 00:42:03  Like do you think that there’s some of that like we’re how people like kind of stay stuck there. Maybe they call them rainbow handcuffs then or like fuzzy handcuffs.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:42:13  Yeah. Oh, totally. I remember like when I was in school to be a teacher and talking to other teachers. And they warned me they’re like, don’t go into teaching like some teachers that were like, real about it. And before I started teaching, I’m like, well, they’re cynical, like they must just not like teaching.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:42:32  And then going into it, I realized, oh, like, they have a point in, like, you have a job to support your life. And if it’s not supporting your life, like find something different, like you don’t just work to work. And I mean, I remember thinking when those teachers told me like, don’t go into teaching. I remember thinking, well, that’s the most worthwhile thing I could be doing with my time. Like teaching kids. Like, I can’t think of a better way to spend my life. Here’s your.

Katy Ripp 00:43:03  Fuzzy handcuffs.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:43:04  Yeah, a job is a job. Like you have a job to make money. So, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:43:09  I am in the business of trying to get people to do what actually aligns with their values, right? Like whether that means, you know, doing something as a hobby or changing careers or starting a business or whatever that is. That’s what I kind of think my mission is. But I don’t look at it like a job, right? Like it’s how I make a living.

Katy Ripp 00:43:31  Like I also own other businesses, and that’s how I make a living. But I basically have bought myself a life that I get to do whatever I want with, because that’s how I want to live. I just don’t like nobody’s can cuffing you to a job. They are just jobs. It’s when you get into jobs like ours where we get to inspire somebody else or like send a message to somebody else that they can do it and that it might not be exactly what you think it is, but it’s way better than, like, dreaming about it your whole life. And then sometimes you get into a job, like teaching, where you’ve been dreaming about it your whole life, and then you’re like, oh shit, this is not what I thought it was going to be. And I’ve talked to other entrepreneurs. They get into a business and they’re like, I thought I was just going to like, talk to people in a store. I didn’t know that I was going to have to do all this other stuff.

Katy Ripp 00:44:29  And then they realized, nope, I’m better suited to work for somebody else. That’s fine. Just like own you are. Yeah, yeah.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:44:38  What I’ve loved about the guests that you’ve interviewed and just your message and what you do is like, it’s right up my alley of, like, you can do whatever you want to do. You have one life. Don’t waste your time like you don’t know your episode with Lynn. That was so touching to me because it was like, you just don’t know how long you have and don’t waste your time doing something that you’re miserable doing.

Katy Ripp 00:45:04  Yeah, and it’s not serving anybody. Right. Like if it’s misaligned with your values, a you’re going to be unhealthy, like physically or mentally. You’re going to break down at some point because it’s just not aligned. And then on top of that, like, who are you serving by doing, like doing something that you don’t want to do forever, like you’re not doing anybody any favors. And if we’ve ever seen anything like everybody’s replaceable.

Katy Ripp 00:45:32  I mean, I don’t love to say that out loud, but like, at your job, if you left, somebody will come in and take your place. They might not do it as great as you did, or they might do it better, or they might stay for two months and be like, fuck this, this is horrible, like you did or whatever, but staying at a job because it’s a job like doesn’t make any sense. And I know that sounds very entitled of me. Like, well, I have to make money. I have to pay bills. Well, so do I. And so do you write like most of the time, when we’re in jobs that actually align with our values, we make quadruple the money of what we were in. Tell me about the money. Like are you making more money than you were teaching?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:46:15  I was able to make more than I was teaching by the summer time. Like by the end of when I was leaving my teaching job, which is like, it’s crazy.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:46:22  And it’s sad because teachers are going to school and have so much education and are doing such good work, and they’re just not making any money. And it’s sad because a lot of the teachers I worked with wouldn’t have been able to support themselves. They had to have their partners income to like they wouldn’t have been able to support themselves. And you don’t have time to get another job if you’re teaching all day like it’s. So yeah, I was able to replace my teaching income, which is how I felt like confident and comfortable and like, I don’t know exactly what this is gonna look like long term still, but I am at least like replacing my income.

Katy Ripp 00:46:57  So wait, from like the time you decided in January ish to, like, take the course until the end of the year, you had already replaced your income.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:47:05  So yeah, like March was when I started. And then you get paid as a teacher through the end of summer. So it was like to August, probably March to August.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:47:13  So yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:47:15  So you worked half the time for the same amount of money. I mean.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:47:19  I was able to monthly income get to that point where I was able to have the same coming in month to month.

Katy Ripp 00:47:25  Yeah, yeah. And now like going forward still like more and more and more.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:47:33  Yeah. I mean, I still work less than I did as a teacher. Like like I said, I would work full days 8 to 6, seven sometimes like so 40, 50 hours a week And then and now I’m working probably 30 to 40 depending on or if I want to do more a week, but totally flexible and like and I get to make more and I’m like, I just can’t imagine still doing the same hours that I was as a teacher, right? And barely scraping by. It just makes me sad because then I know a lot of teachers do spend a lot of their own money on their classrooms.

Katy Ripp 00:48:08  But the cool thing about, like almost everybody I’ve interviewed that’s in their own business and a lot of my clients, we all have hangups about money, right? Like it’s one of the things that going forward, you’re probably going to hear a whole lot of money talk because I’m like obsessed with women and money right now.

Katy Ripp 00:48:26  But as capable, whole, resourceful, smart women, we have to make money. It’s our responsibility to make money so we can support other people, right? Like we can support other women. And the more money we make, the more we can do that. Like, I’m a giver. I’m super generous with my money. I’m super generous with my time. I can also like, give back in other ways, but like, I want to make money so I can do what I want with it, right? Like. And if that means for me buying ten teachers a classroom full of library books, that’s what I get to do with it. But I can’t do that if I don’t make a good amount of money. Right? Like I get to choose what I want to do with that money. So while you may not be teaching children because the system is broken and you’re better off doing this, you could go out and make a buttload of money and then go and buy a classroom full of books or yeah, donate $50,000.

Katy Ripp 00:49:28  A teacher can take a sabbatical. Or I mean, like, you can do anything. And so I think that there’s like a misconception about money and women. And we just have like all these money stories and all this like old baggage and limiting beliefs that were like, well, I don’t need to make that much money. Well, yes you do. Actually. It’s your responsibility if you have the ability to make that money to go out and make it so you can give it. Oh, I.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:49:51  Love that perspective. That’s awesome.

Katy Ripp 00:49:53  It’s our responsibility.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:49:55  Yeah, that’s not mine.

Katy Ripp 00:49:56  I don’t remember where I read it, but I’d love to take it, but I can’t. I just want to ask you about like podcasting. I get a lot of people that are like, oh, I’d love to start a podcast. What does that look like and what do you do? But I also have people here that are like, I want to leave my teaching job, but I want to start a podcast, right? Like, can I make money at that? I think that’s probably one of the most googled podcast question is like, how do you make money on a podcast? And I think I’ve told you this, or maybe you told me this, I can’t remember.

Katy Ripp 00:50:29  But like I use my podcast as a business expense for my coaching, right? Like this is a way for me to market my business. So people, if they like what I have to say, will come and buy coaching sessions for me or buy a program or, you know, whatever. It’s also just because I like to hear myself talk, like answer the some of those like, frequently asked podcast questions.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:50:52  Yeah. So your first one, I remember talking to you about this the first time we talked is can I make money from my podcast? And what I always say is like, there’s two arms of podcast monetization. So there’s either your podcast can be used to get more clients and make more money in your business, or get more course purchases, or however you make money in your business to funnel more clients or customers that way. Or you can monetize it from sponsorships. So you can do definitely do both. But what I always suggest and what we’ve talked about is using your podcast to help market your business and become a visibility tool for yourself and your business.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:51:31  So what I commonly work with most clients on is creating a podcast that attracts your ideal clients to listen. So I just finished creating a guide called the Purposeful Podcast Playbook, which helps you create a podcast that is not just what everyone else is doing, but it’s uniquely you. So you can really attract people that relate and resonate with you and want to work with you and want to hear more about what you have to say. So definitely, I would say I’d recommend starting a podcast with the goal of using it to support your business first, and then focusing on getting sponsors down the road if you’d like, because often it takes a while to build that listenership, which you can monetize for a larger amount of money. So the monetization will take a minute to grow. So you can do that in addition to using a podcast to support your business, but you can start supporting your business with a podcast from episode one.

Katy Ripp 00:52:27  Yeah, it’s shocking to me how many like I go out and look at the analytics all the time.

Katy Ripp 00:52:31  They mean nothing to me. By the way. I don’t really know except that I’m like, oh, this seems like a good number. But yeah, the amount of people that are like, oh, I listened to your podcast yesterday are just like, you know, people I run into, like around around. Right. That’s a, you know, conversation for another day, probably if somebody wanted to get started, like, what does it cost to get a podcast started?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:52:51  Yeah. So I customize all my packages. So if you only want certain parts of support with starting a podcast, I’m totally happy to customize and work with as little or as much support as you need. But my packages for launch start at around 1500 and then can go up depending on what kind of assets you want. And if you’re wanting support, managing guests and things like that for your podcast. So it definitely ranges on like if you want to be pretty hands off with your podcast, and I have some clients who just want to show up and record once a quarter, and they don’t want to deal with the back and forth of managing guests and editing and creating assets and scheduling and all the things like that.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:53:34  And then I have some that want to be more hands on and want to reach out to their own guests and do their own assets and things like that. So like I said, it’s definitely a range on how much support you want, but it’s definitely I would say I’ve seen more success on people with creating successful podcasts long term when they have just some support because it’s, oh, like, you know, even sitting down to record can be a part time job, right? Just making sure you’re prepared for the interviews and then having to turn around and.

Katy Ripp 00:54:04  Having to learn, you know, you’d have to learn a whole new program and then it’s got to be good. It’s we need to pay people to do the things that we’re not good at, period. Like, and then.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:54:16  It frees up, it frees up your brain and time to be able to have your conversations and be as awesome as you are as a host without having to worry about all the backend stuff. So.

Katy Ripp 00:54:26  Right, like, how long is this going to take me? Now I have to listen to this whole thing and I have to edit.

Katy Ripp 00:54:30  And I mean, what you give me is like complete peace of mind. I just like record like this. I send you a link and then all of a sudden, magically, I’ve got carousels and reels and video. I mean, just like you have no idea. It’s the only reason that this has been. I just sent my email out today and I put like the number ten above my podcast episode, and I’m like, how did I even get to ten episodes? This is crazy. So it’s very exciting and I never thought I’d really be here either. Right. Like I thought, oh, it might be fun to do a podcast, but I just know myself that, like, I’m not detail oriented enough to, like, do the actual production of it, but I love to have the conversations. So are money well spent? Charlie.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:55:13  Thank you. Well, I have loved working with you. Oh, seriously been so great.

Katy Ripp 00:55:18  I just like, I don’t know, I love your story, I really do.

Katy Ripp 00:55:22  I think that you are. I mean, I’m how do you find like I found you through Instagram. Is that how people are finding you? Instagram.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:55:31  I mean a lot of them have come through referrals. So like I said, it’s just been really cool to see the clients that contact me because I’m like, I’m so interested in what you have to say. Can I listen to your podcast anyways? Like, yes. So yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:55:45  Yeah. The the greatest thing about having faith in the universe or faith in anything, I think, is I just assume that I’m going to get the most amazing clients and I do. Right. Like, I think I’ve paid my dues in the other ways in my life that, like, I don’t have to worry about getting shitty clients like the ones that I would say no to just don’t even show up for me. And I’m like, cool. I don’t have to say no. It’s probably the same thing that’s happening for you, right? Like you just gave yourself enough space to allow the universe to drop in exactly what you were looking for.

Katy Ripp 00:56:19  I call it like flipping my magnet right where two magnets are, like they repel each other, and then all of a sudden you just flip one over and you’re like, oh, all I had to do was flip this over. Weird. Hahahahaha.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:56:31  Yes, exactly.

Katy Ripp 00:56:33  Yeah, it seems easy. Not so much all the time.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:56:36  Day to day. It’s definitely a practice.

Katy Ripp 00:56:38  Yeah. I want you to give everybody a platform. So, like, where can we find you? All the good things.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:56:45  You can find me on paradigm podcasting.com or Paradigm Podcasting on Insta, LinkedIn or Facebook. I think they’re all the same paradigm. Podcasting.

Katy Ripp 00:56:56  Yeah. What kind of podcasts do you love to do the most? I mean, I’m sure you’re open to a lot, but what are your favorite? Like, do you specialize in health and wellness or specialize in anything?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:57:07  I have been kind of deciding, like throughout my building my business, deciding if I want to niche down. And I’m just honestly loving doing a range of things.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:57:16  Like I said, I just happen to be connected with clients who are their expert, of course, in their field. And I learned so much so from like dietitians to life and business coaches to dog trainers. Oh yeah. Just everything. So I’m open to working with anyone and everyone who has a message that they would like to share.

Katy Ripp 00:57:36  How about your favorite podcasts?

Chanlie Leavitt 00:57:40  I love Armchair Expert is one of my favorites.

Katy Ripp 00:57:44  Yeah, we always have the.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:57:45  Funniest stories on that. Oh, there’s too many. I’ve been listening to some good podcasts by Wondery lately. They have, like, documentary type podcasts. There was an interesting one that I just finished called hysterical. there’s too many that I could tell you about, I love podcasts.

Katy Ripp 00:58:01  I love it, I love it. Awesome. What was amazing meeting with you, I just like I love all of our conversations. So thank you for doing such an amazing job on my podcast and also for being here. This will probably not be the last time we have you on.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:58:16  Well thank you. Yeah, it’s weird to be on this side of the microphone because I learned so much about you. And like my other clients, it’s like a parasocial relationship. I know your life story.

Katy Ripp 00:58:27  But you don’t know me, No, I know, and I think that’s the coolest thing about this platform in particular, is it just allows people to, like, tell their story. So I just think that that’s the coolest thing about this. And of course, people are like, well, there’s a podcast for everything these days. Yeah there is. There’s also 8 billion people in the world. I think we’re fine.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:58:47  Well, and what I say is like, no one’s you write like your story in the way you are going to tell it, and the questions you are going to ask to the guests are going to be different than what they would share on someone else’s podcast.

Katy Ripp 00:59:00  You can listen to more than one. Yeah, like there’s plenty for everybody. It’s fine. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Charlie.

Katy Ripp 00:59:07  I really appreciate it.

Chanlie Leavitt 00:59:09  I appreciate you, you are just a joy to work with. And I’m getting just to chat with you today. Thank you so much.

Katy Ripp 00:59:17  And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at KatyRipp.com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically.

Katy Ripp 01:00:03  Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember #ActuallyICan.

Shawn Carlin 00:00:00  The problem is never the problem. I’d argue there are no problems. Now that might sound like very pollyannaish, but there’s only circumstance. It’s the meaning we give or the perspective that we give that creates the problem or the suffering or whatever you want to call it. And so if you just understand that what happens, happens. And it couldn’t have been any other way because it didn’t.

Katy Ripp 00:00:27  Hey there fellow rebels. Welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defining what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self.

Katy Ripp 00:01:06  Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie. You’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go.

Shawn Carlin 00:01:28  Hey!

Katy Ripp 00:01:29  I’m so excited to have you here. I have some questions, but, like, this is really just meant to be like, #Actually, I can, like, we can live our life outside of the norms, societal norms, all the things that people put on us, the pressures, all of that. And you have certainly taken that road. So I really do want to hear your story, like you said. I mean, I have to hear the narrow part.

Shawn Carlin 00:01:53  Oh, did I put that in my oh my God, did I put that in like an asterisks or like a parenthesis?

Katy Ripp 00:01:58  Parentheses. No, you just.

Katy Ripp 00:01:59  Said this makes for a good story. Which it does. What the fuck?

Shawn Carlin 00:02:05  Yeah, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:02:06  I saw your hair.

Shawn Carlin 00:02:07  No, thank God, it like, the smell is so god awful that, like, so, you know, it made it to my hands. And I was like, oh, what?

Katy Ripp 00:02:16  Oh, wow. Wow. Yes. Like, that went like to a whole new level.

Shawn Carlin 00:02:22  It was literally like a discovery across my condo of all the little treasures that were left. Quite amazing.

Katy Ripp 00:02:29  Quite an experience. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:02:30  The energy that people put into stuff like that. Oh, I just refuse to do that. Right? Like I just don’t have enough energy to go around to do shit like that. But man, people do.

Shawn Carlin 00:02:40  You know, and I was coming from a good place, like like I literally left because I said, I’ll give you space because, you know, we were living in Denver and I’m like, you know, she said her mom was coming down. And I said, well, hey, I’ll leave for work. And I, you know, booked a trip.

Shawn Carlin 00:02:56  And no, actually I literally I stayed in a hotel across town as I worked and just to be respectful and come back to that.

Katy Ripp 00:03:03  But so no good deed goes unpunished.

Katy Ripp 00:03:06  Shawn, remind me to you played for the UW, is that right?

Katy Ripp 00:03:10  Yeah, I did for.

Katy Ripp 00:03:11  All four years. Five years? Four years?

Shawn Carlin 00:03:13  No, I was so kind of a walk on story. So I played got recruited out of, you know, out of Middleton. Really didn’t get any big offers from any big D1 schools. I had a few sniffs for Madison, but it was just because I was close and I think they were like, hey, you’re too small and we’re good in the guard category. And so I ended up playing at Winona State. And you know, long story short, kept, I guess, some contact with some of the assistants. And in the back of my mind, you know, I studied my ass off because, you know, after about a semester at Winona, to me, I just realized that it just wasn’t where I wanted to be.

Shawn Carlin 00:03:49  Right? It was like four years of my life. Everybody told you it’s the best four years. And I wasn’t feeling it, so I literally was. I think I was like Madison or Bust, and I knew I needed the grades. And then I sort of kept tabs with the coaches. And when I came back, yeah, I literally it’s funny, I joke about this because I had a golf trip with my dad and brother in law to go to Hilton Head, and I was so excited. And then I got a call from one of the assistant coaches and said, hey, Shawn, we you know, we have two spots. We’d like you. It’s kind of like one of those invite tryouts and we’d like you to come down. And at first I was like, shit, no, I have a golf trip.

Katy Ripp 00:04:27  During my trip. I couldn’t believe it.

Shawn Carlin 00:04:31  I’m like, your head is not in the right place, Shawn. But then I’m like, no, I have to do this right.

Shawn Carlin 00:04:36  This is my opportunity. And this is like the dream. At least I thought it was the dream. And yeah, so I went down and literally like 48 hours. I was in the locker room with the uniform. I sit next to Mike Finley and I’m like, what?

Katy Ripp 00:04:49  What happens happened?

Shawn Carlin 00:04:50  Yeah. So anyway, I played two years, kind of wrapped up my two years and played two years down there, earned a scholarship. And yeah, it’s one of those kind of a cool walk on to scholarship type stories, which I’m very proud of.

Katy Ripp 00:05:03  But yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:05:04  For well, first of all, what year did you graduate.

Shawn Carlin 00:05:07  The high school? 92.

Katy Ripp 00:05:08  Oh, you did other stuff. Okay. I didn’t know that.

Katy Ripp 00:05:12  You guys both went to Winona.

Katy Ripp 00:05:13  Yeah, I was just going to say your.

Shawn Carlin 00:05:15  Sister went there as.

Katy Ripp 00:05:15  Well.

Katy Ripp 00:05:16  Yes, and I was 14 maybe at the time. 15. I was a freshman in high school and was, like, hitting up every single bar in Winona at the time because I had her ID.

Katy Ripp 00:05:27  We were probably like, high five and somewhere, you know, the mingles.

Shawn Carlin 00:05:30  I think, was the joint where all the 18 year olds could get in and me included. At the time, I wasn’t 21 by any means.

Katy Ripp 00:05:36  So yeah, she bartended.

Katy Ripp 00:05:39  I mean, she was only 18, but I’m guessing you and her took a very different route at Winona State. Let’s just say that.

Shawn Carlin 00:05:45  You know, we crossed paths and I think I think we were probably the only two Middleton people there. I don’t think it was like a destination.

Katy Ripp 00:05:52  Yeah, it was not. Yeah.

Shawn Carlin 00:05:54  And I really only went there to play ball like I knew nothing about it other than when I got contacted by him. And I really fell in love with coach. And. Yeah, that’s really why I went. But.

Katy Ripp 00:06:04  Yeah, but I do.

Shawn Carlin 00:06:05  Remember hanging out with stuff. In fact, I think I had a dorm party where I got in trouble and I remember stuff being there, but.

Katy Ripp 00:06:12  Yeah, shocking. Shocking for all of us. I was probably there too. Well, I can tell you that, you know, I was a freshman in high school when you guys were at Winona, and Katie is just a year older than me, so I’ve certainly known known Katie, your sister, for a long time. But, you know, when I heard Shawn Carlin for most of my high school plus 20s into my 30s and now 40s, I mean, you were the basketball star in our world. I had lots of fangirl moments over Shawn Carlin. Did you know that?

Katy Ripp 00:06:45  I didn’t know that.

Shawn Carlin 00:06:47  But I love to hear that. Thank you for sharing that.

Katy Ripp 00:06:49  You know, for what?

Shawn Carlin 00:06:50  Maybe what small of a basketball career that I have. It’s good to know that maybe I, you know, for those fan crushers.

Katy Ripp 00:06:56  Or whatever they were.

Katy Ripp 00:06:57  Impact. You were an impression on a freshman high schooler. And I mean to connect with you at all. To be honest, I think the first time I saw you come into 1909, I was totally fangirling.

Katy Ripp 00:07:11  I’m like, oh my God, Shawn Carlin is here. I think that you had just come back for the alumni UW something. This was a few years ago and I was like, oh my God, Shawn Carlin is here. And then you reached out to me at one point last year and I was like, what is happening? Shawn Carlin has just reached out to me. I have reached a pinnacle.

Shawn Carlin 00:07:33  Just new.

Katy Ripp 00:07:34  Heights. New heights. Yes. When I reach.

Shawn Carlin 00:07:37  Out, it’s just a new height that.

Katy Ripp 00:07:39  You’ve reached.

Katy Ripp 00:07:39  I just but what you reached out on was like so far removed from, you know, like kind of the pedestal I put you up on on this, like, you know, a financier. And I think we all have like misperceptions of people, especially when we’re, you know, we have crushes on them when we’re in high school. But when we get into like, adulthood, I have always said that nobody makes it to 45 now, almost 46 for me, 50 something for you that we just don’t make it here unscathed, right? Like there’s just no way to tell people in their 20s and 30s that it is impossible to get to a point in your life where it’s like, perfect, right? Like it just does not exist.

Katy Ripp 00:08:25  I hate to burst anybody’s bubble out there, but like, perfection just doesn’t exist. And for me, and I think for you and I’m we’re going to get into your story a little bit and kind of your philosophy, the universe is just like helped me write. Like I don’t have a very organized religion. However, I’m very spiritual. I believe in the universe. I believe in metaphysics. Physics, and that there is an energy around us, that there’s a vibe, there’s high vibration, low vibration energy, all of the things. And for many people it seems very woowoo, right? Like people are like, oh my God, it’s so woo woo and like, how can you believe in the Law of Attraction? I had I posted something not too long ago and they were like, well, that’s God. And I was like, okay, well that might be your God. And God is just like a loaded word for me. It has nothing to do with pretty much anything else. It’s just loaded for me.

Katy Ripp 00:09:21  So I choose to look at it like source energy universe, sort of that, you know, external something out there. And I have started to dabble in, you know, like talking more about it really showing like the practical sides of like manifestation and really getting into that. And I think that’s like what has connected us. right? One of the things that I want to get into, and maybe this is like a, you know, like maybe a little bit further down the line after we’ve gone through your story and stuff. I am so curious about what it’s like to be male and believe this stuff, because from a female perspective, it seems very feminine. While it’s not right, like it’s not gender specific, I’m only in the like, female part of it, right where I’m like, it’s really like my universe is a she and the metaphysics around it and the energy around it is very feminine in my world, and my audience is very female based. I’m curious, like on your X platform, which is huge, and we’re going to go into that a little bit to how much of this is male, how many like people are responding to you as males?

Shawn Carlin 00:10:39  That’s a really good, insightful question, and I think I struggle with that for a long time.

Shawn Carlin 00:10:45  Right. Being in the sports world. Being in the business world. Being in the finance world. And quite frankly I think that’s why. Not that I you know I think struggled a strong word. But I’ve been in you know corporate finance if you will for 28 years. And there was always a sense of in congruency. Right. I felt these things and I felt them really strongly. And, you know, I started leaning into like, well, I’m just introverted, you know, I’m an introvert living in an extroverted world because I looked at the books and I looked at all the things that I gravitated towards. It was, you know, to your point, it was personal development. It was spirituality. And, you know, that’s even been on an evolution over the last, as we all are. Right? We’re all on this journey and we’re evolving. And but it always felt like, what’s wrong with me? And I just sort of like suppressed it all. And like, I can’t talk about those things in my business.

Shawn Carlin 00:11:40  And I found a way to kind of find peace with it, as you know, as I’ve gained, you know, wisdom and maturity. And I’m sharing now with younger people. I think even in, you know, as I look at the world of sales, which, you know what I mean in the world of finance is really good. We’re all in sales on some level where we’re influencing people to make change. Right? I mean, that’s in essence what it is. It’s another I think we put a bad word even on the word of sales.

Katy Ripp 00:12:04  Right. It’s yeah.

Shawn Carlin 00:12:05  We’re all in it in some way, shape or form. But I’ve really learned to like bring it all together. But I also think like that’s, you know, to your point of like my ex account. Really for me, that was a platform for me to start sharing something that I felt was bottled up for a long, long time. I’ve been sort of doing this deep dive, as you have on some of these areas of spirituality and personal growth, leadership development.

Shawn Carlin 00:12:30  And, you know, I’ve also done a deeper dive into like the neuroscience, right. You mentioned metaphysics and neuroscience and, you know, the science of brain change. And for me, like that combination, when I think about the intersection of where a lot of my content and ideas originate really comes at that intersection of spirituality, of psychology, you know, of mind transformation, but bringing in the science of that, because I think there is a very pragmatic side for me that was like, I need this sort of understanding that it’s not. Woo woo.

Katy Ripp 00:13:02  Yeah.

Shawn Carlin 00:13:03  It’s science. Right? Like we talk about energy and that gets to be a very esoteric idea. But you know, when you really get to the science that everything is made up of energy, everything. Yeah. That’s not woo woo.

Katy Ripp 00:13:16  That’s science. Not actually.

Katy Ripp 00:13:17  Science. Right.

Shawn Carlin 00:13:18  No. When you just start to really, you know, combine all those things together and then you start to connect how human beings work and how we communicate and how we reach higher levels of success and potential.

Shawn Carlin 00:13:30  It’s really understanding the energetics, the frequency, the vibration to really dig into that. And once I really started being like, hey, this can actually all work together when I’m one on one with a client and I’m communicating. It’s about reading their energy, right? That to me is like effective communication. And so I think I just became very comfortable with bringing it all together. But I also feel like this greater part of me, very similar to kind of how you’re stepping out on your platform, which I love to see, which is why I ended up reaching out to you, I think, because I just resonated with your messaging. I’m doing the same, right? I’m in this sort of business world, but I see a lot of suffering out there. A lot of it in my mind is really unnecessary suffering, and I wanted to start sharing some of my ideas to, you know, to start helping with that. And that’s kind of where I am today, where I’m not quite where you are, but I am stepping out and starting to build a platform.

Shawn Carlin 00:14:27  I’m starting to coach with people, and I really want to get some of my ideas out there because I think they can help.

Katy Ripp 00:14:31  Yeah, that’s.

Katy Ripp 00:14:32  A perfect segue into how did you get to this place? Like, how did you get to a place where you said, okay, well, maybe there isn’t something wrong with me. Maybe there’s, like, a different way. Like, maybe, actually I can do this. So I’d love to sort of hear how you even got to the point where you were thinking about. There’s got to be something more out here. There’s something else out here.

Katy Ripp 00:14:56  Yeah, I think for a lot of people.

Shawn Carlin 00:14:57  Right. Sometimes it’s when you hit rock bottom right where you really start to search. And I, you know, I can’t say I mean my rock bottom, really. If I pinpointed it was the moment you and I were discussing earlier where, you know, I moved to Denver with a girlfriend, thinking it would sort of fix everything, and it didn’t.

Shawn Carlin 00:15:17  Lo and behold. So here’s two people that were kind of a little bit lost. You know, themselves and, you know, we had a bad breakup and, you know, and I think that moment for me, just sort of unhappy in my career by myself alone in Denver, for the most part. I’m just wondering like, what the hell am I doing with my life? I was really where I started my journey of spirituality, and to take that even a step further. You know, I’d been down in Denver, I had I’ll try to condense my story, but my family was coming down to visit, and we decided to do the, you know, the proverbial dude ranch experience when I was down in Denver. That’s what every family does when they come visit family members down in Colorado. And so I did some research. I found this gentleman. It was a more of a boutique type ranch. And, you know, in my due diligence efforts, I felt it was really important that I go and visit first.

Shawn Carlin 00:16:14  My family’s going to come down for a week. I’m like, well, I want to check this place out, make sure it’s okay. And so this guy Daniel, he looked like a Native American. He, you know, he had his hair pulled back in a ponytail and had the, you know, little darker complected skin. And come to find out, he was a Jewish guy from Chicago, which was really interesting. But, you know, basically what he told me was he’s like, Shawn. I had a long career in business. I sold my business when I was 38, and I moved to Denver and I moved here, and he goes. Everything that I learned in business, I’ve learned from a horse. And then I was like, well, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? Like, that doesn’t make any sense to me. And so I got up on the horse and I started, you know, started on a walk. And, you know, I was nervous.

Shawn Carlin 00:17:04  I’d never really been up on a horse before. You know, I think I’ve maybe done a trail ride before at a, you know, local place. But I get up on this horse and we start walking, which is fine, but I’m carrying a bunch of nerves. And he asked me to push the horse into a, you know, a trot. And we started trotting and, you know, I’m getting more and more uncomfortable. And then he’s like, now squeeze again. I want you to, you know, go into a canter or a lope, as it’s called. And as soon as I did that, the horse like just like try to buck me off and I flew forward and, you know, grab the horse’s mane as I’m almost falling off and grabbed on. And anyways, I was just like you know what the Bleep was that? And anyways I did it again. And the horse did the same thing. And so I’m frustrated. The horse is frustrated. And you know Daniel asked me to get off the horse and he gets on and he basically goes through all of it like seamlessly.

Shawn Carlin 00:17:52  And I basically made a comment I’m like, you know, well, that horse really must not like me at all. And he goes, Shawn has nothing to do with the horse. You know, it has everything going on with you. And I kind of looked at him. I was perplexed, and he made an analogy. He’s like, why do you think the horse was kicking? And he just said, what’s kicking inside of you that the horse is feeling? You know, this Daniel guy doesn’t know anything about me. He doesn’t know anything about what’s going on in my life. But of course I know what’s going on. And so he went on to explain, right. Just and this is where I really got hooked. And he just went on to explain how horses are very energy intuitive, very energy aware animals. They’re very intuitive. They’re very energy Sensitive and they basically feel what you’re feeling inside. And so as a prey animal, it makes sense. Right. So if you know, if a horse is out in the past or out, you know, in the wild and they’re out in, you know, in the open and they’re grazing with their herd, well, they have to be able to have a 100% sort of, you know, a 360 awareness of the energy about them.

Shawn Carlin 00:18:55  Right? Because if there is a wolf or some other predator that’s sort of lurking, maybe a mountain lion, they have to be able to sense that energy, right? That intention before it happens. And then the lead horse is able to then sense that right energetically, and they flee right as a prey animal, their fight or flight, and they flee because they felt that danger. And so intuitively, that makes sense. You know, you’ve probably heard that before, right? Like horses know how you’re feeling. Well, people are like, oh, that sounds really stupid. That’s like it just it’s nature. It’s how they’ve survived for millions of years. And so, you know, that was the moment that really brought me down. Not only the spiritual path, but I really sort of dove into energy awareness and sort of found this whole industry of equine guided education. You know, horses are being used all over the world to heal, whether it’s physical handicaps, whether it’s mental issues. There’s some areas here in Madison where they put, you know, people who are paralyzed, either from, you know, the waist down and they’ll utilize horses for physical therapy.

Shawn Carlin 00:20:04  Right. It’s the first time when you get on the horse’s back where you actually can feel that natural motion of your hips, you know, being on a horse, you know, guided by instructors. I know in autism, they’re utilizing equine therapy. And so I really started developing more leadership development sessions, coaching sessions where I was teaching people sort of sound leadership principles through the eyes of the horse. And it’s really phenomenal healing work where, You know, I’ll just. I’ll abbreviate this where, you know, when you put somebody who might be in a leadership position, a CEO or an executive, where on the outside they might be holding a bravado, but on the inside they might be scared shitless. And when you put them in a round circle with a horse one on one, you know a horse doesn’t lie. And a horse is 100% authentic and honest at that moment. And so when you structure these exercises to do one on one sort of human body language and communication, the horse is going to be an immediate mirror to what’s going on, not on the outside but on the inside.

Shawn Carlin 00:21:07  And that, you know, sort of 100% honest feedback in the moment is really, really powerful to help people see kind of what they’re holding in and where they need to change. So anyways, long winded way of sort of telling you how I started my.

Katy Ripp 00:21:20  Journey.

Shawn Carlin 00:21:21  Getting into energy awareness and coaching and personal development, because the horse really took me on a journey of healing myself and I wanted to share that with other people.

Katy Ripp 00:21:32  What made you follow that feeling, that path that like this might be the answer for me?

Shawn Carlin 00:21:39  I think the horse just made me realize that who I thought I was really is not who I am. And that whole journey of discovery was fascinating to me. To see some of that revealed. You know I kind of got stripped down in front of the horse if you will. It’s very vulnerable. You know you have to be vulnerable and to kind of see this persona that I had been kind of holding for myself and how it was really holding me back. Once I sort of got on that path, I’m learning how to peel back those layers of the onion, learning how to live more authentically, trying to be more my authentic self.

Shawn Carlin 00:22:21  That journey for me was just fascinating. I have a curious personality as it is. And it’s been probably 15, 20 years of sort of immersing myself, you know, in this work ever since knowing like, hey, this is what I need to do. No, I’m not quite there yet in terms of like, I haven’t broken away from my career. I enjoy what I do. I know, like this is where I’m stepping into and sort of what brought you and I together here today.

Katy Ripp 00:22:47  You had to sort of be ready for that, right? Like you had to like you said, you had to be vulnerable to be able to, like, receive that kind of wisdom from the horse and that kind of thing. And the reason I’m asking is I picture that CEO in the ring, right? And seeing that horse having a mirror for yourself or for that person and really not being ready to see it. How much of that do you feel like you need to be open to receiving some of this information versus I’m not ready for this.

Katy Ripp 00:23:20  It’s not coming to me.

Shawn Carlin 00:23:22  Yeah. And you get those.

Katy Ripp 00:23:23  Responses.

Shawn Carlin 00:23:24  Right? I mean, I think in that sort of work too, there’s a lot of prep work that, you know, they understand what they’re getting into and why they’re there, right? I mean, normally when someone’s doing something that they engage in, someone like yourself in coaching, it’s because they feel like something’s missing. There’s gotta be something more. And so I think, you know, yeah, I think you have to be to a point where, you know, in my case, where I just kind of hit rock bottom. I was looking for something different. Yeah, like there’s got to be a different path. And I think for others it’s. Yeah, when you hit that tipping point of, like, something in my life needs to change. There’s that catalyst that kind of pushes you into it. And yeah, I think you need to be open to that. It’s got to be a catalyst. It’s got to be the moment.

Shawn Carlin 00:24:09  And sometimes it doesn’t need to be that big thing. Maybe it’s just that little nagging like there’s something more.

Katy Ripp 00:24:15  Yeah, right.

Shawn Carlin 00:24:15  And I need to find it. And then you start searching a little bit, and that’s when they find people like yourself or whatever it might. Maybe it’s that book that gets you on that journey, and then it just starts to cascade from there. But I think for me, yeah, you know, people so often talk about their hero’s journey and it’s these big, huge moments of like, you know, they overdosed on drugs and they, you know, and I hit it low, like I literally had thought bad thoughts. And I, you know, was questioning my life at the time. And it’s not to be overly dramatic, but it’s where I was. And I’d argue, like I just opened myself up at that point to find something greater, to realize to your point that there is something greater whether you want to call it God, spirit, essence, intelligence a lot to me, it’s all the same energy.

Katy Ripp 00:25:04  We’re all talking about the same thing.

Katy Ripp 00:25:06  I mean, I love organized religion if that floats your boat, by all means, right? But it is sort of all having faith in something. And to your point, the rock bottom. For me personally, I say like, I kind of skipped along rock bottom for a long time. It was not an epiphany. It was not. I mean, I did wake up one day and was like, oh, I am no longer drinking anymore. That was a day that I decided, and for me, I kind of call it a trickle down effect, right? Like all the things that I had been trying to change for so long, I changed one thing and that was able for me to let the rest of it sort of trickle down and that good energy sort of trickle down and hit all of the areas of my life. But I have also been on a journey since I was probably 14 years old. And I guess if I had to, like, pinpoint something, my parents got divorced when I was 14 and it changed the trajectory of my life.

Katy Ripp 00:26:00  I don’t know what it would have been like otherwise. I’ll never know that. But for me it was like a huge change and I’ve constantly looked. And to use your word.

Katy Ripp 00:26:12  Seek.

Katy Ripp 00:26:13  I’ve been seeking a different way. In some ways it’s personal development, health and wellness, spirituality, you know. And then I had kids and it was like, how can I be a better parent? How can I? And it was all this like, like where I am now was a culmination of years of therapy and acupuncture and reading and podcasts and articles and really like looking for something. At the time, I thought it was to like, make me like the best version of myself, but really it was a journey to authenticity. Like really a way to like again, to your point, peel back the layers of the onion and really get into who the fuck am I? And I don’t know that I know it now, right? Like, I just keep trying to do stuff that like, feels good and I keep taking the next best step.

Katy Ripp 00:27:10  Is it always the right step? Absolutely not. Do I always get the best reception? No. Do I feel good about what I’m putting out there? Yes. And that is enough for me right now. I’m curious in the you know, you had mentioned your career. I don’t exactly know what you do, to be honest, but I know you’re in the finance world and very business centric sales. Right. Like a very I guess in my world they call it like a patriarchal business, you know, rigid or that’s what I, that’s what I perceive it as. I’m not saying that that’s what it is, but tell me about how you’re trying to live this way in that kind of environment.

Shawn Carlin 00:27:50  Yeah, I think for me it’s been the word softening comes up where I approach my meetings differently, I listen differently, I show up differently, and I try to come at it from, you know, with a different energy. And I think I noticed that in my clients. Right. Instead of like resisting something that I felt like I was resisting for a lot of years, like fighting, struggling, friction, you know, these are all negative energies and just allowing and accepting and looking at, you know, just being very, you know, having a lot of gratitude for what I do.

Shawn Carlin 00:28:27  Right. For a long time, I thought, I’m supposed to be doing this, but yet I’m stuck doing this. Right. And that sort of friction, it wasn’t working really, really well. Right. And I think now it’s sort of understanding that, you know, the only thing that’s going to create that friction was me. And so finding more and more gratitude for what I’m doing today as a way to help fund what I would like to do in the future. Right. And all the wonderful things that it’s provided for me and my family. And, you know, looking at it from a, you know, being very, very grateful, I see it as a stepping stone to where I’m going, but really try to get rid of the resistance, you know, just to back up for a second. I was listening as a coach, you know, you start to get trained on, like, you know, the words we use, right? And you actually picked out a word that I used which was searching.

Shawn Carlin 00:29:21  And you know what? I’ve almost learned today? That it’s more of like a instead of searching or seeking something today it’s more of a revealing process.

Katy Ripp 00:29:33  Right.

Katy Ripp 00:29:33  Oh I love that.

Shawn Carlin 00:29:34  So you know when I start to think about like searching or seek it implies that it’s not already there. Does that make sense.

Katy Ripp 00:29:42  Yeah 100%.

Katy Ripp 00:29:44  Yeah. Right.

Shawn Carlin 00:29:44  It’s just that little word change when you start to think like it just has a total energetic different feel to it. Right. So when you think of about more revealing it’s revealing who you already are. Right. Now you said the words like and I said you know stripping you know the onion apart to get to the core of who you really are. And I think that’s a really important thing to look at. I often use the phrase my girls probably roll their eyes when I say it around the house, but I say, you know, the problem is never the problem. I’d argue, you know, some people will like, roll their eyes on this as well.

Shawn Carlin 00:30:16  But I’m like, there are no Problems. Now that might sound like very pollyannaish, but there’s only circumstance. It’s the meaning we give or the perspective that we give that creates the problem, right? Or the suffering or whatever you want to call it. And so if you just understand that what happens happens is a quote from one of my mentors, it took me a while to kind of really digest this, but he said, you know, what happens happens. And it couldn’t have been any other way because it didn’t.

Katy Ripp 00:30:46  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:30:47  There wasn’t a choice. It just.

Katy Ripp 00:30:49  Happened.

Shawn Carlin 00:30:50  I’m not saying it was good or I’m not saying it. Maybe it didn’t feel awesome at the time. In fact, it may have sucked, but the fact is, it happened. And the more you resist, what happened is the more you perpetuate the suffering. And so by just accepting and not resisting, then you’re able to at least accept. And then it’s the meaning we give or the relationship we have to what happens that creates that sort of perpetual suffering as we go or that ability just to move on accepts what’s happened.

Shawn Carlin 00:31:21  And so to me, it is sort of a dissolution process, not sort of a seeking. And so the more and more you can sort of dissolve and pull away the layers of yourself that is sort of rooted in that sort of I think the human structure is naturally rooted in some form of limitation and adequacy or scarcity. That’s how we’re brought into this world. And then the lens that we see everything through kind of comes through that lens. So the more we can dissolve that and see that’s not who we truly are, the more we can start to connect with like what we truly want in life.

Katy Ripp 00:31:52  For me.

Katy Ripp 00:31:53  I’m a huge visual person, so what you’re talking about resonates on so many levels. But for me, it was what I picture as flipping my magnet. So, you know, if you are watching two magnets, you know, like the proverbial horseshoe magnet with the red and the silver and whatever, and you know, they’re pushing against each other, but all you have to do is flip on over and it attracts that to me is such like a I mean, I call it flipping my magnet.

Katy Ripp 00:32:17  I write it in my journal all the time, like, what do I need to do to flip my magnet here? Because most times, like I am fighting against something so hard, that friction, that paddling upstream, you know, whatever you’re doing, that’s kind of like not going with the flow to me, if I can just flip my magnet and it’s really what keeps me sober, because that’s all I think about, is I was constantly fighting against it all the time. And for me it was fear, right? And most of these things, it is fear, right? Like we’re scared about what we’re going to find out. We’re scared about what people are going to say we’re scared about. I mean, those are, to me totally natural fears, right? Like they just are what they are. It’s really just like pulling some of that stuff out from underneath the bed, looking at it, saying, this is what it is like. Let’s look at this from a subjective point of view and try to go with it or accept it, rather than fighting against it all the time.

Katy Ripp 00:33:16  I think that this is very true in our diet culture. I think it’s very true in our money situation. You know, like the way we feel about money. It’s very true in our spirituality, like all of these things sort of on that wheel of life. I think so much of this, if we can just accept where we’re at and sort of flip the magnet and figure out like that, like instead of fighting against this, instead of trying to solve the problem, how can we look at it subjectively like somebody else would look at it and figure it out? And most recently, and I hope we can talk about money a little bit because I love your views on this. Most recently, January 1st, my resolution. I’ve had a money resolution for 40 years or 30 years, and it was always, you know, get out of debt, make $100,000. You know, all of these like Smart goals. And this year I decided to do it differently. I decided to flip my magnet and I said, the only thing I’m going to do this whole entire years pay attention to my finances.

Katy Ripp 00:34:19  That’s it. That’s all I’m going to do. I’m just going to bring everything out. I’m going to take it out from underneath the bed. I’m going to find all of our accounts. I’m going to look at our savings. I’m going to look at old 401 days. I’m going to look at all the debt we have. I’m going to look at all the interest rates. And all I’m going to do is pay attention to it. And I’ll tell you that all of those other goals that I’ve had for years solved themselves.

Katy Ripp 00:34:44  just.

Katy Ripp 00:34:45  Period. I just like I took all the shame off of it. I took all the emotional charge off of it and just looked at it like it wasn’t my fault. Like there was no reason to even like, it’s simply numbers. Now, do we have, like, a whole loaded? I don’t even know what the right word is around money. Yes, we all have like our money stories, our first money memories, all of those things. But when I just really decided to flip my magnet and accept where I was rather than trying to fix it or blame myself, it all just worked out.

Katy Ripp 00:35:23  It’s like it’s fascinating to me because really, it’s the only thing I did. And so now I’m like, it’s like a game. I’m like obsessed with it. Like in such a good way, right? Like I have money Mondays. Right? Like I come into my office and I look at all of our accounts and I do all of our stuff and for ten minutes and it’s you can’t even imagine how long I ignored it. And now I’m like, oh my God, this is so fun. So I’m just because you’re in the money world. I’m so curious about your opinion on money. You’re like, what’s out there? How do you feel about it? Like just anything. Anything about money. I’m just obsessed with money right now.

Katy Ripp 00:36:05  And yeah, I just I just saw your email.

Katy Ripp 00:36:07  Do. Yes. I just basically gave you my entire email this morning. Also, I work with a lot of clients that are small business owners, and right now I’m hearing a lot of my clients say, I don’t need to make that much money, right? I just need to make enough money so I don’t have to worry about money, or I don’t need to make $100,000 a year.

Katy Ripp 00:36:26  That’s like the newest one. Like, I don’t need to make $100,000. I just need to make X in order to do this. And so what I’m hearing is we’re so scared to make the money. And I’m so excited for women especially, but all good people. Like it’s our responsibility as good people to make money so we can do good with the world, right? Like so we can donate to the baseball teams. I mean, on a small level, but also like, so we can take our families on vacations, which is not selfish. That is self-care. And it’s taking care of your family, which makes you a higher Vibration which brings everybody together. So, like, I am just I’m fascinated by it. Yeah, obviously, because.

Katy Ripp 00:37:16  I’m like.

Katy Ripp 00:37:17  La la la la la la.

Katy Ripp 00:37:18  La. I mean, it’s 100,000.

Shawn Carlin 00:37:19  Shameful. I mean, I.

Katy Ripp 00:37:21  Don’t think so.

Katy Ripp 00:37:22  But at one time I did.

Katy Ripp 00:37:24  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:37:25  Well, and you know, in the big scheme of things, $100,000 isn’t that much.

Katy Ripp 00:37:28  But I also grew up with parents that paid $22,000 for their first house. And I hear that all the time, right, like I don’t how could you pay $50,000 for a vehicle, right? Like, I still hear that in a way that’s not malicious. It’s just things have changed so much. So when you go and you buy a $350,000 house ten years ago, you feel like, oh my God, do I not deserve this? Because my parents paid $22,000 for their house? Just like those are the kind of money stories that I have definitely had in my head. And there is something to be said about women coming into my office and feeling like $100,000 is shameful. Like it’s somehow selfish to be making $100,000 or the other recent one that I’ve heard, and I’ve heard this for a very long time. Well, I don’t have to work. I just like, okay, what does that mean? That you don’t have to work because your husband or your partner makes enough money that you can just stay home? Is that what that actually means? Because I’ve seen some people come in and say, I want to start this business.

Katy Ripp 00:38:39  It’s my little side hustle. They’re starting businesses on $0, right? Like they’re coming in and putting it on a credit card, and they’re thinking that they can start a brand new business for 5000 bucks. And this is in no way to, like, shame anybody into thinking that you can’t do that. I started many businesses on $0, actually quite less than $0, but that they’re coming in and saying, well, I don’t really have to do this. I could just like stay home and, you know, be with my kids while they’re and let them go to school. I don’t really have to do this, so I’m not sure if I want to take on all the stress of owning a business. I don’t know what that means.

Shawn Carlin 00:39:17  Yeah. You want to dig a little bit deeper.

Katy Ripp 00:39:20  Into do, right? We what?

Shawn Carlin 00:39:23  Yeah, yeah. Like, can I get you in a coaching relationship where we can dive a little deeper into that one?

Katy Ripp 00:39:27  Right.

Katy Ripp 00:39:28  And so much of my coaching has.

Katy Ripp 00:39:30  Yes, it’s business mentorship. And I will help you set up your LLC and I will do all that. But I also need to know why you think you don’t deserve $100,000. I need to know that I can’t work with you otherwise. I’m sorry.

Shawn Carlin 00:39:43  Yeah, no, I, I get it. You know, it’s interesting because, like, part of my brain wants to go to, like, the financial discussion when you talk about, you know, the $22,000 home. And I’m like, you know, you look at the $35 trillion of government debt and the inflationary problem. And, you know, I’ll pose a question often like, look, it’s not the value of your home that went up 40% in the last five years, it’s the value of the dollar went down 40%. And that’s a real mind screw for people to understand because they think they’re getting wealthier. But meantime, it’s really the fact that we’ve printed a massive amount of money through our government over the last five years. I mean, a huge amount of money.

Shawn Carlin 00:40:21  And it’s inflationary. Right. And so it creates this whole illusion. And that’s why, you know, your parents bought a $22,000 home. And today, you know, 22,000 is what you’ll pay in taxes sometimes. You know, it’s crazy.

Katy Ripp 00:40:36  Yeah. It’s crazy going on. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Shawn Carlin 00:40:38  Totally different discussion. That’s not what we’re here to do today. But I think again listening like I often like to think a thought came into my mind. It’s like you can’t create what you want to create in life by focusing on what you don’t want. And so when you talk about like, I don’t want to be in debt or, you know, I don’t want to be overweight or, you know, to me you’re just perpetuating that which you don’t want by focusing on what you don’t want.

Katy Ripp 00:41:03  To me, that’s the same energy. It’s the same energy. You’re giving the universe the same energy. You’re telling them, don’t give me this. But that’s all you’re thinking about.

Shawn Carlin 00:41:12  I want money or I want more money in my life because I don’t want to be poor.

Shawn Carlin 00:41:16  Okay, I understand that concern. But again, energetically, where’s that coming from? Right. And I think that’s where when you really start to get into I mean money stories, as you mentioned, I’d love to get into it a little bit because I feel like, you know, you could ask, you know, look, ask 100 people, you know, what money means to them, like define it. You’re going to get 100 different answers out there, right? I mean, some people might talk about money, as you know, maybe it’s freedom or it’s time or it’s security or it’s peace of mind. Right? All these words kind of come to mind, maybe in the more positive vein, but then you can ask people, other people might turn around and say, money is greed, money is evil. Maybe it’s egotistical, it’s a necessary evil. And so it really does go back to what is your money story. And I think, you know, I find that really, really fascinating to really kind of start diving in to see it’s not about money itself.

Shawn Carlin 00:42:09  It’s about your relationship to money. Right.

Katy Ripp 00:42:12  Which is just an energy as well. Right? Money is just an energy to one of the things that I’ve been asking my clients, which sort of throws people for a loop is what’s your first money memory. Right. Like my first money memory is my parents sitting around a dining room table arguing about the bills. Who knows when that was. Maybe I was 6 or 7. You know, it was like more often than not that there was some sort of argument. The second money memory I have is my parents divorce and how messy it was, not because of the kids, but because of money and so just finances in general. Even though we had money, we were raised in a very scarcity mindset. So and then one of my clients in my group coaching had said her first money memory was her first paycheck. Right? So like mine was sort of a negative, like, oh God, my parents had this like charged relationship with it, but hers gave her like, oh my God, I have my own money.

Katy Ripp 00:43:10  It gave me the freedom to do what I want to do. And so like your first money memory, really thinking back to what is it? We don’t even think about money that way, right?

Shawn Carlin 00:43:23  One question I like is, you know, when I was younger, money was blank and like, fill in the blank and you can think about, like, you know, when I ask people in conversation like, I mean, let’s come up with a few, like, you think about the most common, you know, the big ones, like money doesn’t grow on trees, right?

Katy Ripp 00:43:39  Actually it does. I mean, in.

Katy Ripp 00:43:42  Theory, it actually does.

Shawn Carlin 00:43:44  You know, but like people will come up with that one all the time, right? You know, the other popular one is, you know, money is the root of all evil.

Katy Ripp 00:43:51  Yes. You hear money as hard.

Katy Ripp 00:43:54  It’s hard money as hard. Like you have to work hard to get money. And that was a tough one for me, because my work ethic for so long was tied to my character and therefore the harder I worked, which in my mind meant the more miserable I was, the more money I made.

Katy Ripp 00:44:16  And so I just like was not really willing to be miserable for money. And that’s what kept me from making money basically is like I wasn’t ready or willing to fit into the mold of my own money story. It’s a real mindfuck.

Katy Ripp 00:44:32  It really is. And it’s, you know, I think.

Shawn Carlin 00:44:34  Of that first step is awareness, though, right? Like, not many people spend the time really thinking about like peeling back the layer of the onion to say, where does this come from? Yeah, right. And you know this through probably what you’ve studied. But most of your subconscious belief system was developed by age seven.

Katy Ripp 00:44:49  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:44:49  I mean, also so fascinating, right? We’ve got all these years on seven year olds and we think we know more.

Katy Ripp 00:44:55  Right.

Shawn Carlin 00:44:56  That’s also why those first seven years are so critical.

Katy Ripp 00:44:59  To.

Shawn Carlin 00:44:59  The development of a child’s brain because that’s, you know, basically what they are is they become a product of their environment.

Katy Ripp 00:45:05  It’s their parents.

Katy Ripp 00:45:05  You have 15 year olds like I do.

Katy Ripp 00:45:07  We haven’t totally fucked them up.

Katy Ripp 00:45:09  Not completely. Right? Not totally.

Katy Ripp 00:45:11  I mean, there’s you know, we still probably gave them a chance.

Katy Ripp 00:45:15  Yes. Yeah.

Shawn Carlin 00:45:16  When I talk about all these things, it’s not to say that they’re all negative things that we’ve implanted in our children. Right. But when you do start to think about some of those things that, you know, whether it was intentional or not, it was passed on from your parents, from their parents, from their parents, and it was passed on to you. And so, you know, when you look at that foundation of really how and what you think and you’ve heard the analogy, you know, your beliefs become your thoughts, right? And then your thoughts create an emotion. Those emotions create actions or in many cases in action, depending on where they’re coming from. And then those actions are in actions. Create your outcomes. Basically create your life. And if you can picture that more in a concentric circle. It’s all woven together because eventually.

Shawn Carlin 00:46:00  Then your outcomes then reinforce your belief system. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:46:04  Whether it is what it is, it’s not good or bad, right? Like they are just what they are. It’s the energy you give them.

Shawn Carlin 00:46:11  Right? But it’s also seeing them because they work on subconscious autopilot. And so 95% of your day you are operating on your subconscious autopilot. These are all stories and narratives that have defined who you are and who you think you are. And so if you’re wondering why you’re going through your day, right? I mean, you think 60 or 70,000 thoughts per day, 90% of them are the same thoughts you had the day before. And a majority of those thoughts are either negative or don’t serve your higher self. And so every day you’re getting out of bed thinking the same thoughts, those same negative thoughts, right, that are driving those same negative emotions, creating that inaction that creates the outcome. And then you’re wondering, why does my life suck so bad right now? Why do I feel stuck.

Katy Ripp 00:46:55  And.

Shawn Carlin 00:46:56  You can’t figure that out. And so what you do is you go to the external environment to try to figure it out. Well, life is doing this to me. My boss is doing this to me. My wife is doing this to me, my husband is doing this to me, and everything is external to try to justify what’s going on. Meanwhile, it’s really coming internally. But it’s really hard because you don’t see it. Yeah. Now, I think digging deeper and deeper and deeper to get into when you get into even money issues, to me, they’re not money issues at all. They’re issues of self-worth. Yeah. And so somebody to me who says they don’t want, you know, I just want to make 100 grand, you know, again, whether it’s 100 or 2, 50 or 80, you know, the number to me doesn’t matter. But if it is sort of a you’re putting a cap on yourself. If we really start to dig in, what does that say about you? At some point, I bet I could trace back to their childhood that there was some issue of self-worth that they adopted as their story.

Shawn Carlin 00:47:53  Right? And that story is playing out in every element of their life beyond money. It’s playing out relationally. It’s playing out in their career, it’s playing out everywhere. But until you have the ability to get down to the, you know, I say, look, the content is your story. Everyone’s got a story of why things are happening in their life. And, you know, right. You sit down, you talk to them. Even as coach, people are going to start going about their story. Well, when you can get out of the content and get into the context, get into that subconscious belief system of what’s driving everything. That’s where you can find the gold and where you can finally release and see the untruth in that. And once you see the untruth in that sort of that limiting belief, then everything else becomes available. So to me, yeah, we can speak about money, you know, in the properties of money and things of that nature. But I think in the end it really gets down to like, what is that core limiting belief that’s really driving all of your decisions, you know, going forward.

Katy Ripp 00:48:53  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:48:54  I’ve gotten into a lot of value work. Right. Like really digging into what people value, what I value, the set of values I have that was different from the set of values I had five years ago, ten years ago, 15 years ago. Pre kids. Post kids, pre business post business pre Speidi post. You know these kind of things. And really when I got down into it I started digging into what do I really want. And continuing to ask yourself until you can find the real answer what do you want. You know like right now I want a snack. Okay, fine. But what do you really want? Right? Like there’s this constant circle of getting into and around money. I think they’re all kind of connected, right? Like when you talk about relationships, when you talk about money. To your point, it’s probably the same limiting belief that is affecting all of those pie shapes on the.

Katy Ripp 00:49:51  You.

Katy Ripp 00:49:51  Know, Wheel of Life. But what do you really want out of life? Okay, well, I want $100,000.

Katy Ripp 00:49:57  Okay. What is $100,000 going to give you? Well, I don’t want to have to worry about money anymore. Well, okay. What’s the worry about money? What are we worrying about? Because is it security like are we worried about, like, ending up on the street or are we worried about impressing somebody else? Right. Like getting really honest with yourself. It’s okay. Like there’s no good and bad if you want to impress your neighbor. There’s nothing wrong with that. But be honest that that’s why you’re trying to make the money. If that’s the answer that somebody else told you you should have. Maybe not impressing your neighbor, but that you should buy a house rather than rent because that’s somebody else’s story, then be honest about it. If you don’t want to do fucking yard.

Katy Ripp 00:50:43  Work.

Katy Ripp 00:50:44  Just because your dad says it’s the only way to live the American dream is to buy a house.

Katy Ripp 00:50:49  No, I’m.

Katy Ripp 00:50:50  Going to rent for the rest of my life because I don’t want to do yard work.

Katy Ripp 00:50:54  So really getting honest. And that’s sort of where this like, actually I can tag comes in, right? Like you actually can do whatever you want, right? Like you just have to be really brave and really honest with yourself. And again, there’s like that, you know, lovely dopamine hit that we get like happiness out of. Right. That’s great. Right. Like there’s lots of ways to get it real fake. You know that dopamine hit. But to stay at a level where things aren’t super high and super low but stay at the sort of content level, I think that’s where the secret sauce is. And that’s like the authenticity and the real honesty and the real bravery and the real putting yourself out there in a way that aligns with who you actually are. And I think that takes a lot of time. One of the things I wrote before was like, you don’t have.

Katy Ripp 00:51:49  To blow.

Katy Ripp 00:51:50  Up your life to do this shit. We see, like you had said, the Daniel, is that his name from the dude ranch? Right? Like he left a business after 38 years and came, you know, like, went out and was a cowboy.

Katy Ripp 00:52:02  Cool. If that’s what he wanted to do. That’s amazing. But you don’t have to, like, completely blow up your life in order to get some of this thing. You can do it inside of your life. So I’d love to hear about, like, what your ex account does. Are there some practical steps that you like to give to people? We’re definitely going to share all of your, you know, handles, and I’d love to get people to follow you and work with you and that kind of thing too. So we’re going to get there. But I’m curious if you’ve got some like go to things.

Katy Ripp 00:52:32  Well, I think it’s just key.

Shawn Carlin 00:52:33  I think the most powerful thing you can do for someone is just provide a different perspective. Right. One of my favorite quotes, Marcel Proust, is the journey of new discovery is not in finding new lands, but in seeing with new eyes. And I just love that. I’ve loved that for a long time, and I think it just sits with me about, you know, helping people see a different perspective, the lens that you where are you wearing glasses right now and the lens that you’re seeing.

Shawn Carlin 00:53:00  The world is your perspective. And I think we’re naturally brought into this world as a human being. The system is naturally limited. The way I see it, I get in this conversation a lot about like, what’s the meaning of life, right? I don’t know, it’s where the hell are you? Meaning you want to give it. That’s the meaning. But purpose. To me, purpose is a really different thing. Or like a really meaty discussion you can have. So me purpose is to transcend these limitations. Like we’re born into this world as a human being, and we’re born with the set of natural limitations, inadequacies, you know, scarcities. And the whole idea is to become aware and to transcend, to see that that’s not who we are. And like me, this is like the mission that I’m on in my own sort of personal quest. It ain’t easy doing that.

Katy Ripp 00:53:48  Know what I.

Shawn Carlin 00:53:49  Think? You know, sharing some of these perspectives that, like. Look, as a coach, I want you to see, you know, I mentioned we don’t have problems, that you don’t have a problem.

Shawn Carlin 00:53:58  What if you did not have a problem at all? And the only thing that’s getting in the way is just sort of your perception of how you’re seeing the world, right? There’s absolutely nothing wrong. It’s just sort of what you’re giving meaning to and the perception that you’re giving your world. So if I can help you, you see with a new lens, then to me that like, that’s super powerful. To me that’s like freedom.

Katy Ripp 00:54:18  Yeah. In the end.

Shawn Carlin 00:54:19  If like, somebody’s like, all right, what do you really Hawk and Shawn, you know, and what you’re doing. You know what? What do you do for people? I’m like freedom. Like, yeah. In the end, that’s what I would like to be able to provide. Because if people are living in that sort of limitation, I’m like, we’re all sort of struggling to become like a perfected version of our limited selves.

Katy Ripp 00:54:38  Yeah, right. That’s one. Yeah, I like that. Right. Like it’s.

Shawn Carlin 00:54:42  Really hard. You just keep doing this. You’re bumping up against the ceiling. Why? Because you’re living in this constraint of limitation. And until you’re able to, like, see that and break out of that, you’re just going to keep trying to perfect those limitations.

Katy Ripp 00:54:56  Oh.

Katy Ripp 00:54:56  I love that. I might have to write that down. I’m going to definitely keep this recording. One of the things that you said before about your girls and rolling their eyes, right? I have been called a professional eye roller. Just so we’re clear that I win at that. What I have discovered, though, is all those things that we roll our eyes at, right? Like all of the things the journaling, the meditating, the digging deeper, the changing our perspective, I mean, those are all the things that fucking work. I’m serious. Like all the things that I’ve rolled my eyes at professionally for years are the things that have worked for me. And by work, I don’t mean like I’m winning, right? Like there’s no trophy for this shit, but has put me on that really nice little level, right? Like that level of contentedness, that level of non-judgment.

Katy Ripp 00:55:49  The more I used to judge people, the more I judged myself. And I hear all the time. Right. Like, I just I wish I could not care what people think about me. You can. Yeah. It’s a lovely place to be, let me tell you. Right. Like I just don’t put that much energy into it anymore. As long as I’m living by my core values and I am aligned with that, and my core values are of a right nature when we’re talking about right and wrong. Right? Like when I’m living by those core values and I know in my body when I’m misaligned, I know it. I’ve done a lot of work to connect my mind and body together, that when something doesn’t feel right, it’s not right for me. It’s misaligned with my values. And so I’ve done enough work to dig into that, to know that I don’t really have anything to apologize for anymore. Because my thing, I don’t say anything or do anything really, that’s against what my values are.

Katy Ripp 00:56:52  Does that mean that everybody loves what my values are?

Katy Ripp 00:56:55  No.

Katy Ripp 00:56:56  No, sir, they do.

Katy Ripp 00:56:58  Not.

Katy Ripp 00:56:59  But mostly I’m only attracting people that do right.

Shawn Carlin 00:57:04  Like I’ve seen how that works,

Katy Ripp 00:57:06  That’s so weird.

Katy Ripp 00:57:07  I just, like, I don’t have to deal with that stuff because I just don’t attract those people anymore. I did for a long time because I was misaligned and the universe was like, oh, you’re asking for this. So here’s this person to teach you this fucking lesson.

Katy Ripp 00:57:22  Yeah, well, it’s such a great point.

Shawn Carlin 00:57:24  You bring up Katy. You know, you’ve probably heard this, but your triggers are your treasures.

Katy Ripp 00:57:28  Oh, I just.

Katy Ripp 00:57:30  Actually, I just heard that for the first time not too long ago. I had to sit on that for a while.

Katy Ripp 00:57:35  It’s hard, but like.

Shawn Carlin 00:57:37  And I’ll share a quote from Peter Crone, who is one of my mentors, and I love the guy, but this one I had to sit with two. But it’s. It was.

Shawn Carlin 00:57:42  Life will bring you people in circumstances to show you where you’re not free, you know, and you have to be open to that right? When you get triggered, normally the first thing you want to do is go after somebody. It’s external. It’s them.

Katy Ripp 00:57:53  Yep, yep.

Shawn Carlin 00:57:55  But if you truly want to be free when I say free, I’m not. You know, we’re all in a free country, but living free of a lot of these limitations. It’s when you get triggered, can you have the humility and the accountability to step back and say, all right, where am I contributing to this? What am I learning here about me, and where am I still stuck?

Katy Ripp 00:58:16  Yeah, yeah.

Shawn Carlin 00:58:17  One of the things I want to add to us about X, and I think one of the key ideas, and this is where I get into like my the tough love piece of what I do a little bit. It’s not all woo woo, but it’s accountability. It’s 100% accountability for everything that you’ve created in your life to this date, good and bad.

Shawn Carlin 00:58:34  You created. Yeah. Now I’ll get a lot of pushback on that, because I know a lot of people could throw a lot of really, really crappy things that have happened. And I’m not saying it’s ideal. I’m not saying everything is, you know, rainbows and butterflies. But what I’m saying is, like when you talked about life sort of having your back, this is sort of life’s way of helping you become the best version of yourself that you can be in the way that you take these setbacks, and the meaning that you give to those setbacks is going to determine sort of the pace of how you do that. And it doesn’t mean when something really awful happens. We don’t grieve and we don’t mourn or whatever, but it’s sort of like, look, if you can step back and just sort of see eventually the lesson is there always is. We’re all in our own karmic journey and what we’re doing here. But like when those triggers happen instead of like next time, instead of getting pissed at your spouse, stepping back and just say, you know, how am I creating this myself? That’s 100% accountability.

Shawn Carlin 00:59:34  And if you truly want that personal freedom, because the other side of that equation is being the victim 100%. Being a victim is really powerless.

Katy Ripp 00:59:42  And.

Katy Ripp 00:59:43  That continues to perpetuate. Right. Like I think victim mode begets more victim mode. Absolutely. And freedom begets more freedom. I mean, I really cannot tell you the last time I was really triggered by something because like, those lessons just come less and less for me. Do I need to be corrected sometimes?

Katy Ripp 01:00:04  Yes, absolutely.

Katy Ripp 01:00:05  But I am so much more in tune with those corrections from the universe come to me that I can very quickly realize that was misalignment. I know it, I feel it in my body and now I can make a different decision instead of I’m a terrible, fucking awful person. I’m a lazy piece of shit. I don’t do anything right. I have put our family in this situation. I mean, you know that just like keeps rolling and rolling and rolling. Yeah. And those things for me personally, because I’ve gotten really honest with myself.

Katy Ripp 01:00:42  I just don’t have them very often. Now again, do I get triggered? Sure. And are there some things in my life that I could turn around and say no thank you to? I could have done without that. Plenty of things. However, I can look back at every single one of those things as a gift now. Every single one did. I want my father in law to die? Absolutely not. Right? Like I would love to have him here with us. The lessons that came out of that experience for me has shaped me into the almost 46 year old. I am so thankful for the lessons he gave me in that experience. I didn’t kill him right? Like I had nothing to do with that, except that I can now be thankful for what that experience gave me. Absolutely many, many experiences. I think you’ll also hear, you know, Caitlin Payne was on here not too long ago about Riley. And also, did she wish that on anybody? Absolutely not. But she also is so thankful for the perspective that Riley gave her the ability to raise money in Riley’s name.

Katy Ripp 01:01:53  Right? Like all of those things, you have to sort of be open to them, and it takes a lot of time. I mean, time isn’t linear in a lot of ways. I do think in that way, in grief and in really being able to accept some of these things, it is sort of a gradual it cannot be forced. It has to be sort of a consistent attitude of gratitude, that rolling eyes. Right? Like nobody likes to hear attitude of gratitude, especially me. But it is that like consistent on most days I feel really grateful for these things. Some days I don’t, but on most days I do. And so therefore it’s just started to be less and less that something triggers me.

Shawn Carlin 01:02:38  Yeah. Sometimes I’ll say, if they said those same words to you in Mandarin, would it hurt the same?

Katy Ripp 01:02:43  Oh, that’s so good. Good one.

Shawn Carlin 01:02:47  Just like.

Katy Ripp 01:02:47  So good. But so when.

Shawn Carlin 01:02:49  You think right, it’s like hot air over vibration is coming out.

Katy Ripp 01:02:52  Right? Yeah.

Shawn Carlin 01:02:53  And it throws you into this oblivion emotionally. And again, I know that’s easier said than done, but when you really have the ability to step back and be like, no, it’s the meaning I’m giving it.

Katy Ripp 01:03:03  Yeah.

Shawn Carlin 01:03:04  Something triggers in you because you have this feeling about yourself that was validated through what that person said 100%.

Katy Ripp 01:03:12  Right.

Katy Ripp 01:03:12  Like you just some level.

Katy Ripp 01:03:13  And sometimes we just want to be right and I want it to be right forever. The ego.

Shawn Carlin 01:03:18  Always wants to be.

Katy Ripp 01:03:19  Right.

Katy Ripp 01:03:19  Oh, my ego lives real high on the horse for a long time or high in the hog. I think it’s high in the hog. Right?

Shawn Carlin 01:03:28  It’s one of those horse hog.

Katy Ripp 01:03:29  Whatever. Whatever cliche horse. I do love me.

Katy Ripp 01:03:32  I love me a good cliche, but we get real confused about ego, right? There’s ego and then there’s ego. I don’t know exactly how to say it, except that my particular ego love to be right. And I remember in some book that I read some articles, some podcasts, something along the way, would you rather be right or would you rather be happy? And those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Katy Ripp 01:04:00  Sometimes you can be right and be happy. And I think I like I sit in that a lot right now, but for so long I wanted to be right. And even the thoughts in my head when I was telling myself, you’re lazy, which was my favorite thing to tell myself you’re lazy. I would do something to be right. Like I just wanted to be right all the time.

Katy Ripp 01:04:24  It’s amazing how we’ll.

Shawn Carlin 01:04:25  Fight for our own limitations. Right to.

Katy Ripp 01:04:27  Be right.

Katy Ripp 01:04:28  To be right, just to be right. And at times, you.

Katy Ripp 01:04:31  Know, it’s.

Shawn Carlin 01:04:32  Not serving you well at all, but you would rather be right than be happy or free.

Katy Ripp 01:04:37  Yes.

Shawn Carlin 01:04:38  And that, to me, is probably at the core of every marital dispute that ever existed.

Katy Ripp 01:04:44  Ever in the history.

Katy Ripp 01:04:46  Of marriage.

Katy Ripp 01:04:47  Because it’s.

Katy Ripp 01:04:48  So true. And the less I want to be right, the happier my marriage is. Ask my husband. I mean, I’m a total know it all and I want to be right.

Katy Ripp 01:04:57  And the less I’ve done that, like the further away I’ve gotten from those things. And they sound kind of funny now, but they were just keeping me where I was. And when I sort of let that go, I mean, letting go is the biggest thing. All of these things sound very simple. And they are they are just not easy. It’s not easy to start. It’s easier to maintain. I think when you get into a it’s just habitual, right. Like now I’m just in a habit of thinking the best outcome rather than the worst. And the universe just loves to see it. And so she just keeps giving me more like just more and more. The other way is also true, right? Like if you just like, are in a perpetual victim mode, she just gives you more of what you’re asking for. She just gives you more of what you’re looking for to be right. I could talk about this shit all day long.

Katy Ripp 01:05:53  Oh, I know we could write.

Shawn Carlin 01:05:54  We could throw out a lot of cliches and lots, you know, like what we.

Katy Ripp 01:05:57  Resist persists.

Shawn Carlin 01:05:58  Right? Like.

Katy Ripp 01:05:59  I mean, my my favorite one of.

Katy Ripp 01:06:01  All time is there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Katy Ripp 01:06:05  I mean, we.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:05  Just got a new kitten.

Katy Ripp 01:06:07  I’ve got 40.

Katy Ripp 01:06:08  Kittens at.

Katy Ripp 01:06:09  Home. That’s right.

Katy Ripp 01:06:11  I mean.

Katy Ripp 01:06:12  Really.

Katy Ripp 01:06:13  I just don’t know.

Katy Ripp 01:06:13  How about don’t.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:14  Beat a dead horse? That one. I’m always like, well.

Katy Ripp 01:06:16  Yeah, don’t throw.

Katy Ripp 01:06:18  The baby out with the bathwater.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:19  Yeah, it’s a bad visual.

Katy Ripp 01:06:21  Also horrible. Wow.

Katy Ripp 01:06:24  We. I could go down that path for a long time.

Katy Ripp 01:06:27  But it shows you the.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:28  Power of.

Katy Ripp 01:06:28  Language.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:29  Right? I mean, that’s in essence, you know, anything that is holding you back and maybe, you know, I know we’re coming up on time here, probably.

Katy Ripp 01:06:36  Of no, there’s no time. But when you think about that.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:39  Right. The only thing holding you back from being like, completely limitless, abundant you is your thinking. And again simple but not easy.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:52  How do.

Katy Ripp 01:06:52  You see it like to.

Shawn Carlin 01:06:53  Be able to pay attention to it.

Katy Ripp 01:06:55  The language part is so fascinating to me and I’m also guilty. Everybody’s guilty of this right. Like you say something let’s say in a therapy session or in a coaching session or whatever, and the person reflects that back to you. Right? Like that’s one of the skills that I learned was like reflecting particular pieces of language back to the client. And then it’s, well, I didn’t mean it that way. And I’m totally guilty of this, too. Like, I didn’t mean it that way. I didn’t mean to say that word. I didn’t mean it like that. Language is so important. I mean, it’s not to call somebody out. It’s just to make them aware of. What are we really trying to say here? I don’t know if there’s, like, a good example of this, but when somebody says, I’m a lazy piece of shit, right? Like, oh, I didn’t mean it like that.

Katy Ripp 01:07:48  I’m actually not lazy. Well, lazy must be the word. Like there’s something there. And so digging into that a little bit and not getting so defensive about, like I said it, but I didn’t mean it. Mostly those words have some meaning behind them, whatever it is. So if you’re a client of mine and I’m reflecting those words back to you, I’m sorry, but not sorry.

Katy Ripp 01:08:11  Not sorry.

Shawn Carlin 01:08:13  I’m calling you out.

Katy Ripp 01:08:13  But I’m not.

Katy Ripp 01:08:14  It’s out of love. Out of love. That’s okay. It’s out of love.

Katy Ripp 01:08:18  I’m calling you.

Katy Ripp 01:08:19  I want the best for you.

Katy Ripp 01:08:19  But it’s I, I do, I do, but.

Katy Ripp 01:08:22  I do think you need to.

Shawn Carlin 01:08:22  Call people’s best sometimes, right? Because the story This just speaks to how powerful it is, right? You’ve lived this story for so long about who you think you are that it’s become your truth.

Katy Ripp 01:08:35  Yeah, and.

Shawn Carlin 01:08:36  It’s just a story.

Katy Ripp 01:08:38  It is.

Shawn Carlin 01:08:39  And in many cases, it’s not your fault.

Katy Ripp 01:08:41  It’s so many.

Katy Ripp 01:08:41  Cases. It’s not.

Katy Ripp 01:08:42  True.

Shawn Carlin 01:08:43  And it’s not true. That’s the other key. And so yeah, you know, in the absence of believing, you know, when you are able to dissolve. So when you already know like it’s like speaking to we didn’t kind of get to on the money side of like abundance. But the one of the thoughts I had was like, you know, you don’t seek abundance, you don’t find abundance. It’s already there.

Katy Ripp 01:09:03  It’s already.

Katy Ripp 01:09:04  Here. It’s just waiting for you. I have like visual above my head of like all of these like, Donald ducks with, you know, stacks of cash or whatever. It’s just waiting for you.

Katy Ripp 01:09:18  To.

Katy Ripp 01:09:19  Receive it and there’s enough to go around. I say this to clients all the time, especially people that are starting new businesses. Right. Like this person has this business too. Well guess what, there’s Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks.

Katy Ripp 01:09:34  Yeah, right. There’s Target.

Katy Ripp 01:09:35  And Walmart. There’s Old Navy and Gap.

Katy Ripp 01:09:38  There’s. Right. Like there’s I mean, that’s a bad example because they’re owned by the same place, but there’s 8 billion people in this world. 8 billion. We have no idea what that number means. None. Half of that are women. Right. So my demographic is a woman. Likely. So. 4 billion women in the world.

Katy Ripp 01:09:59  I only need like 100. Yeah, right. Like make a meaningful impact.

Shawn Carlin 01:10:05  And what you’re trying to do.

Katy Ripp 01:10:05  Right? Right.

Katy Ripp 01:10:06  Like, to be very honest, I need one. I want to inspire one person. That is really all I am looking for is to inspire one person. The rest of them are cake. And because I know I’m aligned and because I know what I’m putting out is hopefully inspiring people. Is making someone’s life better or the world as a whole. I know I’m going to get paid for it because I’m going to do something really cool with that money. Like that’s just how I’ve started to look at that and I love it.

Shawn Carlin 01:10:41  You know there’s $900 trillion of wealth out there.

Katy Ripp 01:10:44  900 trillion. We have.

Katy Ripp 01:10:46  No idea what that is.

Katy Ripp 01:10:48  What that number represents.

Shawn Carlin 01:10:50  So you know, I love the comment you made about, you know, somebody who maybe felt guilty about making money. But, you know, if you really think about it spiritually or even religiously, if you think about how God would you would the energy of God be more aligned with abundance or scarcity?

Katy Ripp 01:11:06  Right.

Shawn Carlin 01:11:07  God is he’s making everything abundant for every everybody, every person. So to me, this idea that, like my religion tells me that I have to feel guilty or stay small as it relates to the idea of money, I’d say is absolutely Ridiculous.

Katy Ripp 01:11:22  Yeah, right.

Katy Ripp 01:11:23  Somebody said to me one time, and I might get the statistic wrong. I will look it up to make sure I’m right. But the difference between 1 million and 1 billion. Do you know how many 1,000,000 seconds are?

Shawn Carlin 01:11:36  No. Enlighten me.

Katy Ripp 01:11:37  12 days.

Shawn Carlin 01:11:39  12 days.

Katy Ripp 01:11:40  12 days is 1,000,000 seconds.

Katy Ripp 01:11:41  Do you know how many seconds? 1 billion is.

Shawn Carlin 01:11:44  Exponential.

Katy Ripp 01:11:45  33 years, 33 years.

Katy Ripp 01:11:48  So I’ve got.

Shawn Carlin 01:11:49  A trillion, right? I can’t imagine what that is.

Katy Ripp 01:11:51  All right. Like our, you.

Katy Ripp 01:11:52  Know, lifetimes. Right. So, like, people don’t understand when you hear like he’s a billionaire, she’s a billionaire, you know, millionaire or whatever. It’s just words like the meaning behind it is so crazy to think about. Yeah. And we just can’t grasp it. It’s sort of like, again, I don’t want to go into business because I don’t want to compete with that thing or that person or that product or that location or whatever. Dude, there is plenty to go around. Yeah, plenty to go around.

Shawn Carlin 01:12:24  I try to stay with the mantra, like because I say a limiting belief. For me, growing up was there was a scarcity mindset. And so when I even think about transitioning into a new business, right, I have all these responsibilities of my kids and colleges and weddings and, you know, and I want to provide.

Shawn Carlin 01:12:39  But I think one of the mantras I try to, you know, allow for me to repeat was just this idea of I’ve always had enough. I have enough today, and I’ll always have enough. And to me, like just believing in that kind of helps me get out of that sort of scarcity mindset. Because you mentioned it earlier about, you know, just it’s a sense of security and you want to be safe and you want to make sure you’re taking care of people and, you know, you can get caught up and all that chatter and all it does is it prevents you from doing that thing that you really want to do, right?

Katy Ripp 01:13:09  Like, what do you really want?

Katy Ripp 01:13:11  Do you want to provide endless amounts of cash to your children, or do you want to provide them experience or, you know, whatever that I mean, that’s just an example. And my husband and I have had this conversation a few times. You know, if you want an X amount of dollars, do you want that X amount of dollars in your bank account, like just sitting there looking at you, staring at you, and that will make you feel better? Or do you want things that are worth that much, right.

Katy Ripp 01:13:39  Like because there’s a difference between that dollar amount just sitting there staring at you, and either that dollar amount going to work for you, that dollar amount sitting in the garage, that dollar amount being, you know, wrapped up in your mortgage payment, that dollar amount being in vacations, whatever. Right. Like we need to be able to quantify what we really want. And this goes for small businesses. I want to make $100,000. What does that mean? Do you want is that your net profit? Is that after all, expenses or is that your revenue? And I asked people that question and they’re like, well, I don’t know. Well, you’re going to have to know because you need to know what you want in order to feel secure or feel free. Or again, these are like questions that you just need to feel like that’s the first layer of. Right? Like, do we want revenue or do we want profit? Do we know the difference? Like that’s just the first layer of the onion, right?

Shawn Carlin 01:14:36  Clarity is so.

Katy Ripp 01:14:37  Important.

Katy Ripp 01:14:37  It’s so important. And the more questions we can ask, the two questions that I’m into right now. And if you take nothing else away from this, which I kind of feel like if you don’t take anything else away from.

Katy Ripp 01:14:50  This, we.

Katy Ripp 01:14:50  Should really talk.

Katy Ripp 01:14:53  But I hope there was.

Shawn Carlin 01:14:54  Something good here.

Katy Ripp 01:14:55  One is, is this true? Just is this story is this comment? Is the chatter in my head actually true? And what do you really want? If there was only two things that I could get into with people right now, those are the two things. What are you two things.

Katy Ripp 01:15:16  I’ll.

Shawn Carlin 01:15:16  Just add yours. And I think the idea of if it’s not true, right. In the absence of that belief, what becomes available. Because if you’re absent of this belief that I’m not enough, let’s just use that because that’s, you know, very generic, but I think it’s very common. And fill in the blank, I’m not enough. Whatever. I’m not worthy or I’m not loved, whatever that sort of core limiting belief is, when you find it and you see the lie that’s in that it’s not true, then in the absence of that, what becomes available.

Shawn Carlin 01:15:48  So if you’ve lived this idea that I’m not enough for my entire life and it’s sort of through that filter, it’s limited to me in just about every aspect of things that I’ve done. Then in the absence of that being truly free of that scene, it’s been a lie. Like what’s available to you. Like that’s limitless.

Katy Ripp 01:16:07  Again, it’s so.

Katy Ripp 01:16:08  Hard to wrap your head around that.

Shawn Carlin 01:16:10  It is. But I think that’s where, like, you’re taking a glass, one glass is off and you’re putting on another one, and you’re seeing the world that way for the first time. Yeah. And that, like, is where the power lies and where you can really help people, like, transform into seeing the world in a totally different way. It’s subtle, but it’s so powerful, right?

Katy Ripp 01:16:29  So powerful. And to piggyback off you, right, like, this is just a lovely table tennis game. If somebody else like I can never do that. I could never be a pediatrician, let’s say, whatever it is.

Katy Ripp 01:16:43  Has anybody ever done it? Yes. Of course, like somebody has become a pediatrician. What is holding you back from doing it? What are we limiting ourselves from? Am I not smart enough? I don’t have enough money to go to college. I don’t have enough, enough, enough, enough to do that thing. Take all of that off and just see, just see. I think one of my values is curiosity and just wondering, like, I just want to see what that’ll look like. I just want to see what that feels like. I just want to. I just want to know. I just want to see if I can do it. That’s actually, unfortunately, what got me into the Army.

Katy Ripp 01:17:23  I just want to check it out.

Katy Ripp 01:17:25  No, literally. I just wanted to see if I could complete basic training. Just wanted to see. Well guess what. After 2001, that meant that I also wanted to see Kuwait. That’s a real story. I wanted to see if I could get through basic training.

Katy Ripp 01:17:42  And I got the National Guard.

Katy Ripp 01:17:44  Commercial got me.

Shawn Carlin 01:17:46  That’s a great story. Careful what you wish for, right?

Katy Ripp 01:17:49  Oh for sure.

Katy Ripp 01:17:52  Tell all of these people where they can find you, how they can connect with you if they’d like to, how they could work with you.

Shawn Carlin 01:18:00  Yeah. Great. Look, I’m still in the infancy. You know, if anything connected, you’ll find me at Shawn Carlin five on X. That’s where I’m doing a lot of posting of a lot of these ideas. And I’m happy if anybody wants to want, I’m starting a newsletter. So what weekly newsletter? Just put all these ideas into something with a little bit more consistency and then happy to, if anything resonated and somebody just want some help. I’m happy to do some coaching. I’m not sort of officially in my business, but I am officially into helping anybody who needs some and would love to, you know, share some of my ideas with whoever’s interested. So feel free to reach out through my X account.

Shawn Carlin 01:18:38  You can DM me there and happy to connect.

Katy Ripp 01:18:41  How about how do we get on your newsletter?

Shawn Carlin 01:18:44  That’s on my X account as well. There’s a link in my bio.

Katy Ripp 01:18:47  Okay, which.

Katy Ripp 01:18:48  For those of us that are not on X, it’s the former.

Katy Ripp 01:18:52  Twitter.

Shawn Carlin 01:18:52  Former Twitter. Yes, trying to get in the habit.

Katy Ripp 01:18:55  I know you’re making Elon Musk very proud.

Katy Ripp 01:18:57  I’m there because.

Shawn Carlin 01:18:58  It’s a little bit more for me, as I’m still sort of in my career and sort of just starting to post on ideas. You know, I’ll probably start moving out into more of the more familiar Facebook Instagrams here in probably short order, but for the time being I’ve kind of kept most everything there for now.

Katy Ripp 01:19:15  I love.

Katy Ripp 01:19:15  It. I saw a meme this morning that somebody sent me. It said space X and X are now in Texas and nobody has used the meme. All my exes live in Texas. I had a good chuckle out of that one.

Katy Ripp 01:19:30  If I could go.

Shawn Carlin 01:19:31  Viral on that one out and I credit you somehow.

Katy Ripp 01:19:33  On X, but you can. Yeah you can. Could use some.

Shawn Carlin 01:19:36  Engagement.

Katy Ripp 01:19:36  Really.

Katy Ripp 01:19:38  Shawn, this is so good.

Katy Ripp 01:19:40  It was.

Shawn Carlin 01:19:40  Awesome.

Katy Ripp 01:19:41  Really enjoyed. I love this. We should do this way more often. We should like on a regular basis. We’ve talked about this, but I think now that we’ve, like, broken through.

Shawn Carlin 01:19:50  Yeah, we’re really good at ham and egging together. Just kind of like ping pong and.

Katy Ripp 01:19:54  I love it. I mean.

Katy Ripp 01:19:54  Well, I could have done this all freaking day long. Yeah. All day. I mean, that’s no joke.

Shawn Carlin 01:19:59  No, I know, I know, I could talk about this stuff forever.

Katy Ripp 01:20:01  What is your ideal client? You know, you say you’re in the infancy. I don’t think you’re in the infancy. I think you’re more in the adolescence. But that’s just my opinion. Who would you say is your ideal client?

Katy Ripp 01:20:11  It’s a really.

Shawn Carlin 01:20:12  Good question, I think. You know, everyone wants you to get into the avatar and, like, get really specific and really struggle with that one.

Katy Ripp 01:20:19  Me too. Me too.

Shawn Carlin 01:20:21  My account says executives and entrepreneurs, you know, so I think that’s probably the natural fit for me is to go into, you know, it’s going to be mindset based sort of mind transformation, but in that sort of executive entrepreneur space where I know, again, it’s still pretty broad. But think about I want to help people who are suffering or a mental suffering like that’s that’s a pretty broad. There’s a lot of that going on today.

Katy Ripp 01:20:43  And well.

Katy Ripp 01:20:44  And it will it’s a pretty good job. Security.

Katy Ripp 01:20:47  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:20:48  So yeah this was lovely. Thank you so much.

Katy Ripp 01:20:53  Okay. Awesome. Okay. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Shawn.

Katy Ripp 01:20:59  And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further.

Katy Ripp 01:21:14  And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at Katy Ripp dot com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember, #ActuallyICan.

Erin Tomlinson 00:00:00  People have these thoughts or feelings about what homeschooling is, and I think it’s a little bit to do with programming and how we’re told, you know, this is what happens when you homeschool your kids. They’re these latchkey kids. They don’t speak. They’re sitting around the table and we’re mending socks or whatever it is. But that is not at all what homeschooling is.

Katy Ripp 00:00:18  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defying what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie, you’ve come to the right place.

Katy Ripp 00:01:05  We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go. 

I think that there’s so much around homeschooling that people don’t understand. And much like sobriety. You guys are like normal people that homeschool their children. I think that there’s like major misconceptions about this. So I sort of want to give you guys a chance to, like, tell me what you love about it. Tell me what you have learned through this process. Tell me. Kind of like what made you think, actually, I can fucking do this. I don’t need anybody’s permission. I can just do it. Any kind of pushback you guys have gotten, I think everybody’s like, biggest question is, are your kids going to be social? So welcome. Kensey and Erin. I am so excited to have you guys. You know, I both love you so much on so many different levels, but I would love if you guys would give me a little intro.

Katy Ripp 00:02:06  So, Erin, maybe we could start with you.

Erin Tomlinson 00:02:08  Sure. Erin Tomlinson I know Katy because we are I think we’re chronic entrepreneurs kind of. And our brains work a little bit differently where there’s really no slowing it down, no stopping, and exchanging ideas really brings us joy or brings me joy. Anyway, I don’t even I can’t even tell you how long I’ve known you or how we met, but I know it was through all the Cross Plains peeps, I’m sure. And yeah, lot has changed probably since we first met. I’ve stopped drinking too. It’s been about a year and a half and yeah, I’m homeschooling my kids. But yeah, you motivated me for that too. I have to thank you. I think you got me actually sober, curious, like, oh, maybe I could just stop drinking, too. And here we are.

Katy Ripp 00:02:51  But there was no time that you were, like, working for the man.

Erin Tomlinson 00:02:55  Oh yeah. Yeah I was doing pharmaceutical sales. I did it for about 16 years.

Erin Tomlinson 00:03:00  You get the company car, you get all these little benefits. And to think that you are going to leave those behind with the big salary was unquestionable. Like why would you do that. And I think I had always wanted to work away from being under the thumb of somebody else telling me what to do and how to do it and when to do it. And so I was always trying to make other businesses on the side to overcome that income, so I could leave the full time career.

Katy Ripp 00:03:26  And you did.

Erin Tomlinson 00:03:27  It. Did. Yeah. I’m doing real estate now, which I think is great. And again, it’ll work its way into the homeschooling conversation because now I can show them that you don’t have to necessarily go and work for somebody if you don’t want to. You can. But there’s other ways of making money and doing what you love and doing it when you want to do it too.

Katy Ripp 00:03:44  Yeah. Because actually you can. Yeah.

Erin Tomlinson 00:03:47  Exactly.

Katy Ripp 00:03:48  Exactly. Okay. Well, welcome. Thanks for being here, Kensey, my friend.

Kensey Hering 00:03:53  I’m Kensey Hering. I’ve known Katy. Oh, boy. Let’s see. I started at Harbour Athletic Club when I was still, like, nannying and in college.

Katy Ripp 00:04:02  So would this be, like, was Myles little?

Kensey Hering 00:04:05  Yeah. I babysat Myles and Madeline when they were, like, three. You guys had just gotten Greta.

Katy Ripp 00:04:11  Oh my God. So she’ll be 10 or 11 this year. Yeah. So a while. Yeah. Lots of paths have crossed since then.

Kensey Hering 00:04:18  Yes. Very much yeah. 1909 coffee shop. Yeah. I just always adored working for you. It was always so fun.

Katy Ripp 00:04:27  Dabbled in some entrepreneurship as well.

Kensey Hering 00:04:30  Yes, I do a Wild Fawn boutique. I have an online clothing store, and then I do some pop ups here and there. And yeah, now I just stay home with my kiddos and I homeschool them.

Katy Ripp 00:04:43  Okay, so let’s talk about homeschooling. One of the reasons I wanted to have you guys on here is because I really do think that there’s so many misconceptions about homeschooling out there like this probably has for me personally, had a lot of similarities to sobriety, because I think that there’s lots of misconceptions about sobriety, but also that there’s like not normal people doing it right.

Katy Ripp 00:05:05  Like you have to be some sort of like wacko in order to stay home with your kids, homeschool them. Right? Like you’re all wearing long skirts and bonnets and like, the generalizations. I could go on and on, right? Like, mute, their mute, mute, you know, they have no social skills. What do you do for Jim? I mean, all these, like, really naive questions or ignorant maybe is the right word. I think some of it comes from naivete, but others does come from ignorance. And one of the things that, like I admire about the both of you is basically you just both said, fuck it, I’m doing this anyway in the face of that. And I think that that’s So I don’t really love to use the word brave because it is just like you just made a choice that was aligned with your values. So like, that’s not necessarily brave. It’s just like it’s just authentic. And I think that we lack that these days. So I’d love to just like have a conversation about it.

Katy Ripp 00:06:06  Tell me about like I mean first maybe tell me about how you even thought about it or decided it or how it crossed your mind. I’m guessing it took a little bit, maybe, of convincing of yourself and maybe convincing of other people. So I’m just going to kind of let you guys roll and we can ask questions as we go. Is that cool? Yeah.

Erin Tomlinson 00:06:26  I think for me it was I had done some, you know, self-development and I really dug into who I am. And and once you start going down that path, you really take into account all the things happening in your life and how you want your child’s life to be different than what you grew up with. And again, not saying mine was bad, wrong or terrible, but there’s just certain things that you want them to thrive, and you want to be able to give that to them and cut off some of those generational patterning. My kids are in private school. So you think this is great? Things started to go haywire with the school we were at.

Erin Tomlinson 00:06:58  So then you start to think, oh my gosh, you know, what are we going to do? We’re just going to switch to another school. We’re going to go to public school. What are we going to do? I wasn’t entertaining public so much just because faith is part of our life, and it was important for us to have that as a portion of the program. But it was like the day before they were supposed to go back to school. My stomach was just retching and saying, you can’t do this, you can’t put them in this situation. There was instances with bullies at school. There was all different things. And I kept thinking, my kids are not going to have my values if I just shuffle them off to somebody else to teach them for eight hours a day. And so, to my husband’s dismay, I said the day night before, I said, I can’t send them tomorrow we’re going to homeschool. And he was like, I’m sorry, but excuse me. What? What is.

Kensey Hering 00:07:44  That? What? What’s this?

Katy Ripp 00:07:46  What was that?

Erin Tomlinson 00:07:47  Oh, right before school was supposed to start. But I think the driving force was, you know, if we were to switch to a different school, there would have been problems there, too. For me, it wasn’t just spent 100 and it would have been what I want for my kids anyway. My son is a little bit advanced, so I can keep up and tailor what we’re doing to his needs. And the same goes for Charlie. Charlie’s more artistic. She just can’t sit for eight hours a day and, you know, be told what to do. So that was kind of how we rolled into it. It was unconventional a little bit later in their school career, too.

Katy Ripp 00:08:17  Can I ask? Well, yeah, age of the kids would be great to like, give us some context because you guys got different age kids here and what are ages?

Erin Tomlinson 00:08:26  My daughter’s almost ten and then my son is 11, so fourth and sixth.

Katy Ripp 00:08:31  Okay. And you can see.

Kensey Hering 00:08:32  My son will be seven in September. So he could kindergarten last year. And he’s it’ll be in first grade this year. And then our daughter is five and she’ll do kindergarten.

Katy Ripp 00:08:44  Okay, Erin, since you brought it up, husband, everybody’s got to know. This is the dramatic part, right? Like everybody’s gotta know how the fuck you did that. What did he say? Like, how did that go down? You know.

Erin Tomlinson 00:08:58  It wasn’t wonderful. It was a little harder than I thought it was going to be. And I’m going to skip back a little bit to what you said about people have these thoughts or feelings about what homeschooling is. And I think it’s a little bit to do with programming and how we’re told, you know, this is what happens when you homeschool your kids. It’s they’re these latchkey kids. They don’t speak that, you know, they’re sitting at around the table and we’re mending socks or whatever it is. But that is not at all what homeschooling is on.

Katy Ripp 00:09:25  It’s on.

Erin Tomlinson 00:09:26  Yeah. The bonnets and the aprons. Yes. And the long skirts. Exactly. And for me, it was, you know, when I went down this whole self-development path for me or like, self-discovery or whatever you want to call it, it was like, I want to do things differently. I don’t need to go with the whole herd. I’m going to be the black sheep that’s going to do things different. And this was one of those things. So it wasn’t necessarily convincing. Matt. In the beginning, he wasn’t super wild about it, and I think he had a lot of concerns and didn’t know how it was going to go and didn’t really even have any exposure to homeschooling. But I will tell you, over the course of the year, he has seen such a dramatic change, not only with me, but also with the kids. And even when he’ll throw his little quizzes out to them, they’re Johnny on the spot with some of that stuff because again, he’s not here to see, so he doesn’t really know.

Erin Tomlinson 00:10:17  And I don’t, at the end of the day say, okay, today’s lesson plans were, you know, A to Z. And we talked about genitalia and algebra and what.

Katy Ripp 00:10:26  He’s not the principal.

Kensey Hering 00:10:28  Thing. They are for my lesson plan.

Katy Ripp 00:10:32  Mr. Tomlinson. I just write for your.

Erin Tomlinson 00:10:35  Approval, sir.

Katy Ripp 00:10:36  Yes, for your approval, sir. Not exactly.

Erin Tomlinson 00:10:41  So I could look back on that part at the beginning. Part was a little bit challenging, but over the course of the year and even now, I think his response and you know, what he would tell you about homeschooling is completely different. And I’m grateful for that, because when you are taking a risk or you’re doing something against the grain, you are going to get, you know, even people in closest to you like, are you sure? What the hell?

Katy Ripp 00:11:02  What don’t you think that’s the most like the most pushback is the people closest to you?

Kensey Hering 00:11:08  Oh for sure.

Katy Ripp 00:11:09  Yeah. Tell me Kensey.

Kensey Hering 00:11:11  Well we’ve been doing it for well I guess our kids went to like Orchard Ridge Nursery School for a little bit in Madison.

Kensey Hering 00:11:19  The two older ones did and they loved it I loved it, we loved it. There was nothing wrong with it. And then it came time for Ryder to go to Faucher, who was coming up on, you know, being a for care. And I don’t know, I think I have like looked at this probably since he was like three years old being like homeschooling. Okay, what the heck? And I never even imagined myself staying home with my kids, let alone homeschooling them. So. And my mother in law works at our school district. All my nieces and nephews go there. My husband and I went there kindergarten through high school and like my husband’s aunt works there like just all over to her and works there. Yeah. And yeah, my husband was just like, you want a what? And I was just like, okay, hear me out. And he was like, no, I want them to go to school. And I was like, okay. But it’s not how it was when we were there.

Kensey Hering 00:12:19  Like it is. So it’s not like that at all anymore. And I just was like, well, I know them. And we actually writer went to 4K for a couple of months from like, so we started off homeschooling and then in October we like pass the school on our way to anywhere. It’s on the highway. And one day he was like, I kind of want to try going there. And I was like, okay. So we got him signed up and he went the next week. He liked it. And then all of a sudden January hit and he was like physically hitting me, kicking me, punch me just to go. And I remember he would wake up in the middle of the night and be like, do I have to go? Is it time to go? I don’t want to go. And then he like hid outside of our house from the bus and I was like, where are you? Where are you? And he like, finally came out from around the corner and he was like, I just don’t want to go.

Kensey Hering 00:13:12  And I was like, well, do the school would call me even if you didn’t show up or you’re just gonna stay out here all day. And he was like, yeah. I was like, okay, well. And I think that was just my gut feeling of like, okay, no, like he is a pretty smart little dude and he’s very common sense. And he I asked, I said, what do you want to do here? Like what’s going on? And he was like, how many times do I have to tell you before someone will listen to me? I want to do home school again. And I was like, okay. And I pulled him out. I didn’t tell anybody. I just did it. And I mean, I consulted my husband for maybe five seconds, but.

Katy Ripp 00:13:53  Just out of courtesy. Yeah, I guess. Right.

Kensey Hering 00:13:56  And I remember he was like, well, you can’t just let him choose every day. Like, it’s just something you do. You go to school, you don’t like it.

Kensey Hering 00:14:03  And it’s like, yeah, but not to this extent. I was like, he comes off that bus and he’s such an angry little boy. I’m getting the worst of him in the morning and the worse of him in the afternoon. And then that’s all I get. It’s like, I don’t want that. I don’t want to spend my mornings being rushed and be like, get out, get out, get out, go go go. Bye. And so here we are and we love it. We enjoy it. And yeah, my husband was like, well, I don’t want him to be Weird. And I’m like, dude, all of us are weird. Our kids are weird, whether you like it or not.

Katy Ripp 00:14:38  We made weird children.

Kensey Hering 00:14:41  And so, I mean, our kids are some of the most social, outgoing kids that we know, and they don’t stop talking. So no, they are not mute children. Sometimes I wish there was a mute button for a little bit, but everybody thinks homeschooling is weird.

Kensey Hering 00:14:59  All of our friends kids go to school in public school, and I don’t have anything wrong with our school district. I like it, I love it, but there was just something deep down that was like, I don’t want to do this. We’re going to try this and we’re going to see how long it goes.

Katy Ripp 00:15:15  Both of you have said you trusted your gut as a very intuitive person. And the more I get into, like really peeling back the layers on myself and trusting my body and trusting the feelings I have and that kind of thing. The fact that you both separately said that you trusted your gut, and while trust your gut is sort of a cliche, it is also like there’s like gut brain access and like things that we do between our gut and our brain. And, you know, that’s where that actually came from. But how much of that was I’m just doing this right, like both of you have said, like there wasn’t really a question. I’m just doing it. You said you started thinking about it.

Katy Ripp 00:16:01  Kensey at like three years old, you know, when Ryder was three. How long do you think it took you to, like, know that that was the right answer for you and you to Erin?

Kensey Hering 00:16:11  I would say like once, gosh, even Remi was enrolled in, like, Orchard Ridge Nursery School for like a week two years ago, I guess, and I decided, okay, I’m gonna homeschool writer. He’s not going to 4K. And so then all of a sudden I was like, okay, but this doesn’t make sense that I’m sending one child to a preschool, and then I’m keeping this one home. And so I guess I decided, okay, I want that slow morning with them. Like, I literally every day hear the bus go by and I’m like, oh, we’re all still here. And I just, I think the slow mornings are just my absolute favorite thing. And that was my gut feeling of, I don’t want to sit here and yell at my kids from the time that they wake up, get dressed, do this, get this.

Kensey Hering 00:16:55  Come on, you gotta eat. Come on, come on, come on. And there was this thing that I thought of. When our kids are newborns, our babies are newborns. It’s. You center your whole entire schedule around their sleep. And then as soon as they hit four. Okay, 7 a.m., you’re up. You’re out the door, you’re going to eat this, you’re going, do this, do this. My kids are not ready to eat at 7 a.m.. I’m not ready to eat at 7:30 a.m.. The amount of times that I did not eat breakfast before I went to school, just because I don’t want to eat that early, and I’m not ready to start my day that early. And it’s just, I don’t know, I think the gut feeling, I think for a while there, it was really hard because my mom and my mother in law were like, oh God, like, I’m just so worried about them. And it’s like, well, sorry, we got Doris stomach problem, but.

Katy Ripp 00:17:46  Got the meat of what I want to get into because, you know, I have this like first circle, second circle theory in my world. And for me, it’s like around starting a business, right? Like you started a business. And the first circle are like the people that love you the most, right? Like mothers, mothers in law or, you know, in theory. Right? Let’s just say that parents, siblings, immediate family. Right? Like friends from high school, best friends, you know, whatever. And it’s that like first circle and then you have this second like core of, you know, second circle of or second layer, I guess, of friends, acquaintances. I kind of call them like your Facebook friends, right? Like the people that you don’t necessarily hang out physically with. But, you know, they’re acquaintances, they’re customers or clients or whatever. And that second circle is usually your most supportive. And the first circle is not. And this took me a really long time to like, embrace.

Katy Ripp 00:18:43  But once I did, it saved my poor tender heart because I was like, oh my God, my heart keeps getting stomped on because nobody that I thought would be my biggest supporters in my business are. And I think that there’s lots of theories around this. One of them is like, to your point, Kensey, I’m worried, right? Like it does come from a place of love, right? Like it comes from a place of, I just love you so much. I don’t want to see you fail. I don’t want to see the kids get hurt. Like it does come from a place of love. And then there’s kind of another place where it comes from. Where this doesn’t fit into my mold.

Kensey Hering 00:19:17  My normal.

Katy Ripp 00:19:18  What am I going to tell my friend? They’re going to be what? Right then it’s fear, right? Like then it’s fear of judgment. So there’s sort of a place of love and a place of fear, and they’re kind of in that first circle. Does this make any sense to either one of you? Oh my gosh.

Kensey Hering 00:19:33  Yes, very much.

Katy Ripp 00:19:34  So. I’m just curious. Like what that first circle. Right. Like the first person in our first circle for all of us probably is our husbands. Right. Like so you are. Yes you are. You know, like okay by proximity. They are the first ones. But, you know, you sort of get over that hump. Right? And I’m sure that they had like some fear of judgment and fear of, you know, whatever. Then there’s the mothers and the mothers in law or, you know, parents, grandparents, siblings. Tell me about that kind of experience. And before we get too far into that, I want the listeners to understand that in no way does anybody think that the people that you’re about to talk about are bad people, right? Like they all just have opinions. Every time somebody like goes to talk about something that is about somebody else, we’re always like, well, they’re really good people. I know that it came from a good place or whatever.

Katy Ripp 00:20:32  Like, I understand that, right? Look, we understand that your parents are nice, your family is nice or whatever. It’s just that it comes from a different place. So anybody care to share?

Erin Tomlinson 00:20:43  Well, I think to that point there’s a lot of projection of I came from this. This worked for me. You’re doing it different. Like you said, there’s this unknown of how is that even going to look. And yes, these are my grandkids or these are my nieces and nephews. What’s up with that? You know, I don’t want them to be the weirdos. What’s happening? So I think a lot of it comes from just people’s own experiences in life. Personally, I didn’t get such a bad rap from that first layer you’re talking about. My sister was supportive. I think she’s even dabbled with the idea in her own mind. I think about my mom. She was really supportive because as I mentioned earlier, my son’s, you know, he has some extra ability and that wasn’t being catered to.

Erin Tomlinson 00:21:25  So she saw that as, oh, this is great, I think you should do it. My dad offered to teach things. He’s like, what can I teach? So I want to get involved. And that’s amazing. Yes. Can we do economics? I’m like, okay, not that economics know anything but that. And then thinking of my in-laws, I think, again, it was foreign to them, but they know that I am cut from a different cloth and whatever I do is going to be okay, and the focus is always going to be the kids if they’re happy or if for some reason they came to me and said, this homeschooling thing is not working, I’d be like, okay, let’s look at other options. It’s totally fine. And I think they know that too. So I didn’t have from that first layer as much of a question as I did, maybe from some of the periphery layers of, you know, like what you said, well, they’re going to be socially awkward and they’re in sports.

Erin Tomlinson 00:22:12  They have cousins. They talk to more adults now than they ever have in their life. So luckily for me again, Matt, my husband was a little bit like not my jam, but I’m just grateful that, you know, he had his pinnacle and said, this is really a unique experience and pretty cool that we can offer it to our kids.

Katy Ripp 00:22:29  So I definitely want to get into that, like that part of it. So we’ll get out of this negative loop right now in a minute. Kensey, how about you?

Kensey Hering 00:22:38  Yeah, I would say the most pushback. I mean, I feel like my husband is we don’t enjoy confrontation. We don’t like we’re always just like, oh, so awkward anyway. But he definitely was like, what do you mean? Like, how long? What’s gonna I don’t why why? And I mean, I’m the one that does all the research, reads all the books, does all this, like, does just anything. Like if I’m scrolling on my phone, I’m most likely looking up homeschool ideas or Y or any of that.

Kensey Hering 00:23:08  And so I just told him I was like, you know, you don’t have to be here and putting him on the bus like, you’re not here to do that. You’re not here to get them off the bus like I’m the one that has to do that. Not you. And not that it’s me, me, me. But I just said I was like, Ryan, there’s something just at the bottom of my stomach that every time I put him on that bus, I’m like, oh no, like, come back to me, come back to me. So yeah, he was just like, okay, do what you want to do, but we’re going to go to public school at some point. And I was like, okay, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:23:44  One of the things that like, as you’re kind of both talking about it and Erin, I think you and I have had this conversation when you were even thinking about it. I also take care of kids, right? Like I do the schools, the appointments, the paying of the fees, the dropping off, the picking up, the, you know, registration for sports, the, you know, all of that stuff.

Katy Ripp 00:24:08  And so, you know, I suppose somebody out there not probably very likely not the audience that’s listening to this, but somebody out there like that husband should have an equal vote. I don’t know. I don’t know that I totally like for as much work as goes into it. Right? Like there is a decision around the kids that when you’re doing the majority of the work that comes with it, I think that you do get to sort of make the decision, not in a way that like not in a malicious way, but in a way that like, I appreciate your opinion. However, I’m still doing this, right. Like, that’s.

Kensey Hering 00:24:48  Exactly what I mean. I remember I was a text message at like 2:00 on a random weekday and I was like, I understand your concerns, but those are not valid. Like they are valid.

Katy Ripp 00:25:03  But nice try. They are.

Kensey Hering 00:25:05  Valid. But I mean, Ryan is such a social person and like his group of friends is our group of friends and they’ve all been friends since elementary school and all that stuff.

Kensey Hering 00:25:15  And it’s like, yes, I adore that. I want our kids to have that, but our kids do have that. They have that without going to school, they have that. They have friends. They have, you know, they’re loved by so many people. But yeah, I was just like, you know, I not saying that you don’t know what’s best for our kids because you do, but you do in a different way. Like I know what’s best for them in a little bit deeper way, I guess.

Katy Ripp 00:25:43  Well, it’s more intense when you’re the mom especially.

Kensey Hering 00:25:45  And that’s what I was just like, sorry, but I’m going to listen to him on this one. I’m sorry. And he was just like, whatever.

Erin Tomlinson 00:25:53  Well, and you, like you said earlier, you’re the one that’s the responsible one of picking up. I was getting the same thing. I would drop off. Mornings were disaster. Every. Nobody was happy to be up and moving around. And then on pick up, they were exhausted from sitting and doing whatever anybody wanted them to do for eight hours a day.

Erin Tomlinson 00:26:09  So it’s not ideal. And you know what else I’ve realized? Nothing is permanent. So if we decided to homeschool and for some reason it wasn’t working, we could always revisit and say, okay, this is an ideal. Let’s figure out a different plan or vice versa. I think historically you go to one school and that’s it. You never move. But outside of that reality, you have people moving in and out of school districts all the time. So new kids joining school, new kids leaving school, it’s not I don’t know, I just don’t think anything is super permanent. Just like a job. People used to stay at jobs for.

Katy Ripp 00:26:41  The generation of people, staying in a job for 38 years and being really proud of it are over, right? Like people change careers like or jobs like every four years, but careers like every seven now. I mean, I’ve been in 42 different jobs. So for us to like, expect that people stay and do the same thing for 12 years of their formidable lives is sort of a lot to expect of a kid.

Katy Ripp 00:27:07  Yeah. So, Kenzi, I want to give you a chance. Like, I know you’re both your mother in law, and your mom worked for the school, so was there, you know, outside of, like, the normal pushback. Was there anything outside of that or siblings first circle stuff?

Kensey Hering 00:27:23  Well, my mother in law and then my husband’s aunt work at the school. My mom will help out, like with lunch duty. But yeah, my mom, I mean, when I told her, she kind of was like, what? I, you know, she just oh my goodness. She was like, how what? What do you mean you’re going home school? And I was just like, you know, it’s just what I want to do. And I feel like I’ve always done different things than my siblings have, and I just don’t see any problem with that. I guess I look into things just like, you know, a little bit more, I don’t know. But yeah, she was just like, I don’t think this is a good idea.

Kensey Hering 00:28:03  And I remember probably like that initial I typically just spring things on my mom where I’m just like, oh, hey, guess what, Rhonda? Yes. And then, you know, she’ll go home and she’ll probably lay awake for hours at night thinking about this and worrying about it. And like two weeks later, she came over and she was just like, oh, can I stop by? And I was just like, yeah. She sits down. She’s like, kind of quiet. And I’m like, yes, what are you thinking? And she, you know, I just don’t think this is a good idea. And she goes, you know, they need a schedule. They need this. They need a routine, they need some structure. And I was just like, okay, yeah, they will get it here. And I mean, our house is pretty chaotic. We have four kids, three dogs and yeah. So it’s just crazy. But we find, I mean, we have a rhythm.

Kensey Hering 00:28:59  We do kind of the same things every day. Our kids know, like what we’re going to do. And so it might not be the same thing every single day or be written on the wall, but they know what we’re going to do. And then as far as my mother in law, she a poor woman do she actually found out because, you know, I wasn’t going to just, like, flat out tell her because I was like, I don’t know how to tell you. I guess I don’t know. But she found out from my husband’s aunt, which is her sister, who works in like, I don’t know, like the behind the scenes. So she was like, oh, I see Brian and Kensey pulled their kids from school and I was like, whoops. And so she was just like talking to me. And she goes, we’re carrying on like a really normal conversation. She was like, yeah, because, you know, your kids aren’t going to school. And I was like, no surprise.

Kensey Hering 00:29:53  And she was like, why? And I was just like, I don’t know, like, this is just we’re doing this where that’s what we’re doing. And I was just like, you know, my main thing was Ryder can’t sit at a death rate eight hours. He barely can sit down for point two seconds. I mean, he’s just like, what are we going to go do? Where are we going? I want to go outside, you know? And so yeah, she was like, well, what about friends and what about that? And I was like, they have friends. And I also kind of want to have a say in who your friends with. Like there’s some kids where I’m like, oh boy, okay, let’s not go there.

Katy Ripp 00:30:28  Definitely on their own at school. Right.

Kensey Hering 00:30:30  Like, yeah, I mean, I feel like sometimes our kids can be a little bit of followers too. And it’s kind of like what’s not. So yeah, my siblings were just like, okay.

Kensey Hering 00:30:45  I mean, and everybody’s super supportive about it now. I mean, they or they just don’t ask. And I think my mom had such a hard time with it because she would take me back to school shopping and we’d get new outfits. And you had the first day of school and you had, you know, all the holiday performances and yada yada yada. And it’s like, well, they don’t even celebrate. They aren’t even able to celebrate Christmas or do Halloween or anything like that now. Like as what we got to. Yeah. And so it’s kind of like I’m going to keep those traditions. It’s just in a different way. We’re still going to go get school supplies. We just don’t need all of the things. And my mom does a thing with all ten of her grandchildren where she takes them back to school, clothes shopping. And I was like, you can still do that tradition, mom. Like, there’s nothing like going to school. Our kids still need clothes like.

Katy Ripp 00:31:38  Like.

Katy Ripp 00:31:39  And I would still actually really appreciate that if you did that. Yeah.

Kensey Hering 00:31:43  And she was like, oh, okay. And so I think my mom gets so hung up on like.

Katy Ripp 00:31:48  Tradition.

Kensey Hering 00:31:49  There’s not going to be a tradition. There’s not. And it’s just like, yes, there is because I’m going to we still have Valentine’s Day parties. We still do like we still we just do it at home and it’s just us and it’s fun and it’s so. Yeah. But now she does say, and so does my mother in law will be like, how’s it going? Like, how’s school going? And so I think it’s taken them a little while to be like, well, how do I ask questions? How do I make sure?

Katy Ripp 00:32:12  Yeah.

Kensey Hering 00:32:13  And they’re all in sports through our school district. Like we do all the things we go to, the things we are at the school all the time for to watch my nieces and nephews play sports. And so we just we’re not in a classroom there.

Kensey Hering 00:32:27  That’s it.

Katy Ripp 00:32:28  One of the things you said before about your mom, this is the misconception, right? Like you’re either in bonnets and long skirts, mending socks or it’s a fucking free for all right? Like where people are like, there’s no structure, there’s no framework. It’s a total fucking free for all, you know, like you’re obviously laying on the couch eating bonbons, watching Days of Our Lives while four kids are running around doing nothing. Right. They’re like or chained up in the basement, right? Like there’s like, no grounds. No, it’s either completely rigid or complete chaos. And so let’s bridge the gap. Can you guys help me bridge the gap for everybody listening, can you tell me like, also, there’s probably moms out here like myself. I will be very honest. It would be very tough for me to wrap my head around being around my summers, really even, like, driving me crazy, right? Like wrapping myself into a schedule where I’m with my kids from sunup to sundown.

Katy Ripp 00:33:28  Very little break, you know, and maybe this is a total misconception, too. So tell me, like what a day to day feels like? Sounds like, looks like what’s like the favorite thing. You know, it sounds like kind of everybody’s misconceptions in your first circles have changed, right? Like husband’s opinions have changed. And tell me what that progression has looked like.

Erin Tomlinson 00:33:52  So for us, it was really the beginning of the year was focused on not schooling, so it wasn’t we’re going to do eight hours of workbooks or I’m going to school, ma’am, at the front by the, you know, bulletin board, and we’re really going to hammer this out. It was basically it was like a, a detox basically from school, getting out of the thought process that we have to have something going for eight hours a day, because that’s not at all true. Then it was, what are you into? What are you interested in? What should we go try? I mean, we went and learned how to harvest honey from a beekeeper and, you know, put the garb on and did the whole thing.

Erin Tomlinson 00:34:26  We had a neighbor who was an electrician. He taught us about that. We’ve had you know, we’ve just went out and done things with other homeschool groups where we’ve been at places that are usually super packed when other school kids are there, but when nobody else is there, it’s super. It’s the Kennedys, like, yes, yes, because I’m almost waiting for summer to be over because there’s crowds everywhere. But there wasn’t a huge schedule. But there’s things that the kids are responsible for every day, which includes we get up. It’s a slow morning like Kensey described, which is so peaceful and great. I can have some coffee. We make sure all of our chores are done. We have breakfast together, we do workbooks. I can go work out if I want, and the day could be nothing in the morning. No school related or it takes it. You know, we kick off in the morning and get everything done. But school can also be we’re making cookies. And so my daughter’s responsible for all the measurements of that stuff.

Erin Tomlinson 00:35:20  Or we have to go out and feed the chickens and get the eggs. And you know, we even broke it down, like how much chicken feed costs and how much we could get for a dozen of eggs, like, all those things are homeschooling. And it’s not. Again, that was part of the deal with my husband too, is just it’s not going to look and feel like a regular school day. It’s going to be so different, and they’re going to be learning all kinds of things that are actually practical to real life, in addition to some of this reading, writing and math. So it’s not really a free for all. But we do get outside. And when I asked Gunnar what was his favorite part of homeschooling and he did say it was we get to go outside whenever we want, which I think if you really look into how much time boys should be outside, it’s it’s 7 or 8 hours a day or something. So they should be out and being active as opposed to sitting in a desk all day.

Erin Tomlinson 00:36:12  So try to do a lot of that stuff too.

Katy Ripp 00:36:14  But the first thing that comes to my mind is like, what a commitment on your level, like on your end, like as an adult, as the mom, as the teacher, as the instructor, as the, you know, whatever role you put yourself in, that’s it’s a that’s a lot. I mean, I.

Kensey Hering 00:36:33  Always look at it as a.

Erin Tomlinson 00:36:34  Season. It’s going to be a season where I make a commitment. And what’s going to end up happening is I’ll it’ll pay dividends at some point down the road, I’m sure. But I still do get like, to your point, being with my kids all the time is it’s not what it seems like. I said, I can go to the gym if I need to, or they’re older now. So if I need to go to a showing, they can either come along and see how it goes or they can stay home, you know, and do their own thing. But yes, if I had this with littler kids, I don’t know.

Erin Tomlinson 00:37:01  I mean, obviously Kensey can speak to this, but you do have your autonomy still. You just have to find your pockets and work it out with your partner. How that’s all going to go, because I still work and, you know, you just got to fit it all in. But yeah, it’s a commitment. But like I said, I look at it all in seasons. This is an investment period.

Katy Ripp 00:37:19  You must look at everything as a learning opportunity.

Erin Tomlinson 00:37:22  Now 100%. We’re going to Yellowstone. Guess what? We’re going to have so much to learn and so much to talk about. It’s going to be great.

Katy Ripp 00:37:30  Yeah. When you I mean, because I don’t use everything as a teaching moment in my children’s lives, right. Like, it’s not that I don’t do it on purpose. I just it just never really crosses my mind, right? To be like, this is how we pay for things, you know, like so much of that they learn by osmosis. But like talking to you guys, I’m like, oh, I’m missing some, like major teaching opportunities for my kids too.

Katy Ripp 00:37:55  So thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Erin Tomlinson 00:37:59  We’re here for you.

Katy Ripp 00:38:01  Yeah. Kensey, how about you? Because your kids are little and you’ve got littler ones, right? Yeah. I don’t know if you said this before. You’ve got two others.

Kensey Hering 00:38:10  Yeah. So we have a soon to be seven year old, a five year old, two year old who will be three in October and a one year old. So, yeah, I think, you know, when people heard that I was going to homeschool, they were like, how? Like how? And then when we got pregnant with our fourth, they were like, really? Yeah. And so I feel like, what are you doing again? I never used to even see myself staying home with my kids, and now I’m obviously home with them a lot. I still get plenty, plenty of breaks like my mother in law is always helping us out. My mom and dad. My mom is always helping us out. My husband, if I say, hey, I want to go to the coffee shop when you get home, it’ll be like, okay.

Kensey Hering 00:38:59  And he tags in. So yeah, you kind of just I mean, I have a very good village that keeps me sane too. But also we are always on the go. My husband and I parent way better on the go. So yeah, we’re busy, but we’re staying. But we’re choosing to be busy. And like, I mean, kindergarten is a life skills. Like there’s really not a lot of bookwork, there’s bookwork, but it’s more of like, I mean, baking and cooking. We did so much of and it’s just like, you know, you’re doing your main counting that way. I mean, Ryder would so much as take out his tackle box and sort his lures and count and stuff and it’s like, well, there you go. That’s cool. And like, habits and household life skills. So like, I mean, a writer can do a full load of laundry by himself. He won’t fold it or put it away because Ryan and I don’t like to fold it and put it away.

Kensey Hering 00:40:01  Right.

Katy Ripp 00:40:01  We’re also teaching them that. Yeah.

Kensey Hering 00:40:04  But the fact that he can start our washing machine and put it in the dryer and start it is kind of like, cool.

Katy Ripp 00:40:11  Yeah. It’s amazing. I mean, my parents told me that that’s why they had children, right? It was to do chores, right?

Kensey Hering 00:40:17  I used to say that to my mom all the time.

Katy Ripp 00:40:20  My grandkids, I see it to my kids. Oh, yeah.

Kensey Hering 00:40:23  But yes, life skills like grocery shopping. Like we. Yes, we count that as school. Like, yes, that is something that they need to learn to do. And I mean to take all four of them is not like my favorite number one thing to do, but it’s we gotta do it. They need to learn that you go to the grocery store and you have to get groceries. You need to purchase them. You can make a list and you have to take.

Katy Ripp 00:40:48  Four kids with you someday.

Kensey Hering 00:40:50  Yeah. And you know, you always get those comments in the store that are like, wow, cans are full.

Kensey Hering 00:40:58  And where are they off school today?

Katy Ripp 00:41:00  Like, yeah.

Kensey Hering 00:41:01  Yeah, they’ll always ask Ryder, oh, no school today. And they’ll be like later. So we typically like our mornings are spent like, you know, we get up. Everybody kind of just sits and chills for a bit. Probably watch some type of cartoon. We’re not a screen free family. And then we eat breakfast together and then we typically it’s either we’re going somewhere, we’re doing errands, or that we come home for lunch and then our little kids will lay down, and that’s when we typically will do school. And it takes us like an hour maybe to do all of our stuff, which is just so nice. this year might be a little different because Ryder is in first grade, and so it’s just like, okay, let’s we’re going to really focus on some book work because there is stuff that you have to be able to to do. You have to.

Katy Ripp 00:41:57  Commit. And this is like reading time, right? Like you’re teaching reading, which you know, fascinates me because I don’t know how anybody teaches anybody how to read, but it’s a whole different story.

Katy Ripp 00:42:08  One of the things you said before, Kensey, that totally like, I kind of got stuck on it a while, that you parent better on the go. I have never heard that before and like Dale and I are way better parents on the goal. We were way better parents on the goal than we were at home when our kids were little. I mean, we don’t parent our kids at all anymore. That’s so fascinating. I’ve never heard that term before, and I love it because we were just I just couldn’t be home. That’s the part that would really, I think I’d feel like trapped in my house if I felt like I had to be in here. The other misconception here that I’m like, also trying to wrap my head around is you’re not doing school from 8 to 4.

Kensey Hering 00:42:46  No.

Katy Ripp 00:42:48  Right. Like, you can do it any time and it doesn’t take that long. Like we all know that the amount of time that people waste in an office and or in school is colossal. It’s just like so much of it is wasted.

Katy Ripp 00:42:59  So if you know, if you can pack it into one hour, why not do it?

Kensey Hering 00:43:04  I mean, even my niece, I’ll never forget my niece was over because we typically. So we start school next week. So we do it early and then we can end whenever. But I mean, whatever. But there’s my niece was over one day and she was like, wow. Like a lot of my time is wasted standing in line or waiting on other people to get it together. And I was like, oh, bless your heart. But yes.

Erin Tomlinson 00:43:29  That’s preparing her for adulthood. Also, though, you know.

Katy Ripp 00:43:32  To say that like also.

Kensey Hering 00:43:36  Yeah. And I mean and I.

Katy Ripp 00:43:38  Guess.

Kensey Hering 00:43:39  I don’t judge anybody for putting their kids in public school. You do you. I don’t have to. So I’m gonna try this out and tell my husband like get a job. But yeah I mean my best friends go to public school and I remember telling them from the start, like, please don’t think like me making this decision is going to judge you being like, well, you’re sending them to public school.

Kensey Hering 00:44:05  I don’t care what you do.

Katy Ripp 00:44:07  Yeah.

Kensey Hering 00:44:08  As long as your kids are safe.

Katy Ripp 00:44:10  Really like sobriety for me.

Kensey Hering 00:44:13  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:44:13  It’s like here, if you are drinking, it has nothing to do with me. And my sobriety has zero to do with you. Period. same with homeschool, right? Like I don’t care that your kids go to school. I don’t care that your kids are staying home. And I don’t think you’re sitting here judging me because my kids are going to school, right? Like you do. You all do me And we’re too busy mending sacks we have. No, we.

Erin Tomlinson 00:44:37  Cannot focus on your family.

Katy Ripp 00:44:39  Sorry.

Kensey Hering 00:44:39  Mending socks?

Katy Ripp 00:44:40  We don’t even have matching socks.

Kensey Hering 00:44:43  I, mother in law, takes our baskets.

Katy Ripp 00:44:46  Are you guys proud to part? When you started to market chickens for pigs, you can start to barter your socks. Well, good.

Erin Tomlinson 00:44:54  Matching socks for Kensey.

Katy Ripp 00:44:57  Oh my God. Tell me, Erin, you had mentioned something before about homeschooling groups. Have you found a, I don’t know, a tribe?

Erin Tomlinson 00:45:06  Oh my gosh, it’s like speed dating really.

Erin Tomlinson 00:45:08  It’s so fascinating because that was the other thing. I have a weird thing about commitment and just there’s some groups that you have to be, you have to show up once a month or twice a month. If you don’t.

Kensey Hering 00:45:19  You’re out that you have to pay for. Yes. Oh really? Oh yeah.

Erin Tomlinson 00:45:25  Oh yeah. But the question was, did I find my tribe? I have friends that homeschool and we get together and do some things. So it’s really wonderful. And it’s also a good network of people who can say, hey, this is going down. You might want to be interested. One of the things my kid did this summer kids did was log rolling, because one of the homeschool moms like, you got to get in on this. And I was like, fascinating. Yeah, we’ll just we’re we’re going to I want to see people’s faces rolling. We’re log rolling. Yeah. It’s fascinating, but, yeah, for the.

Katy Ripp 00:45:53  Day.

Erin Tomlinson 00:45:54  It’s been interesting. Some people I’ve really jived with and other groups it hasn’t really worked out.

Erin Tomlinson 00:46:00  But again, everybody is doing homeschool differently. That’s a whole nother thing. Not you can’t. You will never get the same answer from two people that they’re doing homeschool the exact same way. It’s all different. People do it at their own pace. People are involved in groups. People are doing online programs. It’s fascinating. The sock thing, totally sewing and darning and all of it. But I this year my focus since last year was the first year I will invest some more time in reaching out to some different groups and see if it’s a match for us or not, but and if it’s not, that’s okay too. You know, we have a couple people. And. Yeah, exactly.

Katy Ripp 00:46:35  I mean, there’s so many groups and, you know, and inside the groups, there’s groups. And, you know, I mean, there’s such a world out there that when you don’t know about it, you just don’t know what you don’t know. And I think when you get into it like that, and I’ve actually I think I’ve reached out to both of you at one level or another, maybe last year, and you guys are too new to it or whatever, but like, we’d love to have, like, give space for people for homeschooling or like come and make, you know, whatever.

Katy Ripp 00:47:07  We’ll teach you how to make espresso or, you know, something like that. We’ve had like entrepreneurship classes from the schools reach out to us, but never like, I don’t know anybody else in a homeschooling group. So, like, there’s so much I think there’s also like a lot of possibility for community connection if you own a business. Right, like you had an electrician, right? Like how what a cool partnership to have. Yeah, I think that’s amazing. How about future for you guys?

Erin Tomlinson 00:47:35  Well, I’m kind of a day by day gal myself. That’s always a loaded question. Are you? What, are you kids going to go to high school? What are they going to do? And I’m like, yeah, you know, that bridge is a little away. So once that once I get to it, I will absolutely cross it. But again, I think that’ll be a just a pow wow moment where we say, hey, how have things been going? Do you want to go to school? If you do, then we’ll try it.

Erin Tomlinson 00:47:58  But again, the thing I think about is gunner might be already through high school classes by the time he’s ready to go. So what’s the point? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I don’t know. It’s up for debate. I’m going to keep doing it as long as we all are enjoying it. And, it sounds like you are I. Yeah, yeah. Very much.

Katy Ripp 00:48:18  How about Kensey? You’re. I mean, you’re kind of far away from that, right? Like, I’m assuming that same answer, right? Like, as long as everybody’s.

Kensey Hering 00:48:24  Yeah, I’m going to keep doing it until I can’t, or they don’t have any interest. I mean, our daughter is a very, like, social person, and I feel like a lot of kids gravitate like a lot of I have older nieces and nephews and whatnot, and their friends gravitate towards our kids. And when I don’t think my kids understand, it’s like they will not be in your classroom. They won’t like they won’t be.

Kensey Hering 00:48:54  But yeah, we’ll be doing I’ll do this until someone tells me I can’t, I guess, or forces me not to. Or if our kids, yeah, are just like, I don’t want to do this anymore. Yeah.

Erin Tomlinson 00:49:06  One thing I did want to say that I think may or may not get lost in this conversation. We talk a lot about schooling and socialization and all the things. But the one thing that and Katy, I think you’ll appreciate this. And even Kensey too, there is a mental health component with our children when we have them one on one or we have them on two. You know, I have both of our kids or a couple of our kids were able to work through disagreements, emotions, all of it. And we’re able to do that one on one. One of the misses that again, school is not bad. We covered this. If you go to school, that’s fine. But I’m grateful because I can have these. I don’t want to call them like mental health conversations, but I can focus on whatever it is that you’re going through and we can address it in the moment.

Erin Tomlinson 00:49:51  It’s not that you’re coming home from school. You had a bad day. I find out about it maybe five days later from a teacher, etc. we’re able to kind of nip it in the bud. Or if you’re not feeling 100, you’re a little bit emotional today. Let’s take a day off or we do something different. So I think that’s another piece of this homeschooling thing that I’m really grateful for, because I don’t think I had that. And I don’t, you know. No, I think it’s kind of a mess.

Katy Ripp 00:50:14  This is like.

Kensey Hering 00:50:14  Yeah, I agree with that. We tend to not do school on Mondays because we’re coming off of a weekend And our Mondays are just very slow and probably some rest in there just to like, chill out and ease our minds. And then instead of expecting my kids to be like, okay, you need to do this. And it’s like, I’m tired. Like sometimes you just even us as adults, it’s like, I’m tapped out. I can’t do this anymore.

Kensey Hering 00:50:44  Even just simple day to day things. We tend to not do school on Mondays. And sometimes, you know, our kids will be sometimes, especially Ryder, he’ll kind of be just like, okay, I’m done. And like the middle of a lesson. It’s like, okay, well, there’s no point in forcing this and arguing with you and then having you be like, well, this is just I don’t like this. I don’t want to do this. And you just come back to it. So like, that’s what is really nice. And then there’s some days where he’ll be like, oh, let’s do another lesson. Oh, let’s do another one, let’s do another one. So then it’s like you’re six days caught up. Yeah. Right.

Katy Ripp 00:51:17  So that’s a perfect segue into my question is like, I’d love to know about, like, any changes you’ve noticed in your kids or yourselves. Like, what is this experience like taught you? How has it changed your perspective? Any enlightening moments?

Kensey Hering 00:51:32  I enjoyed my kids, surprisingly, but instead of like, you know, some people are, you know, like you even said, not that this is a bad thing, but I’m ready for school to start and I just don’t like there is days where I’m like, okay, go away.

Kensey Hering 00:51:51  Like, don’t touch me. Why are we all so obsessed with me? But like, my kids are constantly outside and I adore that because that’s what they need. Especially writer. He has to constantly be doing something with his hands, but I would say he is like, I mean, he seriously was so, so grumpy for that short time that he was going to school all day. And it was just, I mean, he can hold a grudge, Like, do you sent me to school? Like I’m not happy about it. And then I would just say, like, I’ve learned a lot. Like, there’s so much that you never were actually taught in school. Just like. I mean, we do kind of Charlotte Mason type learning, I guess. So it’s very, like slow pace. There’s some art in there. There’s, you know, faith is a big thing. Like, I mean, just learning a lot. I would say I’ve learned a lot myself. Like science wise or earth wise or nature wise or just all of those things.

Kensey Hering 00:52:55  It’s just like, oh, okay, cool.

Katy Ripp 00:52:59  Learn all that stuff as an adult and really be able to like, absorb it rather than like just spit it back out for somebody and then go on your merry way. I mean, every time I learn something new, I’m like, God, I feel like I should know this. Yeah, I.

Kensey Hering 00:53:15  Like.

Kensey Hering 00:53:16  Well, I just think of, like, you know, like nature study is a big thing that we like to do. And so it’s as simple as like looking through a bird book and being like, how many birds of these can we name? And then, like, there’s one book that we have that has bird calls in it or like their songs, and so the kids will hear it and be like, I think that’s an oriole. I think that’s a Robin that’s like, well, let’s go get our book. And so or the fact that they can name, like their plants and their trees is kind of like, oh, that’s cool.

Katy Ripp 00:53:48  One of the things you said too, was like just getting to know your kids. Yeah. Like knowing them on like a level of time that the rest of us don’t get, right? Like, I don’t get eight hours a day with my kids to really get into their emotions or like to know how they deal with some sort of adversity. I mean, I, you know, I get it in the summer, maybe if I’m, you know, if I catch them at the right time. But you know what a gift it is to, like, really know that your kids needs to use their hands, right? Like, or one of them is artistic, right? I don’t know if my kids are artistic, right? Like they go to art class. Yeah. I mean, they could be like, you know, a sketch artist that’s like in the closet. And I would have no idea, right? But, like, you know, if you’re in it every day with them kind of in the trenches with them, I feel like you could get to know them on a totally different level.

Erin Tomlinson 00:54:46  Well and accommodate their curiosities. For example, gunners really into maps and atlases and geography and all that stuff, which I had no idea. And now we can cater to that. That’s exciting for you. Let’s find other avenues where you can do research and really get your fill of that. But to Kensey’s point, you do really get to know your kids more. And I think the other reason why I did this was because I saw everybody’s kid. I off to college. Oh, can you believe they’re graduating? I’m like, oh my God, your kid is that old already, like what’s happening? And I knew that people were going to steal all that time if I didn’t get Ahold of it myself. But yeah, getting to know your kids on a whole different level, buying gifts for them is totally different. I thought I knew what you liked, like, now I can really cater to you, really into X, y, z, and I can get a gift that speaks to that.

Kensey Hering 00:55:32  Oh, so we’re like in a moment of, I mean, writer will be seven in the fall and he’s not into like the little trucks and like playing in the dirt all day. And it’s just kind of like I even said to my husband the other day, I was like, we need to find something for him to do. I feel like he just wants to be. He could play sports all day long. And so, yeah, I mean, he could play catch in batting and do hockey and jump on the trampoline all day long. And so yeah, you do figure out what they want to do. And I feel like also I figured out how they learn the best. Like I’m a very okay, you have to show me like you can’t just tell me. And my husband is like, trying to tell our son, like, hey, you can bat like this, or hey, you can do this. And Ryder finally was like, I don’t know what you mean. Like, all you’re doing is talking, like, I don’t know what you mean.

Kensey Hering 00:56:25  And I was kind of like, hey, like, you gotta show him. You can’t just tell him. So. Yeah. And our daughter could, like, look at something. I mean, for example, the other day they were doing drawing and Ryder was doing it, and then Remy was doing it and Ryder could not do it, and he was just like, oh, this is I, this is just dumb. And I was like, okay, well, it takes like, I’m not a good draw. I never just sat and drew though, but it takes a little bit of patience. And here Remy comes and is like, look at my hippo I drew. And we’re just like, oh dang, that’s pretty good. And then, you know, he took a little bit more patience and just to see him be like, wow, I can do this. And just to be like very proud of himself is just like, it’s fun, it’s fun. I enjoyed that, like.

Katy Ripp 00:57:14  All these thoughts running through my head. One of them is like the fact that you’re teaching them how they learn, right? Because we we really only get taught one way in a traditional school setting. And if you don’t learn that way, you don’t learn like there’s just no way around that.

Kensey Hering 00:57:31  Yeah, well, I told the kids are at at the older tours at VBS and I was like, oh, we’re gonna go to Vacation Bible School this week. And writer goes, if I have to sit in a chair all day, I’m going to be mad. And I was like.

Katy Ripp 00:57:46  Got it, dude.

Kensey Hering 00:57:47  I was like, nope, you get to move your body and he goes, you promise? And I was like, yes, buddy, you’ll be able to stand.

Katy Ripp 00:57:54  I mean, so good to know, right? Like the other thing that’s like really going through my head. And it took me a really long time to get this for myself. I’m almost 46 and it’s like I’m still struggling with, you know, the Basically the school time, right? Like, you know, you’re out of school for a little while.

Katy Ripp 00:58:12  I worked in the school system for a while, so I was on that 730 to 4:00 schedule forever. And then of course, my kids are in school, so it’s 730 to for that. Like that’s hour days. And it took me a long time to realize, like I run out of gas at noon until about three. And so I just like am not productive at that time. But I used to, like, force myself to be productive because that’s what I thought we should do, because that’s the schedule we’ve always been on. That’s what we’ve traditionally been in as Americans. And I just like I had to kind of get out of my own box and say, okay, well, I just don’t work that well. But I do get like another spurt of creativity or inspiration or energy or whatever between 6 and 8 at night. Well, in my mind, I just couldn’t do anything after noon because after 4:00. Nope. Like there’s nothing because that’s the end of the day is 4:00. And so what you guys are basically teaching your kids is like work when you feel like working, right? Like that’s what we should be doing as adults.

Katy Ripp 00:59:19  It’s like work when you feel like work. Now, do I understand that society is like, doesn’t necessarily work that way? Yes. But you don’t have to be that way, right? Like, I don’t have to be that way. I usually take off from 12 to 3 every day. I just, I nap or I eat lunch or I work out or a nap.

Erin Tomlinson 00:59:41  It’s finding your strength. Like, where are you the most? Yeah, if mornings are your jam, God bless. Get after it. If not, there’s nothing wrong with it.

Katy Ripp 00:59:48  It’s fine. Like it’s fine. It’s totally like you don’t need to apologize. You don’t need to do anything around that. And I think what you guys are teaching your kids that it’s okay to be that way, it’s okay to be different than everybody else. And I love it.

Kensey Hering 01:00:05  I also think like, you know, back to like, judgment or whatever. I feel like people are saying, well, what happens when they get a job and they have to wake up at a certain time? I can tell you right now, if we have a hockey tournament and we need to be there at 7 a.m., guess who was the first one up? Like, okay, let’s go, let’s go.

Kensey Hering 01:00:24  We need to go. It’s Ryder. Well.

Katy Ripp 01:00:26  And do we need 12 years of practice to get up? No. Yeah, like you just get up. I mean, I have a flight at 3 a.m. in the morning. Do I have to go to school for 12 years to get up at 3 a.m.?

Kensey Hering 01:00:40  Well, it’s just like that.

Katy Ripp 01:00:41  So it’s like. It’s like.

Kensey Hering 01:00:43  Major, they understand that there’s some things that you just have to do. Yeah, I feel like that plays in with chores too. Like our kids will, especially Ryder. He’ll be like, well, I cleaned up the living room. Can I have some money? And it’s like, well, no, that’s just cleaning up your space. Like, that’s life you have to do. And then when he just did things without being asked, it was like, well, here, thank you. You did it without being asked. It’s not. You cleaned up other people’s stuff, you know, you did that.

Kensey Hering 01:01:11  So here you go. So it’s not just I feel like everybody thinks that they should have expectations and they always need to be met. And I just then started.

Erin Tomlinson 01:01:19  Telling them, like, I just did the dishes. I just did the laundry.

Kensey Hering 01:01:22  I folded.

Erin Tomlinson 01:01:23  It, I put gas in my car, you know, and then after a while it’s like, oh, you know.

Katy Ripp 01:01:27  Doing that to Dale.

Kensey Hering 01:01:29  I am the chronic. Like, we have two vehicles and my husband has a work truck and so he always has his work truck. I will purposely take a different vehicle so I don’t have to stop. And two seconds later my husband will get in the car and it’ll be like really one mile till empty. I’m like, good thing the gas stations on a mile away.

Erin Tomlinson 01:01:50  But then yes, oh.

Katy Ripp 01:01:53  Oh, I want to give you guys a chance to like, say anything about homeschooling to anyone out here if somebody wanted to explore it, right? Like somebody wanted to get into it.

Katy Ripp 01:02:04  Get after it. What kind of advice would you give? Also, are there any resources we can put in the show? Notes that if anybody is like looking to get started or any kind of curriculum you guys use or anything?

Erin Tomlinson 01:02:16  Okay, I have a couple resources I don’t. Again, there’s a Facebook group, there’s all kinds of things. There’s many Facebook groups that you can lean on if you want for resources. There’s 100 or 1000 hours outside as a podcast and a book. Super great. The book has like activities to do throughout winter, summer, spring and fall. So you can come up again.

Katy Ripp 01:02:36  You say that again, Erin.

Erin Tomlinson 01:02:38  It’s 1000 hours outside. They have a podcast, and then they have a book and the book that I just took out from the library, it talks about a new activity to do every single day it caters to. Maybe I don’t know what the age is younger to maybe ten, 11, 12, but there’s something new, a new activity to do every single day, like fall, winter, spring and summer.

Erin Tomlinson 01:03:01  So you don’t have to come up with things if you don’t want to. Pinterest out school is another resource, so your kids could log in and learn from somebody else online. There’s one on one classes. There’s group classes. I’m trying to think what other resources I know of.

Katy Ripp 01:03:17  But I didn’t really ask about curriculum a whole lot. Like, are there only a few homeschool curriculums or are there thousands?

Erin Tomlinson 01:03:25  Oh my gosh, I don’t really even know. But we just I get workbooks off of Amazon and that’s what we do.

Katy Ripp 01:03:32  Okay. So like how does that go back to I maybe that’s another question is like how does this go back into credits for school.

Erin Tomlinson 01:03:39  So you only if you’re homeschooling you have to have what is it 875 hours per year per child. And that’s it. And you just enroll in September. There’s like a time frame between September and October and roll.

Katy Ripp 01:03:52  With.

Erin Tomlinson 01:03:54  It’s like the state says, like, hey, I’m going to be.

Katy Ripp 01:03:56  Homeschooling.

Erin Tomlinson 01:03:56  Like.

Kensey Hering 01:03:57  DP.

Katy Ripp 01:03:58  Okay, Department of Public Instruction, I think it’s called.

Kensey Hering 01:04:01  Yes.

Erin Tomlinson 01:04:02  Yeah. And then you would just record your hours. We just have a calendar and we write, you know, maybe math and, you know, 30 minutes or, you know, we went to see this guy talk about the bees. So we did that for two hours or whatever. You just kind of log all your activities. Okay. But nobody’s been coming to my door to check up on what I’ve been doing. And how often are they doing it? Yeah, exactly. Just the principal comes and check every once in a while.

Kensey Hering 01:04:27  I guess we just think, like, attendance. Yeah. What you said. And then if you average it out from, like, how many days in a year and then whatever, it’s like two hours a day. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:04:39  Okay. Back to resources. Anything can see you got that.

Kensey Hering 01:04:42  I feel like I mean, gosh, I don’t know what it’s ever going to look like if we get to, like, sixth grade and all that, but and I’m like a curriculum hoarder, like, there’s so much out there that is just like there’s a lot out there.

Kensey Hering 01:04:58  there’s a lot of different teaching styles that you can do. There’s a lot of, you know, different things. And I would say the book called Wild and Free, I can’t remember who it’s by. That was so good. It breaks down like how important like outside time for kids are, like just for their health. Their mental health, like all of it. And then it breaks down like different learning styles that you can do or like how many are out there. And then we do like the good and the beautiful for for math. And it’s great. We love it. It’s open and go, which I sometimes I don’t have time to plan things. And also I never liked math. I wasn’t very good at it. So this is just straightforward and it’s everything that you need. That felt a little fluffy for Ryder, where he was just like, get to the point. So then for him, we’ll do like Beast Academy, which is kind of like a comic book type deal, and then they just have like other ways, but then like family style.

Kensey Hering 01:05:58  So like all of our geography is family style and it’s through like books, like literature. But yeah, there’s so much out there. But yeah, that the Wild and Free Book and then Homeschool bravely was such a good homeschool bravely was honestly my just my moment of being like, you know what? I can do this. It doesn’t matter who else is gonna it doesn’t matter what my mom thinks. It doesn’t matter what my in-laws think, like it’s not their kids. I don’t have to please them. I don’t have to do anything that they want me to do. These are my kids. This is my life and not. So, yeah, I can do this whether I have two kids or four kids. Yeah. So that was a really good book. Just any homeschooling book. They’re all good. It’s all what you kind of make it. Yeah, and there’s tons of Instagram profiles to follow, but also it can be really overwhelming, especially if you’re like looking into it. And I have a couple of friends who have pretty little kids or acquaintances and they’re like, when should I start looking into it? It’s like, if you’re thinking about it now, just look into it because it takes a lot of courage to finally be like, okay, I’m going to do this.

Kensey Hering 01:07:10  And especially around like the school year when people are be like, oh, what grade are you doing? What? When does school start? And it’s like, well, actually I homeschool and it took me a little while to get out of being almost embarrassed. And it’s like, well, why am I embarrassed? Like, why am I embarrassed? But it’s also like, I mean, sometimes people kind of look at you like, what’s? And so, so yeah, there’s tons of resources out there though. But yeah, it can be very overwhelming. So it’s kind of do what works for you. There’s tons of curriculum that is just so pretty and so beautiful, but it’s also like, okay, is this realistic? Can I do this?

Erin Tomlinson 01:07:50  There’s also.

Kensey Hering 01:07:50  Teachers Pay.

Erin Tomlinson 01:07:51  Teachers, which is a website. That’s a.

Kensey Hering 01:07:53  Good one.

Erin Tomlinson 01:07:53  And sometimes you can pay for stuff like, oh, it’s Saint Patrick’s Day, let’s do something around that. And you can go in there and get a couple worksheets.

Erin Tomlinson 01:08:00  We did some summer ones like crossword puzzles and all kinds of things. But yeah, that’s a really great resource too, just for worksheets and.

Kensey Hering 01:08:07  Yeah, just for like, I mean, a lot of holiday stuff. So the whole month of December we do like Christmas school. So it’s all like that fun type of stuff. But yeah teacher pay teachers. That was such a good one. That’s a really good one.

Katy Ripp 01:08:19  Oh my God, I love this so much. You mentioned Instagram before and I always feel like people, you know, when you hashtag home school you’re going to get 450,000 different profiles. Is there anybody that you guys like really like that we could add in here. Maybe just like one each.

Kensey Hering 01:08:39  Oh little schools, a little school of Smiths or something. I’d have to look at it that she has some good ideas for like unit studies or just like they have some cool like all about my body or to learn like they have the human body space one. And I think the coolest is like me on the map or whatever.

Kensey Hering 01:09:01  So it takes you to like where you live, what your village looks like, what your town looks like, and then it goes bigger and bigger to like cities. And so yeah, that’s a good one for some resources.

Katy Ripp 01:09:13  Erin. Anything.

Kensey Hering 01:09:14  Kristy.

Erin Tomlinson 01:09:15  Faith I think she was one who was kind of like unapologetic about this is what I’m doing. Stop asking questions. Like, I can ask questions about what you’re doing to. And yeah, and so she’s one of those badass people that I thought, yeah, like, this is so funny. Why do I just rip the band aid and do the dang thing?

Katy Ripp 01:09:31  It’s. Yeah.

Erin Tomlinson 01:09:32  Yeah. Well, and.

Katy Ripp 01:09:33  You said before, like, it can get super overwhelming, right? Like, you can get analysis paralysis, right? Where you’re just like, oh my God, there’s so much information out here. But just do it. Like, just if you’re thinking about it. You don’t have to do it forever. That’s the other thing is, like, you don’t have to stick a stake in the ground and tie yourself to it.

Katy Ripp 01:09:52  Just you can do it for a while. If it doesn’t work, just move on, do it some other way.

Kensey Hering 01:09:57  Even looking up like curriculum and stuff on YouTube and watching them like flip through it is like just really helpful because there’s not like a, there really is not a store that you can go to and physically handle the curriculum and like look through it to see anything. You all you have to do it all online.

Katy Ripp 01:10:19  Sounds like a business opportunity.

Erin Tomlinson 01:10:21  Yeah. Of course. Look at Katy’s wheels turning.

Katy Ripp 01:10:23  Yeah right.

Erin Tomlinson 01:10:24  Always go in these Facebook groups. So and sometimes people are selling old things or you ask to get a business.

Katy Ripp 01:10:31  Right.

Erin Tomlinson 01:10:31  Yeah. But I mean, like I said, I do workbooks off Amazon Spectrum. I mean, you can go to Barnes and Noble and pick those up. Yeah.

Kensey Hering 01:10:37  So I mean something as simple as like cutting skills like that. Like. Yes Barnes and Noble has tons of them, tons of them. And yeah, we do a couple like geography and science ones too, that are really good off of there.

Kensey Hering 01:10:52  And I mean, there’s even I mean, confidence in math is a math curriculum that is on Amazon. And it’s not you don’t have to it doesn’t have to be expensive. They literally say, like, if you have a library card, you can get by with that.

Katy Ripp 01:11:07  Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, that goes with anything, right? Like you can’t do yoga unless you have, you know, a perfect yoga outfit or. Yeah, whatever. Like that’s just not true, right? Like you can homeschool your kids without anything if you really wanted to write.

Kensey Hering 01:11:20  Like just being like, present is like a big like being present and learning life skills is such a big thing. I mean, Ryan or I went, I mean, I went to college for a little bit, but then I was like, yeah. And I mean, he’s an excavation. So it’s like some of the things that he does, I’m like, how do you learn that? Like, I don’t know how.

Kensey Hering 01:11:42  I mean, there’s not a curriculum in this world that is going to teach writer what he wants to do, and I know that for sure. What’s going to teach him is spending time with going and sitting with Ryan, which is probably one of my favorite parts, is, you know, we can go to Ryan’s job site, we can go hang out with Grandma and Grandpa. We can go, right, or I’ll go and get the oil change with my father in law. And he’ll be like, do you know? And it’s just like you’re learning so much more than your.

Katy Ripp 01:12:11  Village, right? Is also like, if they’re bought into it, they also get to participate in the teaching moments, right? Like it’s fascinating. It’s fascinating because they’re making me really envious.

Erin Tomlinson 01:12:25  Freedom is the jam too. It’s great. You don’t have to be somewhere at a certain time. You can do it differently. You can talk about entrepreneurship. You can talk about growing tomatoes like it doesn’t. It’s not like if you actually.

Kensey Hering 01:12:38  That’s my favorite.

Erin Tomlinson 01:12:39  Part is.

Kensey Hering 01:12:40  How many like famous people are actually homeschooled. It’s actually quite, quite wild.

Katy Ripp 01:12:46  Yeah, well, like all of the Olympic gymnasts are. Yeah. Or a portion of their, you know.

Kensey Hering 01:12:52  And I think it’s like Ryan Gosling or someone, he was at one of the award ceremonies and he was like, actually, I really want to thank my mom because she put up with me. But she also pulled me out of school because I was swearing so bad, and she homeschooled me. And let me figure out, you know, that I wanted to be an actor if she let him, you know, dive so deep into filming that. Look at where he is. So it’s like, I don’t think people realize, like, once your kids can hone in on their interests and really give it a go, you kind of can tell what they’re going to want to do, but they’re also going to be really good at it.

Katy Ripp 01:13:28  Yeah, well, 10,000 hours, right? Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:13:31  Giving them 10,000 hours basically. Yeah.

Kensey Hering 01:13:34  Yeah. The freedom is the freedom is huge. Yeah, we adore that.

Katy Ripp 01:13:40  I love it. This conversation went way better than I thought it was going to go. Not that I thought it was going to go. I mean, like, not that I did not think it was going to go bad. I thought it was gonna go amazing. But like, just so much more fascinating than I thought, right? Like I had misconceptions. I had the misconception that it was like, we’re going to sit for eight hours at home and I’m gonna, you know, here’s your lunch, lady macaroni. You know, whatever. I just like that’s how I kind of thought about it. And you can do it differently, right? Like we can do anything differently. And I’m, you know, I’m a huge preacher of that in the, like, real world. So why shouldn’t we be able to raise our kids that way? And the answer is we can actually.

Erin Tomlinson 01:14:22  Actually we can.

Katy Ripp 01:14:23  Actually we can also like I’d love to check in with you guys again, maybe at the end of the school year and you can maybe tell me what you taught this year and like, I’d love to hear about Yellowstone and all the great things on top of it. Would you guys be willing, if anybody was interested in reaching out to you as a resource, would you guys be willing to share your information? I mean, we will share it when we put it in the show notes, but I’m like a.

Erin Tomlinson 01:14:49  $0.99 a minute. So I don’t know if you want to put that caveat in there for whatever randomness.

Katy Ripp 01:14:55  I come up with. Yeah. Yes. And we have a homeschool hotline, please. Yes. Right. Yeah, I absolutely I would love it, I could talk I.

Erin Tomlinson 01:15:06  Was actually thinking about this podcast and I thought, you know what? There’s so many that like it just gets me so excited. I am passionate about it, I love it, I’m excited.

Erin Tomlinson 01:15:15  Not everybody’s.

Katy Ripp 01:15:16  Into it. Might be willing to do like a seminar now, like it’s seminar, but like in my office, like a roundtable, like anybody interested in homeschooling their kids, whether they’re you’re just had a baby or you’re they’re in 10th grade, like, want to come and talk about it?

Kensey Hering 01:15:33  Yes. I could talk all day.

Katy Ripp 01:15:35  Yes.

Erin Tomlinson 01:15:36  I will share my insight in trade for homegrown wheat or flour. I’m really on the hunt for that.

Kensey Hering 01:15:42  I’ll take some sour dough starter bolting.

Katy Ripp 01:15:44  Yes. How are those? Turn ugly. That’s your payment. Into my office is sourdough starter and homegrown wheat. Yeah, and we will darn your socks. That’s right, I will not. My mother in law will in my apron. Yep. Totally. And please wear a long skirt or I think.

Kensey Hering 01:16:05  What’s the other thing is people are always like, oh, the jumper, the denim jumper. You always have a jumper on my,

Katy Ripp 01:16:13  Oh my God, I love it so much. I would really love to do that.

Katy Ripp 01:16:16  I think that that would be really cool. And I think that there would be like if you could reach out to the right people. Right? Like if we all just shared it like, hey, you don’t have to apologize for thinking about it. Just come. Yeah.

Kensey Hering 01:16:28  I think like what people sometimes hear is like, you can do it. Like you’re literally not going to screw up your kids. What’s going to happen? You’re not going to screw them up like you’re either going to put them in the hands of someone else for eight hours, and they could screw them up. So what? I mean, I guess I’d rather screw my kids up and then anything.

Katy Ripp 01:16:48  And not even to say we don’t have to worry.

Erin Tomlinson 01:16:50  Like things happen like Mount Horeb.

Katy Ripp 01:16:53  Yeah, my kids are with me.

Erin Tomlinson 01:16:54  So I don’t have to worry about if someone’s doing something, but.

Kensey Hering 01:16:57  I’m not saying that it can’t happen at, you know, at target, Beltline or anything like that. But I think about, oh my God, like to be that person and to think like, I would be going psycho like crazy.

Kensey Hering 01:17:11  And so yeah, to think about that too is another reason. But you can’t always just fear everything that’s going to happen. But yes, that is one huge thing for me. And also like.

Katy Ripp 01:17:23  Well, and I think it is for a lot of mom. Right. Like especially like first time moms. Well all moms right.

Kensey Hering 01:17:30  But I think teachers can only do so much. Teachers hands are really tied by the government and what they teach and how they teach it. And, you know, there’s some teachers who don’t agree with it, but they love teaching so much that they’re like, I’m going to stick it out because I love my interactions with the kids. And that’s amazing. That’s awesome. But yeah, there’s some things that are so much.

Katy Ripp 01:17:56  Of that too, is like, there’s something wrong when there’s an exodus of teachers leaving, right? Like, I hired a teacher. I know people that.

Kensey Hering 01:18:05  Or just so many that have been teachers, like, I mean, just some people that I follow, not that I like really personally, no, but that have been a teacher and stopped to homeschool their kids is kind of wild.

Kensey Hering 01:18:18  Like it’s just. But yeah. Or just to know like that other people like, you can do this, you can do this, you can start off really slow. You’re not. Your kids aren’t going to be behind unless you just don’t do anything with them. Yeah, I mean.

Katy Ripp 01:18:34  They’re still going to pick stuff up.

Kensey Hering 01:18:36  Oh, God.

Katy Ripp 01:18:37  Yeah. Good and bad stuff. Totally. Right. Yeah. Well, and again, this isn’t, like, imperfect. Perfect. This is like, that’s not the sliding scale is like, public school is imperfect and homeschooling is perfect or vice versa. Yeah. This is that’s not the sliding scale. It’s just there’s just a line between, you know, like we do this and they do that, right? I mean, it’s all like we all have our kids best interests at heart. I mean, full stop. Like we’re trying our best, right, with whatever we’re doing. You guys, thank you so much for being here. Really.

Katy Ripp 01:19:15  Thank you. And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at Katy Ripp dot com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember #ActuallyICan.

Katy Ripp 00:00:00  Everything in life is on some kind of scale between fear and love. Period. Fear is the ultimate thing that holds us back. Love is the ultimate thing that keeps us going forward. 

Hey there fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defining what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie, you’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life. So buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms.

Katy Ripp 00:01:08  Ready to dive in? Let’s go. Hey there. Welcome back to dear Katy. Your shoes are cute. Janna and I are here talking about her shoes. These are Stitch Fix my whole world, the Stitch Fix. I know it.

Janna 00:01:24  Works for you, I love it.

Katy Ripp 00:01:26  Yeah, actually, my whole outfit right now is from Amazon, but I love Stitch Fix. Yes, I just like I love everything about it. I’ve had it for years. I tried it for a while and then I was like, this is not working right? Like they were sending me stupid blouses that made me look like 82, I know, right? Like it was just not good and nothing really fit, right? And then I tried again and I kept everything on the first box. I was like, oh, this person sees me and now I just, I love it. Every single thing I get, I just kept it into, oh, my shoes are from Stitch Fix. Every single thing I get almost I keep.

Janna 00:02:01  That’s impressive. They probably are looking at, like, what you’ve previously captured. Yeah, it’s.

Katy Ripp 00:02:06  Just an algorithm, right? Those aren’t real.

Janna 00:02:08  People. Or maybe you’ve toned in your description. I’m always looking for work appropriate things, but I struggle because I still like to have, like, an edge in my workwear. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:02:18  Can you wear jeans?

Janna 00:02:19  Well, I did today. Okay.

Katy Ripp 00:02:22  Because you look so cute today.

Janna 00:02:23  Thank you. Oh, because it’s Friday. It’s Friday, and I was literally the only person on my floor because it’s.

Katy Ripp 00:02:29  So nobody was telling you you couldn’t wear jeans.

Janna 00:02:31  I mean, nobody tells me, ever. But it’s just like, kind of not. It’s frowned upon. It seems in my department, nobody wears denim, which is just a sad state of affairs. I just love denim. It’s just like I’ve gotten into denim.

Katy Ripp 00:02:47  In the last like, three years, I would say, because I lived in yoga pants. Yeah, I mean lived.

Katy Ripp 00:02:53  And then I was like, I sort of feeling better about my body. And then I was like, once I started feeling better, I was like, oh, I kind of want to dress it right? Like, yeah, throw a little lipstick on. And then it got to a point where I was like, still just kind of wearing a uniform everyday of like hoodies and yoga pants and whatever, like athleisure.

Janna 00:03:14  Athleisure, athleisure.

Katy Ripp 00:03:16  Yes. I was wearing that every day. And then I was like, I should probably like try to make myself up a little bit. And so now I’ve gotten into a little bit more.

Janna 00:03:24  Yeah, you look adorable every time I see you. You look great.

Katy Ripp 00:03:27  Thanks. I mean, I look up to you for my fashion, so.

Janna 00:03:30  Oh, thank you, I really do, I really.

Katy Ripp 00:03:33  Do. I think you have a great fashion style. You always have, though.

Janna 00:03:35  Always, always. If I could wear denim every day, that would be the happiest.

Janna 00:03:40  I mean, there was maybe a wind suit.

Katy Ripp 00:03:42  In there that maybe in seventh grade.

Janna 00:03:44  That was not great, but, you know, or my hippy years, those are the ones we can.

Katy Ripp 00:03:50  We still made hippie look good like you were committed to hippie at least.

Janna 00:03:53  I mean, I my, some of my very good friends call my stages like Barbie, like I was a Barbie before Barbie became like this generation of like I went through Cheerleader Barbie, then I was hippie Barbie. Barbie? Yeah, I did Hippie Barbie for a long time, and then I was.

Katy Ripp 00:04:16  How long do you think you were in Hippie Barbie?

Janna 00:04:17  I think like five years, like all through high school and maybe the next year after. And then I became Mountain Guide Barbie when I moved out west. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I moved home, and then I was Biker Barbie. Uhhuh. For a while.

Katy Ripp 00:04:31  Yeah, for sure.

Janna 00:04:32  Teacher Barbie, Teacher Barbie. And then from then on, I’ve been mom Barbie.

Janna 00:04:38  Oh, I was a librarian. Librarian Barbie. That one. Yeah, but, like.

Katy Ripp 00:04:41  Still sexy, like.

Janna 00:04:43  Sexy leg.

Katy Ripp 00:04:44  Librarian. Yeah.

Janna 00:04:45  So the stages of I.

Katy Ripp 00:04:47  Like this stage fits you the best, I think you. Yeah.

Janna 00:04:50  Like the the denim, the edgy. I went to get new denim the other day because I have an embarrassing amount of denim. And I always want kind of weird talking in a different decade about validation. I opened the curtain because I it was a pair that I it’s not typically my style and it was a younger woman. It was at Madewell which I love their denim. If you haven’t tried their denim and she’s like, you look snatched. And I’m like, yeah, I do.

Katy Ripp 00:05:22  Okay, thank you very much. What what kind of denim?

Janna 00:05:26  They’re kind of like the ones you were in today. They were high waist curvy and then they were wide leg crop. But it was just the weight. Getting the curvy was significant because I have a large rump and my waist is smaller than my body and it like snatched it in and like that.

Janna 00:05:47  Yes, it was amazing. So I left there. I text my cousins the link to get these denim and I said, everybody needs these. I wrote, you all need to be snatched. Snatched up Oh my God, that’s so funny. Because snatch deeds means a very different.

Katy Ripp 00:06:04  Thing in my world.

Janna 00:06:05  Right? 100%. I won’t give you the story, but yes, when we were younger. Yeah, we’re.

Katy Ripp 00:06:10  Really like mans now in snatch means.

Janna 00:06:13  Exactly 20 years ago. That is not what it meant. Even seven days before I went to Madewell, it was not what it meant.

Katy Ripp 00:06:23  But now we’re embracing Snapchat.

Janna 00:06:25  Yeah, so there we go.

Katy Ripp 00:06:27  Oh my God, that’s so funny. Yes, I actually texted Janna right before I left for the Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks concert, because I got a pair of wide leg jeans so good in my Amazon box, and I like them. They fit good. I think that they’re wrong for me, but they’re not.

Janna 00:06:44  They’re perfect.

Janna 00:06:45  They’re so cute.

Katy Ripp 00:06:46  I, I walked out and I told my sister she’s like, oh, those are different jeans for you. Which, you know, whatever. And I was like, yeah, nobody complimented me at work today. So I kind of feel because usually they do, right. Like I walk in every day and they’re like, oh, what’s that from Stitch Fix? It’s so cute, right? Because I’m like a Stitch Fix junkie and I usually get a like compliment or two on something, and I didn’t. The day I walked in, I was like, this is probably not a good idea, but I’m going to do it anyway.

Janna 00:07:17  I’m glad you did. I think that’s.

Katy Ripp 00:07:18  Great.

Janna 00:07:19  Thank you. I’m here for it, dear Katy, here we go. All right. Got it.

Katy Ripp 00:07:23  I have not read this one yet. Right. No, you.

Janna 00:07:25  Have it going in blind here. I have always dreamed of opening a cozy bookstore. Cafe? A place where people can escape into books while enjoying a cup of coffee.

Janna 00:07:35  I have a vision for creating a community space, but I’m terrified of failing. What if no one comes? What if I can’t handle the business side? This fear keeps me stuck in my unfulfilling job. How can I overcome this fear and bring my dream to life? Warmly? Dreamer in doubt. Oh, I love it.

Katy Ripp 00:07:56  Dreamer and doubt. Oh you know this is my jam Yes.

Janna 00:08:02  This is you like. I mean, not you, but like. No, I didn’t write it. But I’m saying this is business c r and but.

Katy Ripp 00:08:10  It also is you because it’s stuck.

Janna 00:08:14  Yeah. You stay at the job. That sucks your soul. I know that life. Is there a way for our listener to do an and instead of an or so like, potentially stay at your unfulfilling job just until you feel confident enough to leave and find a space to open, you can like take steps. You don’t have to open the grandiose. Yeah, you don’t have to leave your.

Katy Ripp 00:08:44  Job in order to start.

Janna 00:08:46  Yeah, or grow it. So maybe somewhere smaller and then grow into something bigger. And is there I mean.

Katy Ripp 00:08:54  The fear of failure. Here is the question, right?

Janna 00:08:57  What if no one comes? Well, first of all, what if I can’t handle the business side? How can I overcome the fear? Yeah. From bringing my dream to life. And I think you’re good at talking about fear, right?

Katy Ripp 00:09:11  Because that is the thing that holds us all back. Period. So everything in life is on some kind of scale between fear and love. Period. Fear is the ultimate thing that holds us back. Love is the ultimate thing that keeps us going forward. And lots of people have fear of love, so that’s a real problem. But what is the fear of? Like you have to figure out what the fear is. So is the fear of failure. Okay, well what’s the worst thing that can happen? That’s what I always go when people say, I’m going to fail, right?

Janna 00:09:47  What’s what’s the going to debt? Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:09:49  Like what’s the fear. So I’ve done this a couple of times with like speaking engagements. One of the speaking engagements I had was like 75 women. It was amazing. And I said, what’s everybody’s biggest fear? And it was to a bunch of entrepreneurs or people that wanted to start something. And I said, well, what’s everybody like? Somebody yell out their biggest fear? She said, failure. And I said, okay, what are you scared of? Well, what if it doesn’t work? What if it doesn’t work? Like, what will happen if it doesn’t work? And what does that mean? What does it mean when it doesn’t work? So let’s say you put $50,000 into a new business. That sounds like a lot of money. And it is a lot of money to a lot of people. But in the business world, $50,000 isn’t that much money. But let’s say you put $50,000 of your own money and you start it and it fails. Well, first of all, usually it won’t fail in the first six months, right? Like you’re going to put all of your energy and time and money into it.

Katy Ripp 00:10:44  But let’s say it does fail and you lose all your money, and then you don’t go get a job. You just lay in bed because you’re so depressed from the failure that you just lay in bed. You don’t do anything else. And the bank comes and takes your house, and the bank takes your house, and now you’re homeless, right? Because you haven’t gone out and gotten another job, your husband or spouse or whoever you depend on for the other source of your income hasn’t done anything either. Like, you’re both just like laying around sad that you’ve failed at this job. The bank has taken your house and now you have nowhere to live. And let’s say you’ve got a couple of kids in tow. So now nobody’s working. And you’re like, sitting on the side of the road in a box and you are homeless. That’s the fear. Like that’s the fear. People think that they’re going to go straight from opening a business to living in a cardboard box.

Janna 00:11:41  I could yes, I see.

Katy Ripp 00:11:42  Is that fucking reality? No. Are your parents going to let you go into a cardboard box with their grandkids?

Janna 00:11:49  Yeah. No.

Katy Ripp 00:11:50  I wouldn’t let you do that. Do you have friends that would let you and your husband and your son and all your kids go, and your two dogs live on the side of the road, like be at a stoplight asking for money?

Janna 00:12:02  No.

Katy Ripp 00:12:03  Right. So, like, we have to remember that we’ve cultivated enough relationships over our lifetime. And if we’re good people, which most of us are, if we’re good people and we’ve cultivated relationships, they might say, I told you so, but they’re not going to let you die on the side of the road and let your kids starve to death. And what I said to this group of 75 women is look to your left and look to your right. Are you going to let that person in their family die on the side of the road? No. You’re going to figure out a way to take them in.

Katy Ripp 00:12:36  So what we do is we jump from the fear of failing to, I’m going to die because of this, or I’m going to be broke and homeless. That’s not the fear. The fear is likely the judgment that if you don’t make it, somebody’s going to say I told you so, somebody’s going to say I found you out, somebody’s going to say you tried and it did not work. You didn’t have it, you didn’t have the skills. You didn’t try hard enough you didn’t like. They’re gonna push all those buttons that you’re already pushing on yourself. And in reality, nobody’s actually going to say it to your face.

Janna 00:13:14  Right?

Katy Ripp 00:13:15  They might say it behind your back because they don’t have the balls to say it to your face, or they might go behind the keyboard and say it. But as long as you’re living in your truth and you’re doing the thing that you set yourself up to do and you are aligned with your values, there’s no failing and I have failed. I can’t even tell you how many things I’ve tried and failed at and everything I failed at.

Katy Ripp 00:13:37  I’ve learned something from every single time I tried to quit drinking, I learned something. Every single business I’ve tried to open and didn’t work. I learned something about myself, about that thing. So really like diving and pulling back the layers of what you actually scared of. Because the thing we’re actually scared of is not usually the thing that’s going to happen, right?

Janna 00:14:00  That’s a great point. I also think that More urgently, our dreamer in doubt could just start putting pen to paper. Yes. Get it out there. Yeah. How much would it cost to get the real numbers on there before you even doubt yourself? Yeah. Let’s, like, put some things down. How much is it for a coffee machine? How much do you need to live off? Like you’ve said that to me before, when I’ve been in misery at my job. What do you need to survive? Yeah, like start. Actually, start at the bottom and work your way up.

Katy Ripp 00:14:30  Do not. I need to make 100 grand a year.

Katy Ripp 00:14:33  How much do you actually need? Because I think we also have these numbers in our head that we don’t have the bills to back up. We think we owe this much. But then you’re like, oh, actually, I don’t owe that much or I don’t need that, or, you know, whatever it is. The other thing is we’re sitting in your let’s say it’s a corporate job, right? Like sitting in your soul sucking job and you want to leave it so bad you have to, like, look to see if you just want to leave your job or you really want to open the coffee shop. Like, is the coffee shop just an escape?

Janna 00:15:05  A cozy bookstore cafe?

Katy Ripp 00:15:07  Oh, sorry. A cozy bookstore.

Janna 00:15:09  Cafe. I mean, I love that idea. Could use of donuts because there’s just a lack of. There is a lack.

Katy Ripp 00:15:14  Of good donuts.

Janna 00:15:15  Around here, for.

Katy Ripp 00:15:16  Sure.

Janna 00:15:16  So that’s my one. There’s no.

Katy Ripp 00:15:18  Scots pastry.

Janna 00:15:19  Oh.

Katy Ripp 00:15:20  It’s God’s pastry.

Janna 00:15:22  You know, sometimes when you live with a good thing and it’s gone, you’re like, never again.

Janna 00:15:27  Scott’s pastry. My favorites.

Katy Ripp 00:15:29  I mean, I still have like I can still smell that place. Speaking of smell.

Janna 00:15:33  Got it. Sorry. Dreamer. In doubt. We’ve gone to the donut side of things, but I’ve.

Katy Ripp 00:15:38  Dealt with.

Janna 00:15:39  Donuts. But I do think writing things down and just seeing. What would your dream cost? First of all, you know, where would you have your dream? Is there a need for a bookstore or cafe as a view?

Katy Ripp 00:15:51  Yeah, I mean, also like the reality of opening a business is not all it’s cracked up to be. I own a coffee shop. Right? Like it’s not just like sitting around drinking coffee, reading books. Like there’s a whole side of business ownership that looks really romantic when you’re in a shitty job. That’s not super romantic when you get into it. It’s just not the same as what people think it is, right?

Janna 00:16:14  If you’re looking for a bookstore cafe for you to relax in, it’s not the one that’s you’re going to own 100,000%.

Janna 00:16:24  So if you are a lover of a bookstore cafe, maybe just find one.

Katy Ripp 00:16:28  Yeah. I mean, I understand the importance and the attraction of creating community spaces because that’s what I love to do. It’s like create the spaces. Creating the spaces is different than providing the space to a community, right? Like creating it is different than providing it, and I didn’t know that until I got into it. I still love to create them and I still love to have them, but they’re two very different parts of my brain that like light up when we do things around that. And I’m really good at one of them and not so great at the other one. And so I have staff to do that, right? Like, I don’t know, I could go really down a rabbit hole on this one.

Janna 00:17:12  So just a few other things. So I said maybe putting pen to paper. Do you have any other things this person could do to help them get started?

Katy Ripp 00:17:21  Oh yeah. I mean, I like step by step.

Katy Ripp 00:17:24  I hate, you know, like.

Janna 00:17:25  Do you think having a life coach would be a good idea? Yeah, I’d.

Katy Ripp 00:17:29  Be happy to help. Or maybe.

Janna 00:17:31  Start networking.

Katy Ripp 00:17:32  Yes. Like, also take a class. You can be in your soul sucking job and also take a night class.

Janna 00:17:41  Yeah, that’s a great idea.

Katy Ripp 00:17:43  You can do a lot of research on the internet. You can start an LLC, you can start a website, you can get a you can start designing your website. You can do all you can talk to the bank. You can get, you know, whatever it is. There are so many steps. The issue is that we stop ourselves from even trying. Yeah, because we’re so scared we’re going to fail. And there are so many steps from being at your soul sucking job to failing at a coffee shop.

Janna 00:18:15  Yeah, or being successful.

Katy Ripp 00:18:17  But in her, like the fear of that, there are a hundred steps. And to be honest, businesses sometimes fail because people don’t believe they can do it.

Katy Ripp 00:18:29  Like, yes, there are economy issues, there are lots of things around it. But sometimes, like people just don’t believe it. Like they don’t believe that they can do it. And so getting some coaching before then, like getting rid of that fear, figuring out what the fear is because that fear is going to, like, follow you along like a little shadow until you figure it out.

Janna 00:18:51  Yeah. And months ago you had an event here that was for business owners or people looking to start a business, and there was probably the same amount of people that were wanting to start something that were here and owned a business. Yeah. So for the listener, maybe, you know, find an outlet, go on meetup. I was just looking at my phone. I have this app called meetup. I don’t know if you’ve ever even heard this, and you can find groups of people in and around your area that are kind of have the same. It’s a networking app. I didn’t know.

Katy Ripp 00:19:25  That.

Janna 00:19:26  Yes. How do I.

Katy Ripp 00:19:27  Not know this?

Janna 00:19:28  I just learned about it.

Katy Ripp 00:19:29  What were you looking at?

Janna 00:19:30  My friend who is a LinkedIn coach. Oh yeah. Yeah, she was doing an event, so that’s why I initially uploaded it. Oh, cool. Yeah. Or downloaded it, I don’t know, I’m old. Whatever they say with your down or down with your up. I installed it on my phone.

Katy Ripp 00:19:52  But do you know what this is? So Jana and I were laughing.

Janna 00:19:55  This was a while.

Katy Ripp 00:19:55  Ago, actually. This was the first intro podcast that we had that I never recorded. I never well, I hit record, but we didn’t have the microphones plugged in correctly. So we did an entire episode and it didn’t work, but that’s who I am. And we were.

Janna 00:20:08  Talking about.

Katy Ripp 00:20:09  Creating an OnlyFans page.

Janna 00:20:12  Right?

Katy Ripp 00:20:12  Like I don’t know anything about OnlyFans. Like I only hear it in jokes, right? And like memes and stuff. But then we were talking because we have alpacas, right? And I was talking because somebody asked me like, what are you going to do with the wool? Because they’re getting shorn tomorrow, sheared, shorn, whatever.

Katy Ripp 00:20:28  And they’re like, what do you do with the wool? And I said, well, I’m not really sure. Like we still have the garbage bags from last year when we got them done. Of course, they’re just sitting there. We don’t really know what we’re going to do with them, but you can, like, ship them off and they clean them and send you the yarn back and whatever. And I said, wouldn’t it be funny if we just had like an OnlyFans page of Dale in his underwear and a cowboy hat spinning wool? Like I would totally pay to watch.

Janna 00:20:52  Oh my gosh, it’s amazing.

Katy Ripp 00:20:54  Somebody else out there would pay to watch that.

Janna 00:20:56  Yeah, I mean, they might even pay to watch him shear the narcos.

Katy Ripp 00:21:03  And like, assless chaps.

Janna 00:21:05  Yes, please. With country music playing.

Katy Ripp 00:21:08  See, people I know would watch it.

Janna 00:21:10  They would pay for it. Yeah, so it’s fine. That’s amazing.

Katy Ripp 00:21:15  Okay, well, dreamer and doubt you can certainly reach out to me.

Janna 00:21:18  But also maybe, you know, connect with some other people that are looking to start a business.

Katy Ripp 00:21:24  Yeah, right. Wherever you are in the world, there are people out there also thinking about opening coffee shops and other businesses, brick and mortar places. And there’s lots of like female entrepreneur groups.

Janna 00:21:38  And,

Katy Ripp 00:21:40  This sounds like a little bit more like we gotta take a first step.

Janna 00:21:44  Yeah. Overcome the fear. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:21:46  Just like take a step. Action is the best way to get out of fear. Take some action.

Janna 00:21:52  Oh that’s good. That was a good one. Thank you.

Katy Ripp 00:21:57  And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at Katy Ripp dot com.

Katy Ripp 00:22:21  There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember #ActuallyICan.

Angie Reens 00:00:00  It’s just like this “not enoughness”. I’m not adequate. I’m not smart enough. I’m not good enough. I’m not pretty enough. I’m always trying to fix, always trying to change, always trying to look for like the new bright, shiny object. I’ve always looked for everybody else to kind of tell me what to do. So it’s like laying this groundwork to be like, I’m going to make a change, and this is how I’m going to do it, and I’m going to trust myself and my own wisdom that I know the way.

Katy Ripp 00:00:28  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defying what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship. Unapologetic self-care and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way.

Katy Ripp 00:00:59  Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie, you’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life, So buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go. Hi, Angie.

Angie Reens 00:01:29  Hi, Katy.

Katy Ripp 00:01:30  I’m so happy to have you on the podcast.

Angie Reens 00:01:33  I am so grateful to be here.

Katy Ripp 00:01:36  thank you for doing this for me. Angie and I met in the Mind Rebel Academy. We have just finished, as of Friday, our International Coaching Federation certification. We have literally been together for 14 months. Yeah, every Wednesday or every Wednesday except the one Wednesday a month. For the last 14 months, I just I feel like we’ve totally connected. We were able to work together in a couple of pods, which I loved, and part of the coaching certification was basically to peer coach each other.

Katy Ripp 00:02:15  So I got to learn a little bit about Angie, and she got to learn a little bit about me, which I thought was just one of the most amazing things of that certification of that academy. But it allows me also to like, continue to talk to people that I connected with. So Angie was gracious enough to allow me to invite her on the podcast. We have a very similar story and she is an entrepreneur. I’m gonna let her talk all about that, but I’m going to let her take it away with her story just where you were and where you are and how different it is. Any perspectives that have changed in your life because of one thing or another. This podcast is definitely about people that have decided to do it on their own terms. Welcome.

Angie Reens 00:03:00  Thank you. As you said that, and I was reminded of the name of your podcast hashtag, actually I can. It brought me back to like several times throughout my life where I felt like there was like something in the way that almost made me feel like I couldn’t move forward.

Angie Reens 00:03:22  However, I’ve always had a sense of hope in my heart. I guess I would say. And I believe that was not only like a reflection of kind of my upbringing, but I think I was just naturally born into this world with this sense of hope. And I don’t know that hope necessarily, like, occurred to me until probably, I don’t know, maybe like four years ago, like I always like knew it, but there wasn’t a moment where I stopped and like, was completely just like, struck by this feeling like I have hope that I can, like, move forward. And that really changed everything for me in terms of like building this like little baby confidence, like this quiet confidence that I just started to, like, slowly chip away at. And there’s been a handful of moments in my life that I can pinpoint like, yes, that was it. That was like my hope right there that I can just totally grasp onto. And I’d probably start with, like when I was in sixth grade and when I fell in love with horses.

Angie Reens 00:04:42  And that was like my first little, like inkling that there was more out there that was like in my radar. There was more like exposed to. Yes, exposed to. Absolutely. Like it was almost like I had to take that step to be like, what do I love? What am I maybe, like, good at? And where do I feel this like draw? And it was forces. And thankfully enough, I had parents who were very supportive of anything that I decided I wanted to do, felt a calling to do. And, you know, it started out really small, just going to camp, riding horses, and then it was like taking lessons, and then it was leasing a horse, and then it was buying a horse. And that was like really where I feel like I started to kind of bloom and then, you know, things again start kind of just started to unravel after that because I rode for years, but I also was dabbling in hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Angie Reens 00:05:44  I mean, binge drinking, all that sort of stuff was. So it was like there was like these two parts of me that it was like, there’s this really good, sweet, innocent girl who likes to ride horses, but then there’s this other side that can be very, like, manipulative. You know, I had a tendency to be very dishonest and wanted to, like, pull away even more so, which got me into a lot of trouble. But again, going into this idea that I knew that I was different from everybody else, I had this hope in my heart. But then there was also this, like, what is wrong with me? Why I have this wonderful family? Why am I so like evil on one side? But then my other side of me is just like this sweet girl who’s happy and bubbly. And I had a really hard time trying to, like, figure that out for a majority of my life until probably. Well, I mean, I stopped drinking in 2018, and that was when everything, like, really shifted.

Angie Reens 00:06:51  And that’s when I was able to, like, access emotions that I was like numbing that I, you know, didn’t even know that I had, that I was trying to kind of be somebody I wasn’t. And that is really a big part of my story is like these years that I struggled with who I am at my core, because it was like I was fighting, actually, who I authentically show up now each and every day as and like. I don’t know, I don’t want to say like, I’m a square, but I’m kind of like a rule follower now. I like.

Katy Ripp 00:07:26  Seem like a.

Angie Reens 00:07:26  Square.

Katy Ripp 00:07:27  But yeah, not.

Angie Reens 00:07:28  A square, but like, I, I don’t really like to like, I don’t know, like I’m very much so like to like follow the rules. I like to have structure. However, I still am very can be very rebellious. But my life is just completely different now that I have one that I don’t drink, and two, that I’ve pursued coaching as like my career.

Angie Reens 00:07:51  It was like when I turned 40, it was like, what the fuck do I have to show other than like my beautiful marriage with my husband being sober from alcohol, you know, living in a beautiful beach town. But I’m like, I don’t have children. We’re not going to have kids. My career had been so like up and down and it was like 40 hit me and I was like, what is going on? And it was really it was difficult for me. However, there was that hope. Like, there’s something in you that wants to like help, wants to serve, wants to connect with people on a deeper level. And that’s really like kind of what led me to being a coach outside of I taught, you know, Pilates for years, different modalities in terms of movement. But there was always this piece lacking, and that was like this soul connection that I believe now I have with clients when I work with them, even if it is like in a movement setting, it’s so different compared to what it used to be.

Angie Reens 00:08:53  But now it’s like I take my coaching hat and I’m able to like marry that with movement. So that’s evolved as well. And I know I’m kind of like rambling, but I just go back to that, like hope and that faith and that trust, which is taken years and years to build tear back down, build it back up again. But today, as I sit here chatting with you, I’ve never felt so confident in who I am as well as trusting myself, because I think that’s the other big thing is I could never trust myself. I couldn’t trust myself because when I drank, I was a completely different person. I was angry, I was erratic, I was out of control. And it’s like, that’s what drew me to drinking was this way to like, escape. And I feel like it was like this escape from me, but also an escape from, like, my family because I was an only child. I am an only child, and I was with my mom all the time.

Angie Reens 00:09:55  And you know, I love her to death, but she can be a lot. And I just wanted to, like, get away. And that to me was drinking and being wild and crazy. And I couldn’t trust myself at all. And so it just build up this, these years and years of not being able to trust myself with that. I couldn’t trust my body. I couldn’t trust people around me because I felt like they were always looking for or seeking out something else. Like it was just this, like lack of trust. And within the last year, that trust is really changed as well.

Katy Ripp 00:10:32  There are so many things in that that I would love to touch on. One of them said quiet confidence. Like what a gorgeous term, right? Like to build that quiet confidence is just there’s something about confidence in general, right? And nobody I think nobody. Well, this is my podcast. So I’m allowed to have any opinion I want. I think that confidence doesn’t just come to people.

Katy Ripp 00:10:59  You got to earn that shit, right? And the other thing you said was like, and I call it flipping my magnet, which was like when I was drinking, I was constantly pushing, you know, it’s like two magnets when they, like, repel each other, like you’re constantly pushing one magnet away from the other one. And the day I quit drinking, I flipped my magnet. That’s what happened to me, right? Like it took me years and years of I mean, I’m medicated, right? Like that’s what drinking was for me. It was an escape. It was a medication. And then I could never trust myself. And now I’ve gotten to the point where I trust myself so much that, like, there’s really nothing I don’t think I can do anymore. Yeah, because I went from, like, not trusting myself to do anything at all, even though I was very capable to trusting myself so much that I’m like, okay, we’ll try this. And if it doesn’t work, whatever, we’ll try something different.

Katy Ripp 00:11:57  There’s just like nothing that I’m like that scared of anymore. The trust part was huge for me to hear from you. I just, I think that’s such an unspoken. I don’t even know what the word like the term is like. We just don’t talk about how much we don’t trust ourselves 100%. And I think it’s because we don’t know who we are. Right? And so, like, what the fuck do we trust? Like, where do we go? I don’t know what values to trust. I don’t know what to do because I get a different reaction from externally all the time. Like what do you trust when you’re looking for validation outside of yourself all the time? You can’t trust anything. And now that I don’t really look for it, except for myself, and I know my body so well now that if my body don’t like it, it’s not right. Right? Like I’m so misaligned. If my body reacts in a certain way that, you know it’s one of those wee-wooo or like it’s a huge alarm for me.

Katy Ripp 00:12:57  So I’m curious if you feel like that at all.

Angie Reens 00:12:59  Absolutely. I think that’s such a great point. For years, you know, I it was always like I had I and I still deal with like GI issues with stomach stuff constantly. But it started when I was five, and I remember being at the pediatrician and him saying to my mom, well, some kids have headaches, some kids have stomach aches, and that’s just how they deal with stress. And it was just like, that’s how we were supposed to move forward. And this is what you have to deal with. And it was like that’s where everything would like erupt. And of course it would because I’m not regulated. You know, my nervous system is dysregulated. And that should have been the first thing that was like, actually discussed, like what’s going on with this child that she’s, you know, not regulated and.

Katy Ripp 00:13:44  Also what’s causing a five year old’s stress. Right.

Angie Reens 00:13:47  Exactly.

Katy Ripp 00:13:47  And how are we dealing with the stress rather than.

Katy Ripp 00:13:50  Oh, it’s just stress. Don’t worry about your stomach. Right. Oh like yeah.

Angie Reens 00:13:56  So it was just like mind blowing that I was supposed to now deal with this all the time. And that was maybe even the first place that I could not trust. Like my body. It would be like I would constantly be fighting it. And I think that is absolutely like kind of the first thing that showed up. I don’t think that I was ever taught how to identify emotions. I think my emotions were all suppressed and they probably all ended up in my gut. I don’t know that I was ever taught how to self-regulate and then be able to like, co regulate, you know, because I was like attached to my mom like I was supposed to be with her constantly. I feel like I was supposed to be not only her daughter, but her best friend, her partner, her because my my dad was there, but he had his own set of issues and was, if not already an alcoholic, was becoming an alcoholic probably at that time.

Angie Reens 00:14:55  And so it it just started to like unravel there and then trying to navigate, like being an adolescent, a teenager. I was, you know, I went through that phase, like we all do, of being just very awkward. And I was a chubbier kid, and I dealt with a lot of issues in terms of like bullying, because I didn’t look like my friends who were like stereotypical little like peanuts that were tiny. And, you know, down the road they were all cheerleaders, which is fine. But I grew up in a very small town, and when you look different, you act different. You don’t really fit in. It’s like, where am I supposed to go with this? And so again, that kind of creates more like trust issues. I don’t trust the people I’m around. I don’t trust myself. I don’t really trust my home situation because I feel like there’s something going on there, even though from the outside it looked like picture perfect and it just begins to build and build.

Angie Reens 00:15:55  And then it’s like when one thing starts to present itself that could be an outlet for escaping all of this. It’s like, give it to me. And my mom is such like and again, I just, I adore her, but she was a very sheltered child, you know, went to like parochial school, did everything her parents told her to do and didn’t do any, you know, was just a very good kid. And I was like, I don’t want to be anything like that. So I went as far away from that as I can. And my dad was like stereotypical, like love muscle cars, you know, was partying and drinking and he was as opposite of her as you could find. And I was like, okay, that looks better to me. I think I want to go that direction. Plus I thought, well, maybe this will be a way that and not really like I knew this, but I think internally it was like, well, maybe this is a way I could connect with my dad.

Angie Reens 00:16:46  Really cool. And my mom is not so cool. Which then that did not work out at all. But, you know, again, it’s just like trying to find anything that can be like almost like mine and can move me farther away from where I want to be. And that is, I don’t want to be in this house. I don’t want to be anywhere near these people. You know? I can’t trust them to figure things out. I could they were, you know, but that’s how I.

Katy Ripp 00:17:11  Understand what you’re.

Angie Reens 00:17:11  Saying. Who’s running the show here? Because it feels like I’m the one that should be in charge. And even now, to this day, I’m like, feel like I’m like parenting them sometimes. And I’m like, what is this about? So yeah, kind of long story short, but it was just once I started to dabble in all of that. It was my way out. It was a way to just completely numb. And I’ll even, I mean, probably the first time I ever got drunk, I think I was like in eighth grade and it was like a blackout sort of situation.

Angie Reens 00:17:43  Then that became my way of being like, there was no it was just like as soon as I knew I was going to be drinking. It’s like extreme bull on, I don’t know how I’m going to, you know, get to my bed that night. I don’t know where, you know, it was just like, that’s how my body reacted was just like blackout drunk. I could have three drinks, or I could have 20 drinks, and it would all amount to the same sort of thing. And then the waking up after, you know, the next day, it’s just like, what did I do? What did I say? Where was I at? And just this enormous amount of shame and guilt that just then continued to, like, steamroll over and over with. And it was just like this roller coaster. But all I would look forward to was the moment where I knew, okay, my day is ended and I can go out for a drink, or I can go out and have a cocktail.

Angie Reens 00:18:32  Oh, we’re going to dinner tonight. I can’t wait because I get to have a cocktail and that’s all that I like, thought about. And then I would use exercise to, you know, burn the calories to burn off the booze to whatever. And so it was just, again, this constant like fight of trying to almost sober up, try to get my body to where I thought or wanted it to be because I was dealing with so many body issues at the same time, and it was so just draining my life for so many years, from the time I was probably 13 until I was whatever, like 38, I don’t know. Yeah, I guess 38. Honestly, it was like a switch finally flipped and it was like God gave me a gift. He’s like, here, I’m going to make this really easy on you. You’re not an alcoholic yet, but you’re on your way there and you can see what’s happened to your dad over the last ten years. You know, stroke almost lost his marriage.

Angie Reens 00:19:29  I mean, who knows what else he would have lost. But I’m going to give you this, and I’m going to make it really easy on you. Because I never craved booze. I craved the social. I craved the experience of it. I craved that I never, like, woke up and was like, I need a drink. If anything, I’m like waking up. Like, how do I get to work today? I’m going to be stunk. I mean, with the smell of booze and cigarettes. So yeah, it was just like it was, honestly. And I thank God every day. It was like one of the easiest things I’ve ever done. It was just like once I said no, and I really meant it. It was like, here we go, this is your new life, and it’s going to be really good and there’s going to be really hard moments where you’re going to have to be in settings where you’re around people who are highly intoxicated, and you’re going to have to make a decision, what are you going to do? And now I see it and I’m so fucking disgusted, like I don’t really socialize much at all anymore.

Angie Reens 00:20:28  I have my like boundaries. I know where and I can go out, I know when I can’t, and most of the time I’m just like, I don’t, I don’t, I just don’t want to be around people who were drinking or who are drunk. It just makes me so disgusted.

Katy Ripp 00:20:41  Yeah, I mean, I’m also an ex smoker and I’m like the worst ex smoker because I smell smoke and I’m like, oh yes, yes.

Angie Reens 00:20:49  Like a yeah, 100% like, oh, I just can’t even be anywhere where there’s cigarette smoke because I was yeah, a smoker.

Katy Ripp 00:20:56  Not because I want it. It’s because I like it’s disgusting to me. Again, so much of what you said totally resonates with me. I’m curious. Was this a lifestyle decision for you?

Angie Reens 00:21:06  Well, yes. I think that it was like I knew that I would be on the same path as my dad. I also knew that my marriage probably would not survive if I still continued to drink. And it was just like, what are you doing? There’s no other way but for you to stop drinking.

Katy Ripp 00:21:26  Yeah, and you said you you started really young. I did too, I think the first time I got drunk, I was in eighth grade too, and I also mine was an escape, right? Like an escape from my life. But I always felt bad about it. Always. Since the first time I ever had a drink, I always felt like I shouldn’t be doing it. Not like in a really cute, rebellious way. Like this is going to fuck up my life somehow. And I should not be doing this in my 20s. In my 30s, even when it was fine, it wasn’t fine for me. I would wake up every single day with my head in my hands on the toilet with horrible shame over of I shouldn’t be doing that, why couldn’t I just have one? Why can’t I be like everybody else? Why am I doing right? Like all of the questions. And then I would also go and work out to work it off. And then by two, you know, 2 or 3:00 in the afternoon, I’d be like, well, it wasn’t that bad, right? And then it would start over.

Katy Ripp 00:22:22  It was a vicious, vicious cycle for decades. For me, it was just over and over again. And I tried to quit. Right. Like every Monday I would try to quit, right? Like every, you know, clean slate. I’m quitting Monday. You know, we’d have the last Sunday fun day, right? Like. And I tried a number of times. I never talked to anybody about it. I just like if I was going to do it, I was going to hunker down and I wasn’t going to drink, and I would take off, you know, ten days. And then it was, you know, dry January and sober October and, you know, all of these things. And then for a while I would make it, you know, 2.5 hours or two days or something. It got to a point where I couldn’t do it for very long. And then it was never rock bottom for me. I never hit anywhere. I never killed anybody. I never got a DUI like I always went to work.

Katy Ripp 00:23:13  I might have smelled like wine, but like I always went to work. I never, like, didn’t fulfill an obligation, never really missed anything. I would power through a whole lot of things. And then on my husband’s 40th birthday, I left the party early because I, like, had just had enough. And the next day I woke up and I was like, I’m not drinking anymore, period. Like, full stop. This is going to ruin my life if I continue to do this. And I had decades of that same conversation. But for some reason that day I just decided, and I like the Latin and I say this in a couple of other episodes, so sorry if I’m repeating myself, but like the Latin meaning of decide is to cut off like d side is cut off. And that’s how I run my whole life. When I decide something, when it’s actually a decision, when I actually decide it, I never look back. I just like it’s become really easy for me.

Katy Ripp 00:24:17  I mean, you give me like moderation or a maybe no, but you give me yes or no and it’s yes or no for me, it’s just not how I was built. But when I have decided something, it’s full stop. I just. There’s no going back. Like many people have asked me though, like, do you think you’ll ever drink again? I’m like, fuck no. Like, no. I’m never tempted. I can be around people. I don’t love it, to be honest. Like to be around drunk people. And I’ve also like my sobriety to me, is the most important thing in my life because it’s given me everything. Yes. So I protected at all costs. So if there’s anything that threatens it in any way, I remove myself from a situation. And again, I don’t feel tempted, but I just don’t like to be in environments necessarily. It’s just not like part of my lifestyle anymore. I mean, I like a good non-alcoholic everything. Yeah, but it’s just not like my lifestyle anymore.

Katy Ripp 00:25:18  And it’s been three years for me. You said six years for you. So you’ve got double the time. Yeah. I’m curious. Like, what did your day one look like?

Angie Reens 00:25:26  My husband and I went to his cousin’s wedding in Georgia, I think, and I don’t even really remember what finally, really did it. But I remember being like, all right, this is going to be the last time I drink. And it was we came back from the wedding like January 7th. I remember sitting at a bar getting takeout, having like my last drink. And then it was Monday. I want to say that started it. And day one, I was walking dogs at that time because I was taking a break from teaching. I just I needed to get away from like teaching movement classes. I was managing a bar studio and it was just like, so I was just walking dogs. So I had a ton of time on my hands to really start to, like, dig into me, start to reflect, start to like notice things, patterns, peel back the layers, all that sort of stuff.

Angie Reens 00:26:22  And I just remember it just being like so easy. But at the same time, I had done it so many and I don’t want to say done it so many times. There was probably a handful of times where I took a month off, maybe three months. I think one time I took six months off, so I kind of knew what to expect. I knew I had to have a plan. That was the one thing going into it was like, I have to have a plan of like, when we are out in a social setting when we are going to dinner. But it was like as soon as I knew, okay, usually it would be like a coffee would be my drink in my hand because it was always like I needed to have something in my hand, a coffee or a tea at dinner. Maybe if we’re out, I’ll have just like a soda water or like a Red bull or something like that. But it was like knowing that I had to have something, and it was as soon as I started to have that morning wake up where I was so freaking happy.

Angie Reens 00:27:18  It was like a weekend. You’d wake up on Saturday morning or Sunday morning and it’s just like, oh my gosh, I didn’t do anything that I’m like, ashamed of. Last night that feeling started to be like my driving force, like it started to fuel something inside of me that was just like, you’re doing it, you’re doing it, and there is no going back. And it’s so hard to really even kind of like pinpoint. It was just like I said, it was like, seriously, like this gift that was like, I’m going to give this to you. Let’s see what happens with it. And at the same time, I started listening to the headspace app for meditation, and I started with like really small, like three minute meditations, five minute, ten minute, maybe two, ten minutes in a day. But that was just like my security blanket, in a way. I started to notice so many things about just being able to sit for a short amount of time and notice thoughts that were coming in, but also be able to like, start to regulate myself and start to see like things starting to almost melt away.

Angie Reens 00:28:26  Different body sensations, different stories that I created in my head. And it was just like each day is a new day. Okay, we’re going to do this again today. We’re going to do this again today, and you’re going to feel really freaking good. You’re going to keep feeling good. And it just became this new way of being. And I think the other thing too, is I started to feel so proud of myself because I’ll tell you this is this just came to me. I remember the Jersey shore and Mike Sorrentino The situation, and I remember when he got sober and I’m like, what the fuck? If Mike Sorrentino can do this, I can do this. Like, there was like, different celebrities before sober. Yeah, like celebrities now or like I’m sober. And it was like kind of a cool thing to do a while ago. Some people, when.

Katy Ripp 00:29:14  It was Robert Downey Jr and nobody thought it was cool. Yeah.

Angie Reens 00:29:17  And then it’s just like, oh my gosh, they can do it.

Angie Reens 00:29:20  I think that I can do this too. And I remember thinking, if I ever got to five years, oh my gosh, that is just like, wow, that blows my mind. And then it happened. And and then it’s just like being so proud of it and being in situations where I’m with old groups of friends too, and I’m just like, I don’t do this anymore. Like, this just isn’t how I want to live my life. And even new groups of friends when we moved here like five years ago, it was like, nobody knows that side of me, nobody knows that version of me. And now I can be like, really? Who I am here? They have no idea. And that felt really good to to step into, like a new, like I’m living in a new place. It’s a beach town. People love to freaking party and drink here. I would not have been able to live here if it was five six years ago at all, because I would be at the bar down the street every day.

Angie Reens 00:30:18  And. And the other thing too is like, my husband doesn’t drink very much anymore either, because his lifestyle has changed so much and he’s seen like the good stuff that comes out of not, you know, belly up at the bar every night or, you know, so it has filtered into so many different areas of my life. I’ll like kind of go back in time to there was a time. So my first day was like January 8th. My dad was still going through all of his stuff, and he hit rock bottom many times, but he hit rock bottom two weeks after I decided, you know, that I’m done. And then he started his true sobriety journey, and he has now been sober the same amount of time as I have a Two weeks less so. He was a functioning alcoholic. We didn’t know. I mean, he would put it in his coffee mug. I mean, there was no now like we know we knew the signs. We could see the signs. Then as soon as you know, he would tell us, no, I’m not drinking.

Angie Reens 00:31:19  Yes, he has been drinking because you could just. You can tell. I mean, you can. It’s so easy to tell now. Like when somebody is drunk. I’m just like, even you’re watching TV and it’s like that or some reality show and it’s just like, look, they’re wasted. Like, what’s this? Here we go.

Katy Ripp 00:31:33  I can tell by my mom’s, like the way her mascara starts to, like, fade in, like the smallest, tiniest like. Or like the way she moves her eyes in one way. Right? Like it’s just a now I can see now I can see it everywhere, right? I also have like probably some muscle memory around that. But yeah, my, my husband also like we were drinking buddies. That’s how we met. That’s what I was doing. Right? Like it was our entire social life. It was like that. That’s what we did. We drank and then. But he can pick it up or put it down, I never could.

Katy Ripp 00:32:06  Yeah. And so now that I haven’t drank for a really long time, and he’s seen a lot of like obviously some great progression out of me. He’s just never drink. I mean, we always like binge drink as a couple. That’s what we did. But I didn’t realize how much I was the instigator. Yes, until I quit. And I was like, Holy shit. Like our entire like he’s completely content being in the shed and working, you know, 20 hours a day. Like, that’s what his he always wanted, that I just like we went out to dinner because I could drink there. I would drink at home or, you know, whatever it was. So it’s fascinating to see. And I have talked to a couple of other people about like that, just like the osmosis. Right. Like being around somebody that I mean, what did they say? Like, you are the five people you surround yourself with or, you know, whatever that is. And it’s fascinating to see the difference that people have just by being around somebody else.

Katy Ripp 00:33:04  The same is true the other way, right? Like the same is when I was drinking. It was the same. Right? Like it’s a fascinating time. I’m curious, when you decided to quit drinking, what fears you had around it, right. Because, like, I’m guessing if you felt bad about it, you thought about quitting for a long time, what fears you had and how much of that has actually come true or fears around it?

Angie Reens 00:33:30  Fears around stopping?

Katy Ripp 00:33:32  Yeah. Like what would happen if you stopped kind of thing.

Angie Reens 00:33:35  I don’t know that I necessarily had any right away. It was more so later on in my life when I started to feel like I didn’t fit in again, it came up again, and it was almost like I started to notice that when I would drink, it unlocked something. So I was more like extroverted. And I like kind of tussle between being introverted and extroverted. But when I’m in certain settings, I find it very difficult to just like, talk to people.

Angie Reens 00:34:13  Like it takes me a while to trust and to open up and not be surfaced because I hate, like just surface level conversations. It just doesn’t do anything for me. But I started to feel like I don’t have anything to offer these people anymore because I feel kind of awkward. Everyone’s drinking. I don’t feel like I can have a true conversation with them because they’re whether they’re drunk or not. It’s not really who they are. So it’s like I would kind of clam up and be like, what do I have to offer? I don’t have anything to talk about. And then I would get in my head and just get super self-conscious and just be like, I need to get out of here. And that has changed a lot. I believe with starting the MRA, like my communication has opened up a lot. I’m like, yeah, actually I have a hell of a lot to offer. And if I don’t want to talk to somebody because they’re drunk, I don’t give a shit and I’m just going to like walk away from it.

Angie Reens 00:35:03  It’s not a big deal. But the other thing too, is I started to see people for who they really were to. It’s like this veil is lifted and you have this new lens. It’s like I’m a baby in a new world. And it’s like, whoa, I didn’t see these people this way before, particularly my mom and I kind of knew her. But once I stopped drinking, it was probably the first 2 or 3 years. Everything she did pissed me off, and it was like I had all this, like, rage, anger. I don’t know what it was. It was just like her controlling nature, always, like kind of hovering and trying to do things the way she wanted them done. And I was like, no more. I am like my own person now. I’m a freaking adult and I don’t need you, like trying to like, run the show anymore. And so I didn’t know that was going to be a fear, but that was a lot of stuff that I had to deal with was like new relationships, leading people out that I would almost then feel guilty, like, I can’t really give you a reason as to why I don’t want to be around you anymore, except for like maybe drinking.

Angie Reens 00:36:14  But there’s something else there that bothers me about you. And I’m just listening to my intuition. And I started to kind of really, like, close in on my circle, almost feel antisocial at times. But now it’s just like, I’m just honoring what works for me, what feels true to me and what doesn’t. And I’ve always been kind of like an observer of people. I mean, I remember being in like seventh grade and the first time I went to Chicago, like sitting in the hotel room and staying up all night just watching people go up and down like State Street and go into like the McDonald’s that was across from our hotel and making up all these, like, stories in my head, oh, that person’s like doing this and that. And like, I was just such like, I loved watching people and watching what they did, their actions, their behaviors. So now as like, you know, this veil, it’s like it’s clear. And I’m seeing people differently now. It’s just like, whoa, this was a lot coming at me.

Angie Reens 00:37:12  But I’ll do with it when I want. And I think that’s why I love coaching so much. Yeah, I can just sit there and like, listen and observe and without like, judging or trying to, like, you know, whatever, predict, fix all that sort of stuff. It’s just like people are so interesting. And I also feel like because it’s like the society of like go, yeah, more urgency, pressure, you know, keeping up with the Joneses. Nobody gives themself or even knows how to pause and reflect and be like, does this work for me or doesn’t it? And if it doesn’t work for me, that’s okay. I don’t need to fall in line with everybody else just because they’re doing it, or I feel like I should do it. It’s just like it’s such a beautiful thing to be able to gift yourself space, to be like, what feels good to me, what feels true to me, I really like that’s the other thing is.

Katy Ripp 00:38:08  I like, do I really want.

Angie Reens 00:38:10  Yes. What do I really want in this life? And it’s not like we have to know right away at all. Like that’s the beauty of it is having the space to let it just evolve over time. And then one day you’re like, whoa, when did I get here? This is really cool.

Katy Ripp 00:38:26  I like this.

Angie Reens 00:38:27  New life that I’ve built for myself. Yeah, it took a lot of freaking hard work, but I do it over and over again because I know that I would not be sitting here today if I did not stop drinking like that is the one thing in my life that, like I said, like you said, you protect your sobriety at all costs. Same with me. Like it is. Just like it is what has gotten me to where I am today.

Katy Ripp 00:38:51  For me, it’s the one. First of all, I always knew it was the one thing I always knew. It was the one thing that if I could just get this one thing licked, yep, the rest of it would fall into place.

Katy Ripp 00:39:04  And that’s exactly what happened. Which is why I protect it, which is why I do whatever the fuck I want to do as long as it protects my sobriety. And that’s kind of a loaded phrase, because if you put a bottle of Chardonnay in front of me right now, there’s no way I would drink it. So, like, I’m not protecting it like that, right? I’m protecting it like I don’t put anything in my life anymore that I need to escape from. Right? In a bottle of Chardonnay. Yes, yes. And so I figured out what I wanted to like, you know. Of course. Do I want more money? Sure. You know. Do I want some of that stuff? Yeah, I want peace. Yes, I want contentment. I want to be able to deal with anxiety instead of push it down. It took me a long time to figure out what I really wanted, and what I want is to live my life however I want to live it.

Katy Ripp 00:39:59  Like I don’t care what people think about it. I mean, I guess I also still sort of live in the norms. And when I say people that are living outside the societal norms or people that are like, actually I can do whatever I want to do. I’m not talking about people fucking blowing up their lives and, you know, leaving their four kids and going to live in Thailand. I mean, if that’s what you really want to do, by all means, I’m on board. You go do that. However, it could just be something as easy as, I don’t want to go out on a Friday night, right? It does not have to be these, like, fucking crazy things. It doesn’t have to be. I’m selling my house and living in a bus. That’s not what I’m talking about. What I’m talking about is figuring out what you really want out of this one life, and figuring out how to get it. And I’ve said this before. For me, it was alcohol.

Katy Ripp 00:40:51  That’s what I masked my emotions with. Like, that’s how I escaped. That’s how I medicated. That’s how I got through my life. That’s how I coped. It was not a great coping mechanism, but it sure did the job at the time. But for other people it could be something else. Could be smoking weed, could be shopping, could be, you know, scrolling on Instagram for six hours a day and not knowing where it goes, checking out in front of Netflix. Now, a lot of these things I’ve also done, like I also like veg out in front of Netflix. But I also recognize now that now I’m escaping and like, what am I escaping from? I think that’s what the MRA really gave me, is a way to, like, coach myself out of the deeper layers, or like the thing that’s under the layers and also the skills to help other people do it themselves. And I love it. Like I love that part of it. But to your point, I point everything back to my sobriety.

Katy Ripp 00:41:50  My life would be nowhere where it is right now if I didn’t quit drinking, if I didn’t decide that one day and it didn’t just click. And I hear a lot of people like what made it click, I don’t know. Yeah, I know, I don’t know. I don’t know why I woke up that day, and that was the day that I didn’t put a 90 days on it or a break or a I was just really honest with people. I made some guidelines for myself which were outside of, well, I’m only going to drink on Tuesday. I’m not going to drink over the weekend. I’m only going to drink beer. I’m only going to drink, you know, whatever. Like those rules are. That’s a different story. But I made myself, no matter what, stretch before I went to bed every night, like I made myself a stretching routine. Did that have anything to do with sobriety? I don’t know, right? Like it did for me for 60 days straight.

Katy Ripp 00:42:44  That’s what I did before I went to bed. And there were other things, right? Like if I went to the refrigerator, I counted to ten, or if I went to the grocery store and I walked like, you know, because there’s lots of muscle memory and habit here that you have to break. And so I would walk to the grocery store and like, walk straight to the boxes of wine. And I would have to physically tell myself to move. Yeah, and those are really hard things in the beginning, but these things never cross my mind. Now I know. Yeah. And it’s so hard to think that it would never cross my mind. Right when I was in the thick of it, I was like, there is no way I can do this and never wanted again. Like, I thought I would have to fight it and want it forever. And I just like, almost kind of from day one, I just didn’t. Yeah, I knew it was never going to get any better.

Katy Ripp 00:43:36  That was the other thing I had tried so many times. Every time I had stopped drinking and started again, it only got worse, right?

Angie Reens 00:43:44  Yep.

Katy Ripp 00:43:44  It never got any better. No. Even if I told myself it was going to get better, it never got any better. It only got worse. I would drink more wine. I would drink more frequently. I would remove myself from situation so I didn’t have to worry. Like I would started drinking at home alone, you know, like it would. It never got any better. I just knew it would never get any better. Like I had proven to myself over and over that this was not going to get any better. I was not there was no way out except for me to be done. Totally.

Angie Reens 00:44:11  Yeah. Best decision ever, for sure. Going back to.

Angie Reens 00:44:14  Your point about like the rock bottom, there was never really a rock bottom for me either. I think there was so many signs. I mean, I go back to this one because I don’t know how I got through this, but I mean, I was in college and I was a junior in college, and I went to a bachelorette party and I was on my way home.

Angie Reens 00:44:32  I decided to take the drink with me, because that’s the great idea, is to take the gin and tonic with you from the bar. And obviously you were, you know, cup holder. I think I had a pipe to smoke pot too in the car because I remember it like it was on the floor when I got home. But I was probably a mile from my parents house, and I missed the curve. And I went through like five pine trees, and my car just went like between them and didn’t hit head on, and I backed myself out. I don’t really remember any of this back myself out. Went home, went into the house and told my mom, I don’t know what happened. Somebody hit me in the bar parking lot and she’s like, well, let’s go out and let’s go out and look at your car. And I was like, okay, we go out, there’s like pinecone beetles, you know, limbs like coming out from the side of the car, you know, and she’s like, no one hit you in the parking lot like you hit a car.

Angie Reens 00:45:31  And I’m like, I don’t know, like, get inside. I mean, I was 21 at the time, and I just remember just thinking to myself, how did I survive? How did I even drive that? And then, you know, it goes into like, my dad actually talked to the insurance person and was like, she missed a deer. So I didn’t even. They had no idea. And like this big lie coming from, you know, at that time, I had no idea that he was struggling with alcohol as well. And then I was supposed to call the people and pay to have the work done or whatever. And my mom was standing right there. And like the child that I was, I pretended that I was calling them and like, hit the receiver button. So nobody was on the other line. And I told her no. They said, it’s fine that they’ll take care of it. And I didn’t tell her that story until probably we were talking about stuff.

Angie Reens 00:46:23  And I told her a couple of weeks ago, you know, I never, like, apologize to them. I mean, like, I should not be laughing, but it was just. What? That’s who I was. Whatever lie, whatever thing I could do. And it’s like always covering my tracks, always covering my tracks. But the crazy part about this story is I was at a probably five years after that happened. I was at a bar and this kid that I graduated high school with that I wasn’t friends with at all, I probably wasn’t very nice to him either. Came up to me at the bar, in the bar, and he’s like, do you remember being in a in an accident several years ago? And and that moment my heart like, dropped and I was like, and I kind of started to skirt around it because I didn’t know what he was going to say. And he’s like, I actually saw it happen. And I pulled over, got out of my car and asked you if you’re okay, and you’re like, I gotta get out of here and just took off and left.

Angie Reens 00:47:14  And my I am having so many emotions because I’m still drinking at the same time. But I said to him, thank you so much for stopping to make sure I was okay. I’m so sorry that I was probably such a bitch to you, but you know, things that I had done in my past were still continuing to show, like the damage that I had done and things that like that were still sitting inside of me. That’s just like one story of like, shit that I did or put people through. But I always felt so shameful, and I just felt like there was this side of me that was just this horrible, terrible person that like, what is wrong with me? Because I know that there’s good, I know there’s good in me. And that probably leads me to I was brought up Lutheran, you know, even though, like, I, would like, my mom would be like, it’s time for church. And I’d be like, I’m still sleeping or I’m sick, you know, to try to get out of it or whatever, but I am so grateful that she instilled that in me, because to be completely honest, that’s been like one of the, if not the thing that has helped me through this process is my faith and constant prayer, handing things over and telling myself, you are not the conductor on this train.

Angie Reens 00:48:29  You are just a passenger. God is in charge. He will take care of it. And it really I go back to that. I’m even more so spiritual than I was then. In my faith is just my guiding light. But that is what I rely on for everything in my life to help direct my path. Is trusting in God’s plan. And yeah, I just I know that, I know he’s been preparing me and he’s been working behind the scenes, and this was just part of it. And I believe that it will continue to evolve as I continue to grow my coaching business and support others and whatever they’re in recovery or self-worth or, you know, body image, I mean, the list goes on and on, but it’s just knowing that is what I have to stand on and what I have to like. Light my way is truly like, I it’s like I can’t even put words to it because I again believe that he’s the one who was just like, this is a gift. Let’s see what you do with your sobriety.

Angie Reens 00:49:35  And thank goodness I took it and ran with it.

Katy Ripp 00:49:38  And look what you’ve done.

Angie Reens 00:49:39  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:49:40  Speaking of coaching, I’d love for you to tell us, like, what’s happening there, because it’s. Honestly, I’m just so curious about. What are you going to do? Where is it going to go? I mean, we’ve been in this thing for a really long time, although it feels like it went so fast too.

Angie Reens 00:49:53  I know.

Katy Ripp 00:49:53  Yeah, spill it. Spill the tea. I’m so curious. And of course it might change, right?

Angie Reens 00:49:58  Yeah.

Angie Reens 00:49:58  Yeah, absolutely. And I’m so, like, open to that and just holding this very loosely. You know right now it’s just like one on one coaching. And I’m seeing a pattern of clients, primarily women that I’m working with that are kind of fed up with the way things have been going, the way that they’ve been living their life. It’s like they know there’s a change coming, but they don’t know what to do with it.

Angie Reens 00:50:24  They don’t know how to get there. Whether that is, you know, a huge life decision, a new job, leaving a marriage, just feeling like I can’t keep doing what I’m doing. I’m getting the same results. I need something different. And it goes back to that hope. It’s like this deep hope, this deep feeling, this deep knowing that there is something more, but I just don’t know where to start. So that’s been kind of a pattern. Also this like confidence and self-worth. I’m seeing a lot of that come through, and I believe that I’ve also dealt with that and continue to let that kind of evolve for myself. But it’s just like this, not enoughness. I’m not adequate. I’m not, you know, I’m not smart enough. I’m not good enough. I’m not pretty enough. I’m always trying to fix, always trying to change, always trying to like, look for like the new bright shiny object and outside validation. It seems like there’s so much of it’s kind of coming my way too, is it’s like I’ve always looked for everybody else to kind of tell me what to do, to tell me how to look, to help me, how to act, where I go to school, what my job is.

Angie Reens 00:51:33  And it’s like, I don’t really know how to like. I mean, and I say this loosely, but think for myself. So it’s like laying this groundwork, this scaffolding or foundation to be like, no, I’m an adult in my whatever, 30s or 40 or 50 or whatever it may be, and I’m going to make a change and this is how I’m going to do it, and I’m going to trust myself and my own wisdom that I know the way. And with the help of partnering with the coach or with someone that you trust. We’re going to move you closer to what you want to achieve, and you’re going to do it, and you’re going to be brilliant and amazing and awesome. But it’s just it’s like these little baby steps that so often I feel like as a society, it’s just like the quicker, the faster we want to get there. the easiest way. And it’s like, that’s not true. That’s not real life and the success does not come. Getting there quicker, getting there faster.

Angie Reens 00:52:28  The feeling of like accomplishment and success comes in that space in between when all of a sudden you just wake up when you’re day and you’re like, how the hell did I get here? I love this life that I’ve created, and I trust myself and I believe in myself. And the beautiful thing also is to see that filter into other areas of those that I work with. Their life is to see, you know, the gift that they have now and they’re able to like, share or express or teach or guide someone else in a way that they were never supported. I just I feel like there’s such like a effect of creating change not only in your own life, but then you create change in other people’s life. And they do and they do. And it’s just like this thing that just keeps on building and building, and we so need it in our world today.

Angie Reens 00:53:18  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:53:19  If somebody wants to work with you, where do they.

Angie Reens 00:53:22  Go?

Katy Ripp 00:53:23  What are they looking for.

Angie Reens 00:53:24  Yeah.

Angie Reens 00:53:25  So social media Instagram is @angiereens or @happinesscoachangie my two handles and then rootedmindfulmovement.com is my website, and there’s a scheduling page to book a call, or even just sending me a short email to connect are probably the two easiest ways to connect and get in.

Angie Reens 00:53:46  Touch, and we.

Katy Ripp 00:53:47  Will definitely put that in the show notes too. I have one last coaching question for you, because this is always just been like a curiosity. It’s just a question that comes up for me a lot, which is like, what is a life coach? Yeah. And the sort of like icky connotation we have around life coach. And one of like one of my real priorities of this podcast is to sort of because the mind Rebel Academy to me is like stripped all of my preconceived notions away from it. And I think that we’ve done a real disservice to coaching by believing that life coaching isn’t a legitimate job, or that people don’t need it, or it’s in the luxury item, or why don’t you just go to a therapist? Or you know what? All those, like, weird, icky feeling. And not everybody has icky feelings around it, and I certainly don’t anymore. But I did, and I told Taryn right away, like when I went into my discovery call about going into this coaching, I was like, I don’t like the term life coach.

Katy Ripp 00:54:51  I don’t know what it is about it. I think it’s got a weird symptom. Yes. I don’t know what it is. Yeah, but it’s got a weird something to me. And she’s like, oh, I get it. I mean, she did say she was like, oh, I understand. And actually their podcast goes into this on one of the episodes too, so I’m curious, it probably will end up being one of the questions I ask. All coaches I have on here is like, how do you feel about that term? What does it mean to you? What does it mean to you after MRA?

Angie Reens 00:55:21  Yeah, you know, I feel like I don’t remember if it was Taryn or Michelle, but one of them said something along the lines as it kind of gives this like feeling of like, I have my life figured out, so let me coach you sort of thing. And that is absolutely not like nothing about that is what a coach is or does in terms of like what I believe a coach is.

Angie Reens 00:55:46  I’ve said it a few times in the past just because it was like I was on the spot, and it’s like life coach. And then it’s like, you know, like that, that ick. And it’s like, even then it. Well, what’s a life coach? And it’s like, no, I absolutely don’t identify with that anymore. It’s more I mean, I always say I’m a mindfulness coach, I’m a personal coach or just a coach in general. And my belief is coaching is absolutely a partnership. It is a relationship. It’s an opportunity to co-create with one another and to really support forward movement. Taking someone from where they are now to where they desire to be. And that is not about trying to advise, fix, change. You know, there may be a moment where I take my coaching hat off and I say, okay, you know, this could be a moment for teaching or this could be a moment for consulting or mentorship. However, as a coach, I believe my role is to see just not only the the wisdom, but the knowing in my clients, but to believe in them, to believe that they can get their own answers, the answers that they seek.

Angie Reens 00:57:00  And I’m just there to hold really a warm like present space for them as really powerful questions so that they can get the answers that they’re looking for and start to kind of fill this space, the in-between space, so that they’re able to get to where they want to be. And the other thing about it is it’s like this beautiful dance between the coach and the coach, and it’s like always tossing like the baton or the light shining like a spotlight back on the client. And it’s like, well, what do you think? What do you want? How do you feel? And it’s like, who asks us those questions? Not very often. It’s like someone asked me a yes or no question. Or if they ask me how I am, I’m like, okay, good, but how does it really feel to say today? You know what, I feel like shit, but that doesn’t define me. Yeah, I may feel like shit or I have a ton of anxiety, but that’s not who I am and I think that it makes such an impact.

Angie Reens 00:57:55  It is very luxurious to really say, this is how I feel and I’m not ashamed of it. I’m not trying to hide it. I’m being very vulnerable and being very open, and to have somebody hold space for you that truly cares and truly believes in your worth and your success and like, wants to see you succeed and they’re not trying to direct you in any way is just such a I mean, like, it’s even hard for me to put words on it because it’s like after I either won and being coach or coach a client, it brings me back into alignment. It’s like when I teach someone, when I’m teaching a movement class or I’m teaching Pilates. That has always been for me like, no, yes, you can do this. And I see it’s like, I know before they know, like I’m like, no, I know you can do this. And they’re like looking at me like, no, there’s no way I can move my body this way. And I’m like, no, you can.

Angie Reens 00:58:50  I’ll like show you. I’ll help you get you there, and we’ll make adjustments along the way. But this is just like your little roadmap to wherever you want to be and to see, like the light bulb moments go off those new awarenesses and new learning. And it’s just it is such a beautiful way to connect with somebody and to truly see them for who they are. And like the coaching principle of seeing someone whole, capable, resourceful and creative is the only way that I see my clients, because I truly believe in that. And it just takes any pressure off to like, get anybody anywhere. So yeah, that is a long winded response, but I love it.

Katy Ripp 00:59:32  It was perfect.

Angie Reens 00:59:33  Here’s the other thing too is coaching is like I think of it as movement. I think you’re increasing your capacity, you’re increasing your flexibility, your, you know, like your brain is more flexible. You’re creating more like strength, that you’re not so rigid, things are not so rigid anymore or boxed in.

Angie Reens 00:59:53  It creates this sense of like flow, of ease, of peace. And you’re just continuing to strengthen these muscles. I had a client once tell me coaching is like doing push ups for the brain. And I was like, oh my gosh, I love that.

Angie Reens 01:00:08  I love that.

Angie Reens 01:00:08  Because it is like such a it’s like, I gotta hydrate afterwards because, like, I’m just like, oh, depleted. Whether I’m coaching or being coached, it takes a lot of work and we don’t do that for ourselves.

Angie Reens 01:00:21  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 01:00:22  other thing, when you were talking. When I had never been coached before, I was pure coached. Yeah. And I’ve been in plenty of therapy in my life, and it’s never really done it for me. So I’ve been in and out of therapy with lots of different therapists. The minute I got coached by someone who knew what they were doing right, was willing to be, you know, vulnerable in their coaching skills, too. Yeah. As soon as I got coached, I was like, oh my God, I’ve never had I don’t I this is different from anything I’ve ever experienced.

Katy Ripp 01:00:52  And I have always come up with because I’ve been with good coaches, I’ve always come up with my own ideas. They just pulled it out of me. Yep. And that is the most rewarding to be coached and also to be the coach and watch somebody have an epiphany, which is just a visceral knowing of something they already know and can act on it. Now is the most romantic, sexy thing I’ve ever seen. Like, it’s just the coolest experience, both as a coach and as the one being coached. I just don’t know that there’s anything better. Oh, this is so good, Angie.

Angie Reens 01:01:42  It’s so good.

Katy Ripp 01:01:44  I’d love to have you back on.

Angie Reens 01:01:45  I was already, like, thinking of like, oh, my gosh, I want to ask you this. And I’m like.

Angie Reens 01:01:50  Yeah, do that.

Katy Ripp 01:01:51  I mean, we could have like a whole round robin of this because I think it is really cool. And again, I don’t know why I think I should be an advocate for coaching, but it is something that I like really feel that passionate about now because I’ve experienced it like at a knowing level that I am capable of doing it and so is everybody else.

Katy Ripp 01:02:14  Like, I’m not special. I just had a good coach and to like, get down and dirty and peel back some of those layers and really like give people the space. And when you were saying like giving people the space to do, you know when you when somebody asks how you are and you’re like, oh, I’m busy, but fine, right? That’s the new response. Also, when I ask people how they are and they can give me actually this really fucking amazing thing happened to me and I want to tell somebody about it that doesn’t have any judgment, doesn’t think I’m bragging, doesn’t think I’m a narcissist. Doesn’t think I’m this and this. I’m just, like, genuinely listening and loving every second of somebody being in their own corner. I just like, when do we have the chance to tell people that we are fucking amazing, right?

Angie Reens 01:03:08  Exactly.

Katy Ripp 01:03:09  Like when.

Angie Reens 01:03:11  Like.

Katy Ripp 01:03:12  Never. Unless you’re on Instagram and you have the balls to say I did something really fucking cool today with no attachment to the outcome of somebody saying, well, you’re a narcissist, which actually is not the actual definition.

Katy Ripp 01:03:26  But I also just love to be like a champion and cheerleader for people, and this gives me the opportunity to do that. And I love it so much. So speaking of, it may sound really weird that I’m a coach and I’m like, advertising, you’re coaching. It’s not weird to me, right? Like there’s plenty for us to go around.

Angie Reens 01:03:45  Absolutely.

Katy Ripp 01:03:45  If you connect with Angie on this, I want you to call her up and have a coaching session with her. Right. Like, those are things that just like a therapist, you have to find the right person. And we’re all not going to be for everybody. So finding the right coach for you. And if this resonated with you. Absolutely. Like reach out to Angie. She will happily take you on as a client. I think we should do like a coaching round robin. I think it would be like, super fun to be, you know, either a coaching circle on here or whatever that looks like. So thank you so much for coming on.

Angie Reens 01:04:20  Thank you so much.

Katy Ripp 01:04:22  Appreciate it. And we’ll leave all of Angie’s stuff in the podcast notes. And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at KatyRipp.com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life.

Katy Ripp 01:05:18  And remember, #ActuallyICan.

Katy Ripp 00:00:00  The fear of failure or the fear of especially if you’re like an ambitious woman, it’s like we cannot have a fucking bad day because immediately somebody’s going to be out there like cheerleading, waiting for you to fuck up. It’s a horrible place to be, and it’s very common. Almost every single ambitious woman I’m talking to right now is having the same fear.

Katy Ripp 00:00:26  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan, the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defining what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie, you’ve come to the right place.

Katy Ripp 00:01:13  We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go.

Katy Ripp 00:01:26  So, have you ever been coached before? I mean, I know you are a coach. Like a.

Emily 00:01:30  Physical. Yeah, I was I’m still in the space of figuring out, like, what a coach like you does, but I can make my best guesses. I’ve never been coached from, like, a, you know, lifestyle or a professional coach perspective. So no, I guess that’s the short answer.

Katy Ripp 00:01:45  Any other modalities acupuncture, therapy, you know, yoga, whatever philosophy you sign in for.

Emily 00:01:53  You know, definitely therapy. Love me a good therapy session just signed up for three, actually. Did my little schedule. Got a girl? Yeah, but not like I haven’t been going consistently to therapy recently because I felt pretty good. Although it’s funny because I’m like starting to feel like not as good right now. So I’m like, oh, this is well timed.

Emily 00:02:11  So anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Good.

Katy Ripp 00:02:13  Mostly like some experience the best way I like to. And some coaches don’t love this theory. I think it’s like the most simplistic best theory. Well, first of all, I’m not a doctor, right. Like I have a year’s worth of international coaching training, but I don’t have years of psychology or psychiatry. So a I’m not a doctor, although I like to call myself one sometimes and be mostly therapy is like what has happened in your past and like to make you this way or, you know, whatever, like whatever talk therapy or modality you use, it’s usually looking backwards and seeing what’s contributing to the situation you’re in. Coaching is mostly looking forward, so mostly looking forward like what can we do with the information we have? How can we peel back some of the layers to see what’s like living underneath some of this? But we don’t necessarily need to talk about your parents and the relationship you have with them. Does that make sense?

Emily 00:03:13  Yep.

Emily 00:03:13  Yep. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:03:14  So any way that you like to arrive in, you know, any kind of session. So we could do some deep breaths if you feel like. Let’s just get into it. I’m not really sure what’s going on. Like just go. That’s totally fine too. But tell me, you know, if there’s anything you want to clear. If you want to tell me, you know how you’re feeling.

Emily 00:03:34  Yeah. It’s like my first day back from this trip. As you know, this, like, lovely vacation. So I’m feeling a little bit like, you know, that space, like you’re jumping back into it, and I don’t have, like, bad things to jump back into. It’s just like, yeah, now I have to think about things. Whereas before I didn’t have to think of last week, I didn’t have to think about a damn thing. So nice. So yeah, I’m kind of in a space of like maybe a little scattered at the moment, but doing my best to not be.

Emily 00:04:01  Yeah, that makes sense.

Katy Ripp 00:04:02  Perfect. So what would you like to explore today? You said, I know in a text you said you had a couple of things like that. Maybe has been knocking on your door.

Emily 00:04:11  Yeah. I think the biggest thing that’s on at the front of mind right now is I just went through a job transition and I’m working for the same organization, which is great, really awesome. Like mission aligned with my values nonprofit, as you know. But I’m like trying to figure out what my trajectory is right now. And I’m just like, not sure. And also I’m like, I was so used to the like, team that I was on before. I’m like navigating some like, team challenges that are causing me anxiety and like, how I show up in the workspace or workplace doesn’t feel quite as good right now as it has in the past, which is like, oh no, is it me? Is it the job? Is it the like, what’s happening here? Yeah.

Emily 00:04:56  So that’s where I’m at.

Katy Ripp 00:04:58  Obviously you came to the coaching call with that topic probably on the top of your mind. What are you looking for from like this coaching session at the end of this? Is there some way you’d like to feel?

Emily 00:05:11  I think I’d like to feel a little bit more clarity. And maybe some, like, getting out of my own head, you know, like having some external perspective. That’s usually what I found in the past with therapy and all that good stuff is just like, I’m so in my own shit that I can’t see what it actually is. And I want to have like a clear vision of that so that I can actually, like, make thoughtful and intentional decisions about how I show up at work based on some of those, like, external perspectives.

Katy Ripp 00:05:41  Awesome. So, like, if we got to the end of this call and you were like, okay, well, that makes sense. And now I can do a couple of things, like take a couple of next steps with that.

Katy Ripp 00:05:51  Feel good?

Emily 00:05:52  Yes, 100% okay.

Katy Ripp 00:05:55  Well, let’s dive on in this. Tell me about the first. Like what? Where does it feel like the right place to start. And by that I mean do you want to tell me about some situations you have going on that we can sort of work through?

Emily 00:06:11  Yeah, I think like maybe just starting with like a quick background of when I jumped into my role and where I was coming from, I was leaving teaching, as you know, because we’ve known each other for a few years, and that was such a stressful and anxiety ridden position. Like, I loved it because I loved the kids, which is what you hear almost every ex teacher say. But the job itself was just, you know, it was just too much. And I got into this new role at the organization I worked at where I was, you know, working with coaches like kids, youth sports coaches across the country. And I was like, dang, this is really awesome.

Emily 00:06:48  I get to feel like I’m like, I have some agency. Like, I’m helping, you know, the organization recognized my strengths and let me play into those, which was really important and really cool for me. The team I was on, it was like, what you see is what you get. Like, I felt very much like it felt like a little bit of a a bubble. I was like, how did I find these people? Like they’re very honest. They’re very open. If there’s like feedback, they tell you there’s like, you know, they went by like the meeting norms and the standards of norms for collaboration for healthy teams. I was just like, damn, this is great. And very much like our organization entirely is like that. However, I’m in an apartment now that has like a little bit of, like history of like some turmoil and people like not communicating as well as this other team. And so that’s kind of like the shift I’m experiencing right now. I’m missing that old like sense of showing up in a lighthearted way.

Emily 00:07:47  And now I’m, like, showing up with this kind of foggy interpersonal stuff. And then also, like, my job is more stressful. Okay. There’s that. Yeah, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:08:00  Tell me about the new job itself. Like the old job with your old team versus the new job.

Emily 00:08:07  Yeah. So the new job. This is also actually interesting. It was originally the position was vacated last fall by a former colleague of mine was the grants management position at my organization. I am not a grants manager. I don’t actually have like, professional experience in development. I’ve worked with non-profits for quite a while, but I’m not like a development person, right? Do you have some experience doing communications work and marketing? And so they kind of retooled the position into this role called development communications manager. And that role was kind of created as like a pathway for me to join this team. So pretty cool. Pretty awesome. It was also, you know, it wasn’t just about me, obviously, it was about the needs of the organization.

Emily 00:08:55  But they were like, hey, if this is something you want to do, we want to support you in that. Also 100% okay. If you want to stay in my previous role. So the new role is like working with our partners and doing a bunch of communications and marketing campaigns to help leverage our national brand, help people become aware of our mission, vision or values. And ultimately, the end goal is obviously to raise a lot of money. So high pressure, I think I go back and forth. I’m like half the time I’m like, this is super high pressure and I like don’t like that about it. And half the time I’m like, the world keeps turning if you don’t keep on right, like, no matter what, it’s not like they’re going to like kick me out of my role if we don’t get one foundation grant or something like that. So yeah, I go back and forth on that.

Katy Ripp 00:09:43  What attracted you? I mean, obviously they saw your talents in that, that they created the position or revamped the position to sort of fit what you were looking for.

Katy Ripp 00:09:55  What attracted you to that position? Like, you know, you had kind of a good thing going, it sounded like, with your team and the job and that kind of thing, but there was clearly something that made you want to move. Do you? Yeah. What that is?

Emily 00:10:10  Yeah. It definitely like I went back and forth when making that decision. It was very interesting. Like, I didn’t know what to do because I was like, man, I really enjoy aspects of both of these things and I think I could see myself succeeding at either one. One thing that I think you’ll appreciate is there’s the person who leads this new role, who’s the VP of our current team is a really strong female leader with a ton of badass experience. And I was like, I want to work for her. And then the other part of it was, I guess, just like trajectory of growth for my job, right? Like the other role, I kind of felt like the way the organization is structured and who were in other seats on the bus, like I wasn’t really going anywhere.

Emily 00:10:53  This had a faster possible trajectory, and I’m ambitious, but I’m also like struggling with that right now because I’m just like a little overwhelmed.

Katy Ripp 00:11:01  You’ve said the word trajectory a couple of times. What’s the end goal on the trajectory?

Emily 00:11:08  That’s a good question. I think I’d like to be at a director level in our organization and have people that I manage at some point in time. I think that would be super fulfilling as a former coach. Right. Like teacher. You know, I’ve always kind of been in these roles where I’m the one who’s like constantly doing the dirty work and I don’t want to say dirty work. It’s like a very negative connotation. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:11:31  Your operations. Right?

Emily 00:11:33  Yes. Operational work. But I want to test out my leadership and also like, acknowledge that I think I have something to bring in that space. So yeah, I think that’s the trajectory is like getting into that. I think I’m struggling because I feel like I just put a negative connotation on the, the word, like I said, dirty work.

Emily 00:11:52  And now I’m like stuck there. I think it’s like this. Well, I think it’s like this, this idea of leadership too, and like being a good leader and not just a like telling people what to do kind of leader and thinking ahead to like how I would want to show up in that space. But I’m not even there yet, so I’m getting a little ahead of myself.

Katy Ripp 00:12:13  Well, I don’t think so, but tell me about how do you want to show up in that space?

Emily 00:12:18  Oh, man. Yeah, I want to be somebody who’s trusted but not feared. I feel like there’s like, a little bit of sense of fear within that. Some of that. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just like a weird thing. Like, we just got back from a conference with our organization, which we’re a fully remote organization, so we don’t see each other in person often at all. And I want to be somebody that’s like, I want to be like the party kid. That’s not the tone I want, but I also want someone to feel like they can approach me and talk to me about anything without there being like a fear of implication of like, oh, are they going to judge me for saying x, y or Z, you know? Yeah, I think in terms of leadership too, there’s like an aspect of like servant leadership and doing some of that, you know, operational, dirty work when it needs to be done.

Emily 00:13:04  But then I also tend to be the person who doesn’t delegate well. So I fear this idea of like, it’s it’s like an interesting place. Like, I’m not I’m used to just being like, oh, there’s something that needs to get done. I’ll just do it because I know I can do it and I can get it done quickly. But you’re eventually going to be in a position where I can’t do that, and I’m kind of finding that now. So, yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:13:30  I mean, you are speaking to my soul right now because this is me. Yeah, I.

Emily 00:13:37  This is why I wanted to talk to you.

Katy Ripp 00:13:38  I really just love the fact that you can articulate it because the trusted, not feared part is so against the grain of any leadership we have in a patriarchal society. Right? Like. And business is just that’s just the way it is. I decided to do it differently. Have I run into some issues because of it? Yep. But I also have a whole team of people that really want to help me.

Katy Ripp 00:14:04  What I wanted to do was create a culture where people wanted to help each other. Yes, that’s it, 100%, right? Like if somebody needs help, I want somebody to be like, I can help. That’s like my only mission in life. Yeah. As far as staff goes or leadership goes. And I also am a worker. Probably like you are. So, like, I can do it all. I can make a super mean latte. Is that where my strengths lie? I don’t know. Is that where your strengths lie is to do the dirty work?

Emily 00:14:35  I mean, that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Like, I think you should go back to that word. Trajectory is like, I have enjoyed that for a really long time. I’m starting to feel like I’m outgrowing that, and I’m ready to take the next step of like, hey, I’ve got this like vision of how things could be. Who are the right people to help make that vision happen? And I’m getting a little ahead of myself because I’m definitely not in that job role yet.

Emily 00:15:01  But that’s what I want to do eventually.

Katy Ripp 00:15:04  So are you in a role right now where you could practice some of that?

Emily 00:15:08  Yeah, I think so, I think so, it’s so new, but I definitely think that there is ability to do that.

Katy Ripp 00:15:14  So yeah. Is there something holding you back or that when you think about doing that you’ve mentioned some interpersonal skills or, you know, issues. Is there something inside that is going to end up keeping you from maybe trying some of this stuff out?

Emily 00:15:31  Yeah, I think so. There’s it’s a really interesting I feel like in a way, and this is my sense of it, slash some things that other folks have told me outside of my own perspective. Me coming into the team was because there were some weaknesses that existed, and they really were like, we need to get somebody else in here who can help with stuff. And I feel like those there’s a little bit of like a threatening vibe, if that makes sense. So I’m trying to navigate that without being weird, and I feel like I’m just like feeling weird all the time.

Katy Ripp 00:16:11  Right? Sometimes when we try not to be weird, we just become more weird.

Emily 00:16:15  So weird. Yeah. There have been times where I’m like, wow, why did.

Katy Ripp 00:16:17  I say that? Thing? Like, that was a really weird.

Emily 00:16:20  Thing to say. So I’m trying to kind of like, strip away a little bit of that, like perceived baggage or real baggage. I guess it could be both and not let it affect how I work with other people, like, but I’m finding that really hard.

Katy Ripp 00:16:32  Okay. Is there clarity around who does what?

Emily 00:16:35  That’s what I mean. I’m a month and a half into the job, so probably not as much as there could be. But that’s one of the things I’m highly and acutely aware of in terms of like trying to make sure that’s always brought up. So yeah, there’s definitely like I’ve asked a lot of questions about that as anything has come up. I’ve been like, hey, is this my role? Is this not who’s doing this, who’s doing that? So yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:16:58  How does that feel?

Emily 00:16:59  Fine at times. And then it like stresses me out at other times. Yeah. I think there’s aspects of it that are totally good and like things are outlined as clearly as possible and job descriptions and things like that. But there’s still definitely a lot of overlap. And yeah, I mean, to this person’s credit to my face, they’ve not been like, hey, you’re trying to take X, Y, or Z from me. But there’s always like, I always kind of get worried about that too, because there are parts of that person’s job that have now become my job.

Katy Ripp 00:17:30  But they haven’t said anything to you like that?

Emily 00:17:33  No.

Katy Ripp 00:17:34  Is the unspoken body language, that kind of thing. Does it feel like that’s there at times?

Emily 00:17:42  Maybe in a small way, yeah, I think at times there there are. And I think there’s also, you know, to this person’s credit, they’ve also had any time when it does kind of reach ahead. They’re like, we just need to figure out whose job this is.

Emily 00:17:56  And I’m like, great, I agree, we do. So that’s been good.

Katy Ripp 00:18:02  Yeah. Has there been like roles written down or you know, this is always difficult in any kind of team situation, right. Especially if someone came in because someone else wasn’t doing their job well enough. Yeah. And so they brought somebody else in to, like, pick up your weakness. I mean, nobody loves that, right? Like, there’s just going to be some, like, defensiveness about that, right? However, how much of that is your responsibility or your fault?

Emily 00:18:35  It’s none, to be honest. Like Lisa, I don’t feel like it should be if I’m being. Yeah. I mean.

Katy Ripp 00:18:40  The answer is no. The answer is none. Zero.

Emily 00:18:45  The Midwestern girl in me is like, maybe some of it because I chose to accept the job.

Katy Ripp 00:18:50  But we can leave the Midwest nice at the door. Especially since you just got back from the coast. They don’t care. Exactly.

Emily 00:18:57  Nope.

Katy Ripp 00:18:59  They don’t care.

Emily 00:19:00  To that end, though, this is actually it made me think of something that I. I guess my fear is I don’t want to be perceived as a person who, like, sets a sniper like eye on something and, like, knocks down anything in my way to get there. And I’m worried that, like my ambitions to be a leader in this organization by default now look like there will be like collateral damage or like, I don’t give a shit about other people and whatever because of my ambitious nature. And that’s not what I want. Like, that’s not the goal. And it’s not like the perception I want to have happen. But I worry that could show up in some ways. Or it could be that narrative could be out there.

Katy Ripp 00:19:50  Do you think you are a sniper?

Emily 00:19:52  I mean, I want a good job and I want to do a good like, I want this career move, right? That is a career goal of mine. So yeah, I’m aiming for that.

Emily 00:20:03  But I don’t want there to be. I’d love it if there wasn’t anybody who was like, in the crossfire right now.

Katy Ripp 00:20:09  Got it. Is the way you’re describing it the like I’m an ambitious woman and therefore from me to get to A to B, there’s going to be collateral damage. And the only way to get there is to do it that way. And I don’t want to do it that way. Have you seen anybody else do it a different way?

Emily 00:20:30  I mean, yeah, I think I’m speaking very specifically about this work environment and the people in it. I also know that like, that’s just how stuff works, right? Like it’s a job, you interview for it, you work your way up, you work hard, try to find the right fit and go for it.

Katy Ripp 00:20:51  But do you think that, like stepping on people’s heads to get to the top, is the only way to get to the top?

Emily 00:20:59  Oh God no. No. Right.

Katy Ripp 00:21:01  So I’m wondering where the perception of you in being that person comes from.

Katy Ripp 00:21:08  It’s interesting the way you described it was King Kong. I’m going to get to the end, and I don’t care who I hurt.

Emily 00:21:14  Yeah, and that’s.

Katy Ripp 00:21:15  Not what the fear is. That school, you’re like, that’s the perception of you in any way, in any behavior. Have you ever given anybody the reason to think that way of you?

Emily 00:21:30  I don’t think so, no.

Katy Ripp 00:21:31  I mean, the answer is very likely. No, not just like. I don’t think so, but like. Yeah. So if you’re staying aligned to your values and what I’m doing and I do this with good intention all the time, how much do the opinions or the perception of you matter?

Emily 00:21:50  It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy in that regard, because if I’m aligned with my values, then the opinions that happen will be good. So it shouldn’t matter, right? Flash like it does matter, but it’s good stuff. Oh yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:22:06  Right. Like if the perception is true and it’s aligned with your values. So yes, we want that perception and we want to believe that perception.

Katy Ripp 00:22:15  The disconnect comes from your being perceived, or you think you’re being perceived as someone who you are not.

Emily 00:22:24  Yes.

Katy Ripp 00:22:25  How much of that is on you if you’re doing things exactly how you are meant to be, doing them with full good intention, with aligned leadership skills, you’re using your strengths for good And you’re doing that all the time or 80% of the time, right. Like you’re doing that and then somebody perceives you or you think somebody is perceiving you as something else. How much of that is your responsibility?

Emily 00:22:54  I mean, none, that’s the thing is, I think what you said there that got me is like the 80% of the time, right? Like, I feel really like to go back to kind of where I started the conversation. It’s like, I feel like I’m walking on eggshells, and if I fuck up like it’s going to be bad in a way that like a fuck up hasn’t been bad before, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like there’s me about that.

Emily 00:23:16  I’m more anxious about it now than I ever was before.

Katy Ripp 00:23:20  Describe to me what a fuckup would look like.

Emily 00:23:22  Oh, just, you know, like, what did I do the other day?

Katy Ripp 00:23:24  I like or whatever.

Emily 00:23:26  Yeah, I dropped the ball or, like, it can’t put something together by a certain deadline or, you know, put something out that’s not high quality product or that the perception is wrong. Right? Like there’s a lot of nuance in how we communicate about our organization and like, what if I’m just wrong.

Katy Ripp 00:23:42  And all that? Yep.

Emily 00:23:43  Exactly. And we’re dealing with, you know, an organization that has really strong values and it deals with youth. So that’s the big deal. Huge. And I think I’m yeah I’m worried about that because there have been like I think that’s the other thing too is I’m just trying to get used to the fact that I’m now in a position with marketing communications that like, there are going to be fuck ups, like, shit’s gonna happen, and I gotta just be comfortable with like managing mistakes and crises because.

Katy Ripp 00:24:14  And they might not all be yours.

Emily 00:24:16  Yeah, 100%. Right.

Katy Ripp 00:24:19  Like they might not all be yours. Like, hey, I said the wrong word or, you know, or the wrong word. There was a time in my notes here that I circled perfectionism.

Emily 00:24:31  Oh, yeah. I’m laughing just because, you know, like the first three years of therapy I did were about that. So, you know, recovering. Yeah, yeah, we’re.

Katy Ripp 00:24:42  All recovering perfectionists. It gets easier as you get older. Just.

Emily 00:24:45  That’s true.

Katy Ripp 00:24:46  Tell me about, like, if the shit hit the fan, right? Like, you have the, like, a colossal fuck up. What’s the consequence of that? What’s the worst that could happen?

Emily 00:24:55  They’re losing, like, my legitimacy and trusts people that people have trust in me. At my job, I feel like right now the trust is high that people respect what I do. So like essentially, I feel like people look to me right now is like someone who can get shit done, who does a good job and like, I don’t want to have that perception go away.

Emily 00:25:17  And I know that sounds ridiculous because I know, like one mistake is not going to cause that, but it still feels hard.

Katy Ripp 00:25:24  Yeah. Tell me about what comes after.

Emily 00:25:26  But yeah, I just have a fear of making mistakes and then losing legitimacy. And yet at the same time, I can hear myself. This isn’t just this moment that I’m having this conversation. It’s a that is a silly thing to think because everybody has mistakes. Everybody will screw up. Everybody will not do their job well at some point in time. And like, what’s the biggest consequence, right. Like I think the biggest consequence is your job.

Katy Ripp 00:25:55  But you’ve got another one of those.

Emily 00:25:58  Yeah. It’s true. It’s very true.

Katy Ripp 00:26:01  Is this something like that sort of fear of losing trust or legitimacy? Has it ever happened to you before that you’ve had to build yourself back up into a situation where you are right now?

Emily 00:26:13  No, I don’t think it has. And that’s the thing that’s like, funny is like, why am I afraid of something that hasn’t happened? And also, like, I hear all of these, you know, incredible stories of people who have had to go through that experience and how powerful it’s been.

Emily 00:26:27  And part of me is just like, why am I afraid? Yeah, it would be hard, but I don’t know that I should be afraid of it, I guess. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:26:33  And I mean, do you think if something bad happened that you have the skills to, like, bring yourself out of it? Do you trust yourself?

Emily 00:26:42  Yes I do, yes. And I trust also, like I have so many people in my corner that it’s kind of like silly sometimes to think about how many people support me. So yeah, feel a little bit. This is the moment where I’m like, why do I have these silly fears? You know, like this?

Katy Ripp 00:27:02  I can appreciate that because the fear of failure or the fear of especially if you’re like an ambitious woman, it’s like, we cannot have a fucking bad day. We cannot, because immediately somebody is going to, like, I found you out. I know you’re not perfect. I know you can make mistakes, too. And somebody’s going to be out there like cheerleading, waiting for you to fuck up.

Emily 00:27:31  It’s it’s a that’s what it feels like. Yes.

Katy Ripp 00:27:34  It’s a horrible place to be and it’s very common. I mean, I hate to say it right, like I haven’t been doing this that long, but almost every single person, every single ambitious woman I’m talking to right now, is having the same fear in different ways, different levels, different. I mean, I’m not saying you’re not special because you’re special. I mean, the most ambitious women also are fucking terrified of making a mistake that is going to completely wipe out their lives. And in reality, if you walk that fear backwards, I don’t know what you could do in your job to make it like a fireable offense, but you get fired, right? Yeah. What happens then? Like, you probably have enough savings. Maybe you don’t, but, like, you can probably go and find another job. I will hire you at the coffee shop. So, like, you know, like, not Dire Straits, right? Like.

Katy Ripp 00:28:29  And you just said, like, you’ve cultivated all these relationships over the years that nobody is letting you go destitute. Dot is never going to starve to death because somebody is going to help you, right? Because you’ve cultivated these relationships in the same breath, you’ve also cultivated a reputation of trustworthiness and legitimacy. Those are very hard things to break. You know, like in the movie world, it’s like, oh my God, you make one mistake and your trust is out the window. I don’t know what kind of mistake you could make, except maybe running over a child or something, right? Like on purpose. But even if it was an accident, people make mistakes. And if you are in alignment with your values, which are very high values and perfectly matched for your job, what could you possibly do that would give somebody the perception that you are a money hungry, greedy ladder climber. Like, I don’t know what you could do. Like, do you have an answer for that?

Emily 00:29:36  No, I don’t think I could.

Katy Ripp 00:29:38  Can’t imagine it because you can’t imagine it.

Emily 00:29:41  Yeah. No, it’s just like. Yeah. I mean, that’s the thing that gives me the most satisfaction in my job is just being able to do really good work and have it done well and see the result of that work and see how it impacts kids and communities. And so if that’s what I want to do, I don’t know how anybody could find fault with that.

Katy Ripp 00:30:02  So yeah, I mean, staying in that is that super easy all the time when somebody’s like, no smirking at you or rolling their eyes or you’re worried that they’re talking about you in the bathroom or whatever, like, is that super easy all the time? No. But when you get into these, like, I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing. I don’t know if this person has this opinion about me getting into, am I doing the job that I was hired for in alignment with my values in the mission of the nonprofit? And if the answer is yes, then that person has no bearing on what you’re doing.

Katy Ripp 00:30:38  Yeah. Easier said than done. And it’s a practice, right? Like when you get triggered and I’m guessing you have good body awareness that you get triggered, right? Like whether it shows up in your throat or your stomach or your shoulders or your tense or, you know, whatever that anxiety feels like in your body when you get triggered, the question to yourself might be, and you’ll have to make a habit out of this, whatever that question is like, am I in alignment with my job? And if the answer is always yes, then you never have to worry about what that other person is perceiving about you.

Emily 00:31:15  I’m writing this down.

Katy Ripp 00:31:16  Do it.

Emily 00:31:17  Can I go on my whiteboard over here?

Katy Ripp 00:31:19  I love that. Are you working in person? Is this an in-person situation?

Emily 00:31:25  No, it’s all remote.

Katy Ripp 00:31:26  Wow. And you’re feeling it through the screen?

Emily 00:31:29  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s like our remote work is a lot of things, but. Yeah. Yeah, it’s an interesting.

Emily 00:31:37  It’s a whole.

Katy Ripp 00:31:37  Thing. Whenever I hear stuff like this, too, it’s always. Maybe the universe is working with you to, like, change the situation, right? Like, maybe they won’t be there forever. Maybe you get a different opportunity. Maybe they get a different opportunity. Maybe you get a different opportunity. And also he or she or they are very likely there to teach you a lesson.

Emily 00:32:01  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:32:01  And what is the lesson here?

Emily 00:32:03  I think the lesson is to I think what you just said, am I working in alignment with my job, and I’m doing my job in accordance to my values. And if I am, and what else could I possibly strive for as a professional goal outside of that? And like add maybe like, am I a bad ass at my job? And then there you go.

Katy Ripp 00:32:26  Anything like becoming more clear right now. Like moving forward. What does this feel like or like?

Emily 00:32:32  I think it’s like when I’m starting to feel like I’m getting pulled into this.

Emily 00:32:36  Like, it’s not even like being triggered necessarily, but it’s almost of my own making. Like, I’m assuming these things are happening and like, whatever. Like take in a moment, take a breath, step out of it, go back to like that statement or that phrase. Am I performing in alignment with my job? Am I aligned with my values? The answer to both of those is yes. Full steam ahead. Don’t give a shit about any of this other stuff.

Katy Ripp 00:33:03  Yeah, because A it’s not your responsibility. And I think simply asking yourself, is this true? Right. Like, yeah. Is that perception of me true? Even if you’re worried that the perception is I’m being threatening, is it true? And their perception of you might be threatening but that’s their problem. If you’re in alignment with your values and you are leading from a good place and you’re leading from a place of. This is better for everyone, and this is better for the youth and sports and our non-profit. And I’m not being an asshole or I’m not being a total bitch about this, then not my problem.

Katy Ripp 00:33:48  If you have some insecurities about what you’re doing and your weaknesses, just not your problem. Easier said than done.

Emily 00:33:55  But mic drop also because that’s pretty much it.

Katy Ripp 00:33:59  Also, I would love to also hear like and maybe just this could be like an exercise that you write down.

Emily 00:34:05  Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:34:05  What qualities do you love about that badass leader you have. Because my guess is that they’re not threatening. They’re doing it in a different way that aligns with your values. So it might be really helpful to just be like, what do I love about this person and how can I emulate that behavior if it’s something that’s like, powerful for you? Yeah, that might be helpful.

Emily 00:34:33  Yeah, 100%. That would actually be a really good thing to do in terms of like just an intentional exercise. I think just thinking of leadership in general at this point in time in my career will help me more clearly define the path I want to take. Yeah, so.

Katy Ripp 00:34:49  And that it’s okay to step away from the dirty work.

Katy Ripp 00:34:53  I mean, that could be a whole nother session is like, yeah, operations versus the big dreamers versus leadership. Right. Like there there are ways to do. I just had this conversation with one of my staff today. You don’t have to be an expert in what you’re doing to be a good leader. Period.

Emily 00:35:12  Yeah, let’s have another conversation about that, because that is actually the other piece that I was potentially going to get into was like, I feel like a jack of all trades, master of none. And so like, worry that I am not legitimate in this new role because of, like my lack of experience or whatever. But I need to hear that. I need to hear that. Like, you don’t have to be an expert at everything to do. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:35:36  I mean, we were talking about, you know, like hiring a weekend manager, and they were like, well, we’d have to train them up and it would take us years to get them to like, management level.

Katy Ripp 00:35:46  And I was like, no, they don’t need to know shit about coffee. They don’t. Yeah, they need to know how to manage people. Those two things are not exclusive. You don’t have to know how many seconds an espresso machine should run in order to make sure somebody is doing their job, period. You could be a coach, and there are lots of coaches that have the expertise in sports and have never played the sport, or have never been a professional.

Emily 00:36:15  Sometimes that like beginner’s mindset or that like coming in from a space outside of the expertise is actually incredibly beneficial. But because we can get.

Katy Ripp 00:36:24  Really stuck in the weeds of this thing that I know everything about is the problem. That’s not the problem. The problem is up here, right? Or down here or whatever, but it’s not the actual machine that’s the problem or what? Or whatever it is. We could go real far into that too.

Emily 00:36:46  Because, I mean, all right.

Katy Ripp 00:36:47  Opened up all three of my places.

Katy Ripp 00:36:49  I mean, aside from drinking it out of a box, I didn’t know shit about wine. I could tell anything about coffee. And I knew very little about ice cream, except that I like to eat it. Right. Like you just. You don’t need to know that stuff. You need to know people, relationships and your own values to be a leader and the culture.

Emily 00:37:09  You want to have, right? Like.

Katy Ripp 00:37:11  And a culture that is aligned with your values. It sounds like you know your values pretty well, but there are so many people that have never taken a values assessment. Like, yeah, yeah, I have no idea what that is. I mean, when have you ever been taught about values if you’ve not been in like a personal development self-help situation? I didn’t take a values assessment until I was 43 years old, and it was like some quiz online. You know, so, so important to know those. It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on that. But yeah.

Emily 00:37:43  I love this. It doesn’t hurt to revisit them and think about them in the context of that leadership piece.

Katy Ripp 00:37:48  And I’ll send you a PDF. I have a PDF of a values assessment like.

Emily 00:37:52  Oh, that’d be great.

Katy Ripp 00:37:53  Or something. And sometimes it’s really what, like each of my businesses, this could be done for your job to. Each of the businesses have their own set of values. So when I make decisions up against, you know, like when crossroads has to make a decision, it’s not Katy Ripp’s decision. It’s crossroads decision. And it’s in alignment with their values because their values are different than mine. And your job values are different than your personal values. Lots of overlap, right? Lots of overlap. But your relationship values are different than your professional values, and you know, that kind of thing. And when we can pull those things apart a little bit, it helps to be able to say, well, I’m making this decision from a leadership role, and these are the values of my leadership.

Emily 00:38:43  Yeah, these are the.

Katy Ripp 00:38:44  Values of my team. And this is how. And so when you make decisions it’s not so personal. Right. Like it’s not so like, oh my God Emir is a horrible person, right. Like this is a horrible decision. This makes me a bad person. None of this decisions you’re making at work make you a bad person, period. But it always is nice to like, oh, I can measure that decision. Like it’s a measuring stick, basically. Yeah. I’ll send it to you that we’re done here.

Emily 00:39:12  I’ve done it for myself. Personally, I’ve never done it from a, like thinking about those different buckets. And that is a revolutionary mindset for me because I am working in a nonprofit where there is so much overlap with, like, I care so deeply about our mission and what we do, and I believe in it so much, and that those values do overlap. But like just having that permission to like, tease those things apart. Yeah.

Emily 00:39:36  And then tease apart, like how I show up in work as a person have those values as well. I’m like really excited to do that and to think about that and what it looks like. Yeah. And again.

Katy Ripp 00:39:48  You’re going to have a ton of overlap right. Like yeah, there’s going to be a ton of overlap. But there’s probably going to be one significant difference that when you can remove yourself a little bit from that and you can make that decision separately. Yeah, it’s a game changer. It has changed everything for the businesses, for me, because crossroads is its own person. She has his her own set of values. Yeah, it’s different than mine.

Emily 00:40:14  Yeah. It’s like you said, it’s just it removes it. It’s not personal anymore. And I think that’s sort of like where all this anxiety comes from for me is like, it’s a personal, like the way that this thing falls, like, you know, whatever happens here is a reflection on me personally. And it’s not so it’s not it’s a job.

Katy Ripp 00:40:32  It’s a job. You can be really passionate about it. And I say this a lot. Ambitious women don’t have a real great line between professional and personal lives, like it’s blurred at best, if it even exists at all. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. But when we make decisions, we have to make sure that we’re removing our like poor, tender hurts from it because we also have, like, pretty tender hearts that can be trampled on. And then all of a sudden it bleeds over into all of the other shit in your life. So keeping that stuff separate, I feel like just having its like own little values assessment is a good idea, so I’ll send that to you immediately.

Emily 00:41:16  Thank you. That’s so true. I’m looking forward to it.

Katy Ripp 00:41:19  Good. Anything that I can help you with. Like, is there any way you want to leave the session? Anything you want to tell me? Any golden nuggets?

Emily 00:41:29  No. I mean, I feel like we covered a lot of them.

Emily 00:41:31  I think the values piece, the showing up and and performing, you know, authentically in my job. With those things in mind. That’s huge. And removing myself personally from it as well. I’ve gotten so many little good nuggets of wisdom from you. Reframing things that I may have heard before that are now better in terms of like, I can relate to them more because you’re also a badass, ambitious woman. So yeah. Thank you. This has been super helpful. Good.

Katy Ripp 00:42:00  What you expected or different?

Emily 00:42:03  I mean, I didn’t have tons of expectations like.

Katy Ripp 00:42:06  Yeah, but this is great.

Emily 00:42:08  No, I’m so happy. Like, I’m so glad that I took the I was feeling a little bit vulnerable being like, oh, I’m going to do a podcast and do a coaching session. And I know, I’m so glad that I did.

Katy Ripp 00:42:18  Yeah. So thank.

Emily 00:42:19  You. Yeah.

Katy Ripp 00:42:20  Well, thank you so much for being my guest here. I love talking with you. And I could do that all day long, so if you want to do it again, I would love to hear, you know, like the next week if there’s anything like that came up that you could do differently, that you did do differently.

Katy Ripp 00:42:35  Yeah.

Emily 00:42:36  For sure. I think I’m actually looking forward to going into this week kind of after reset vacation wise, coming back into the job with some new space and perspectives, because I think that’s going to be super helpful. Thank you. Good.

Katy Ripp 00:42:49  Yes of course.

Emily 00:42:50  Thank you. Katy. All right. Bye.

Katy Ripp 00:42:55  And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at Katy Ripp dot com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Katy Ripp 00:43:36  Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember #ActuallyICan.

Kaitlin Payne (00:00:00) –  Make your own sunshine wherever you go. You have to. Every day that we wake up and put one foot in front of the other and literally just get dressed is a choice some days. Don’t get me wrong, some days, like the day she passed is very hard. Getting out of bed is hard. Do we do it? Yes we do. This is how I’m choosing to live my life. Because she didn’t have a choice. She didn’t have a choice. She doesn’t get to do this. And there are so many people in our lives that we know that they don’t have a choice. So this is my choice to wake up in the morning and make the best out of my day.

Katy Ripp (00:00:38) –  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to hashtag. Actually I can the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride. Defining what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity.

Katy Ripp (00:00:56) –  On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor, and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie. You’ve come to the right place. We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go.

Katy Ripp (00:01:38) –  Can we talk about the fact that we have the same name?

Kaitlin Payne (00:01:40) –  I know when you sent your email… 

Katy Ripp (00:01:43) –  How old are you?

Kaitlin Payne – 34.

34 okay. So we’re yeah, we’re 12 years apart, which is why we never really, like, crossed, you know, our stuff never crossed. But yes. So for any listeners out there right now, Kate Kessenich. Yes. Is your maiden name. Yes. Katie Kessenich is my maiden name.

Katy Ripp (00:02:01) –  Sort of fascinating. It’s crazy. Yeah. And we’re not related? No, as far as I know. Anyway, welcome to the podcast.

Kaitlin Payne (00:02:07) –  Thank you.

Katy Ripp (00:02:08) –  This is, like, meant to be a conversation, so I’m not going to put you on the spot. You stop me. I’m pretty good at, like, asking pretty forward questions if you’re not into it. And that’s fine. My interest in this like sort of hashtag actually I can podcast is to talk to people that have sort of been to the depths of despair. Done all the things that either they said they couldn’t, or that you never thought would happen to you or the like. The biggest fear that people have, like as a mother, the biggest fear you have is that you will lose your child. I don’t know that there’s a bigger fear now.

Kaitlin Payne (00:02:51) –  I mean, it’s crazy. Your child is supposed to outlive you. Yeah. You know, that’s how it’s supposed to go. That’s how it, you know, is supposed to be.

Kaitlin Payne (00:03:00) –  And then our life kind of got turned upside down.

Katy Ripp (00:03:03) –  Yeah. I’m just going to kind of let you go into it. Tell me your story. It doesn’t really matter where you start. I do definitely have some specific questions about Riley and what you guys are doing to celebrate her going forward and that kind of thing, But I really do love sort of the connection of, like, your whole life, right? Like everybody wants to know if you’re just a normal human being, right? Like correct and normal from like, middle Wisconsin. You’ll tell by our accents in Wisconsin. Every time I hear a podcast or like, see.

Katy Ripp (00:03:37) –  Stuff on Instagram.

Katy Ripp (00:03:37) –  I’m like, but are these people normal?

Kaitlin Payne (00:03:40) –  Right? Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:03:41) –  Like, are they normal? Do they have golden oak trim in their house?

Kaitlin Payne (00:03:46) –  Don’t look at my turn when you come in my house.

Katy Ripp (00:03:49) –  Well, mine is golden oak as well. So I think like the more relatable we can get. And these are just like we’re just real humans.

Katy Ripp (00:03:58) –  So of course.

Kaitlin Payne (00:04:00) –  So I guess I should start in sixth grade. So that’s where my, like, kind of cancer walks into my life. And before all of this, I was adopted into this family because my mom had cancer. So she got cancer in her I want to say it was late 20s, early 30s.

Katy Ripp (00:04:18) –  Your biological mom got. No, no. My.

Kaitlin Payne (00:04:20) –  Yeah, my mom died.

Katy Ripp (00:04:22) –  Well, I didn’t know she had cancer.

Kaitlin Payne (00:04:24) –  Yes. Yeah. Before the pancreatic.

Katy Ripp (00:04:27) –  Oh, I didn’t know that.

Kaitlin Payne (00:04:28) –  She had breast cancer.

Katy Ripp (00:04:30) –  And the reason I think I know everything is because I grew up with this family. Correct. So I think I know everything. Yeah. We’re all out there. Go ahead.

Kaitlin Payne (00:04:39) –  So I had kind of grown up, you know, doing relay for life and, you know, always doing the Susan G. Komen race for the year. I think it’s called we always had a team. And you know, my mom is one of 12 so extended family is giant.

Kaitlin Payne (00:04:57) –  You will never find a more welcoming family than mine. They’re amazing. So when my sister got diagnosed with cancer at 19, obviously that’s a whole nother story that she can kind of tell. When I was in sixth grade, I obviously heard cancer and I was like, oh, like, is she going to die? You know, I remember asking my mom like, what’s going on? My mom goes, she’s going to be fine. She’s going to fight. She’s going to be fine. So my brain, I’m like, she’s going to be fine. And they did a very good job of sheltering me. Obviously being so much younger than my sisters, both of them, I was kind of the only child at home, like my sister was off. She lived in an apartment downtown. And then I would say she moved home when she got sick. But my schedule did not slow down. Yeah, it didn’t. It just my dad took me to basketball, soccer, softball, volleyball, whatever, you know what I mean? My mom kind of was Kelsey’s main caretaker at the time.

Kaitlin Payne (00:05:57) –  And, you know, on chemo days, I would go have a sleepover at a friend’s. And unbeknownst to me, I was like, oh, perfect, are you going to DH’s house? Like, this is great, you know? And there are times I remember where it was like, can you please be quiet? You guys go downstairs? Or like I also specifically remember when I would come home from practice and, you know, be come on from basketball. Stop. You’re sweaty. You’re smelly. She did not like that. Which made her sick, right? Like now we all know why. Whatever. I look back and I’m like, oh, okay, wow, this is what this. But they did an amazing job of sharing the details that I needed and sharing the details that I didn’t. Yeah, right. So, you know, my first experience was, you know, obviously she did what she had to do. Cancer is gone. You know, we’re celebrating doing more things that involve cancer.

Kaitlin Payne (00:06:52) –  Now everybody’s raising money for breast cancer and going to this and doing this and this and that. Then ten years later, my sister gets cancer again.

Katy Ripp (00:07:03) –  Same sister? Yes.

Kaitlin Payne (00:07:04) –  Same sister. Yep. Same sister or all. What the fuck? What is like. You know what I mean? Like, this is crazy. What is going on? Yeah. Thinking. Okay. Putting this behind us, you know, my mom hadn’t had any health scares since her cancer.

Katy Ripp (00:07:21) –  Did they both have breast cancer? Yes.

Kaitlin Payne (00:07:22) –  So they had the BRCA gene.

Katy Ripp (00:07:24) –  Which.

Kaitlin Payne (00:07:25) –  A lot of people in my family had. And obviously that’s their stories to tell. Yeah. But that they did a whole UW health did a whole study on them and their genes and things like that.

Katy Ripp (00:07:36) –  So I think I know everything I don’t. Right.

Kaitlin Payne (00:07:38) –  We are literally you ask any one of us to sit down and talk about it, and you know that they will. So she gets cancer. The second time I go to college in Minnesota at Winona State.

Kaitlin Payne (00:07:49) –  I’m back for the summer to Nannie, the best three girls ever in the summer of my college years. So she ended up choosing to have treatment in Chicago, where she lived. Okay, so my mom took work off and went down there and was kind of with her. And she also had a boyfriend at the time who helped and everything. She got through it completely fine, you know, completely fine. You know, she’s doing really good. She I can analysis. She had scans last week with no evidence of any disease.

Katy Ripp (00:08:20) –  So saying.

Kaitlin Payne (00:08:21) –  Right. She gets scans every so often. And does your whole family get scans. No.

Katy Ripp (00:08:26) –  Okay.

Kaitlin Payne (00:08:27) –  Oh I also should okay. Okay, so this is how fucked up this is. Before my sister got cancer the second time, the summer of 2008, when I was going into school in Winona, Minnesota, my dad found out he had cancer behind his eye. Wow. So my dad is blind in one eye. Oh, I didn’t know you wouldn’t be able to tell.

Kaitlin Payne (00:08:50) –  I mean, yeah, he’s everyone’s lifeline. Yeah. pretty much innit? That scared the shit out of me. Like I was like, what are you talking about? Like the like you’re joking. Right. Like. And I and my dad’s quote unquote boy. Yeah, I did all the sports, so we were, you know, I’m going out there and he would take me to side jobs. I learned how to, you know, mix mortar, put brick by brick, building things. Right. So when he got sick, I was like, you’re joking, you’re joking. And he’s like, I’m gonna be fine. They literally makes this joke all the time. So they did radiation straight to his eye, right? Wow. And so he had a radiation patch and no one was allowed to come within a certain amount of time. Oh my gosh, I said, that’s the best time of his life. Everyone left him alone. I’m like, oh, whatever, You know, flipping the bird like, did you see that, pal?

Katy Ripp (00:09:45) –  What are you going to do? Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:09:47) –  So he’s in good health, goes and gets his eye, you know, looked at, you know, once a year you know. Yeah. But so that was in between my sisters. I think it was two years before she got diagnosed that second time. So cancer just, you know, fumbling around in our whatever. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:10:07) –  Do you find that, like, desensitized to, like, every time you heard it?

Kaitlin Payne (00:10:11) –  That’s the thing. Yeah. It’s almost to a point in being. My oldest sister can talk about this all the time. It’s kind of just like a numbing and, like, nothing surprises me anymore. If you told me something that was kind of sad. And don’t get me wrong, like. And that’s what I pride myself on, is like, you can talk to me about anything and I’m, I’m gonna talk to you about it, and I’m not gonna like I hate when people compare struggles in like, because obviously struggles in your life. They’re important in your life.

Kaitlin Payne (00:10:41) –  Like, this is my life, and I’m not gonna. You know, I don’t like when people do that. And they’re like, well, at least you don’t have this going on. And like, we could play that game all day. Yeah. But I like that’s.

Katy Ripp (00:10:54) –  Yeah. I’m not into it.

Kaitlin Payne (00:10:55) –  No. Yeah. It’s just not it’s like what good does it do. Yeah. Nothing does absolutely nothing. Nothing. So then we’re doing that. Obviously Kelsey gets over her second cancer. Super healthy.

Katy Ripp (00:11:07) –  How old was she at that time. Like 29. Yeah. Is that right? Because they were ten years apart. Yes okay.

Kaitlin Payne (00:11:11) –  29. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:11:13) –  Young. Yep.

Kaitlin Payne (00:11:14) –  And so obviously I’m you know, in college. Whatever. Fall in love in college in Minnesota. Meet my best friend in the entire world. And so we kind of. We lived in Middleton, the little Waunakee, then we lived in Windsor. So. And that’s where we finally decided to have a baby.

Kaitlin Payne (00:11:36) –  It took us over a year to get pregnant. Oh, really? Wow. My pregnancy. I threw up every single day. I was like, what is going on? Like, you know what? Everyone’s like that. I was like, oh my God, this means she’s healthiest baby ever.

Katy Ripp (00:11:51) –  Oh, that’s an interesting thing to say right there.

Kaitlin Payne (00:11:53) –  Like, oh, it’s only means that she’s, you know. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. So the shit.

Katy Ripp (00:11:58) –  People say that for sure.

Kaitlin Payne (00:12:01) –  So, you know, beautiful baby girl. It was awesome. Our nurse was great. Riley arrived. She’s my sister. My oldest sister. Four boys first.

Katy Ripp (00:12:12) –  Yeah. Did you know she was a girl? Nope.

Kaitlin Payne (00:12:14) –  Okay. Nope. We left it up to surprise. So everybody is amazing. My four nephews just love her. She loves them. Like. And I’ll get into that later. About the. She was so attached to them. That’s all. You know. She loved them so much.

Katy Ripp (00:12:30) –  When was her birthday?

Kaitlin Payne (00:12:31) –  October 10th.

Katy Ripp (00:12:32) –  Oh, the day before.

Kaitlin Payne (00:12:33) –  My. Yes. She’s my October baby. So she shares a birthday with Brett Farve and my Uncle Ken. So, anyways, it’s Labor Day weekend. It’s my mom’s birthday, and we’re going to the taste of Madison. It’s so exciting. My mom used to call her birthday weekend extravaganza. So, you know, don’t ask us where we got it. And earlier that week, my husband Tyler was changing Riley’s paper, and he’s like, I thought I felt something weird on her stomach. And I was like, okay, you know, she’s acting fine. Yeah, she’s bubbly, like she was having the time of her life at the Taste of Madison. Yeah, we have pictures to prove it. So then I like I’m changing your diaper. And that Saturday, before we literally go to the taste of Madison, I’m like, well, I do kind of feel it a little more. So then I called the nurses line and they were like, she acting fine.

Kaitlin Payne (00:13:21) –  I’m like, yeah, just totally fine. And she’s like, well, maybe just make an appointment with your primary on the Tuesday because obviously Monday, Labor Day. Oh it’s Labor Day.

Katy Ripp (00:13:30) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:13:31) –  So I was like, okay, perfect. Yeah. So, you know, I made an appointment and she’s doing fine. And the doctor like, feels.

Katy Ripp (00:13:39) –  Like on Tuesdays.

Kaitlin Payne (00:13:40) –  Yes. Yeah. And I went alone because this is the first day of school. My husband, mind you, is a special ed teacher. All right. So he’s at middle school in some prairie. I’m taking Riley to a routine checkup, I think because I’m like, what.

Katy Ripp (00:13:57) –  Did you think it was?

Kaitlin Payne (00:13:58) –  I thought it was just, like, maybe like a nodule or something. Oh, you mean like a like a.

Katy Ripp (00:14:02) –  Hernia or something? Yeah, because.

Kaitlin Payne (00:14:03) –  It was in her stomach and I was just like, okay, this is weird, you know, not suspecting anything.

Katy Ripp (00:14:10) –  Plus your first time mom.

Katy Ripp (00:14:11) –  Right. So you’re like, that’s the thing, right? I want to take her in, but you don’t really think anything. I’m like.

Kaitlin Payne (00:14:15) –  She’s. And, you know, everyone’s like, she’s acting fine. Yeah, whatever. She’s eating. Sleeping, you know? Yeah. Nothing’s whatever. So the doctor goes, she’s had this since went. And I was like, Thursday. I said, you know, we called the nurses line. She goes, and they didn’t tell you to come in. And I was like, no. She’s like, okay, well, you guys need to go to the children’s hospital right now. And in my brain I’m like, wait, what? Like trying to kind of puzzle piece together? I was like, kind of like, okay, like slap myself, like, okay, get it together. Like, you have to go here. So I called Tyler. I’m like, you need to leave school. Can they.

Katy Ripp (00:14:56) –  Work there? No. Okay.

Katy Ripp (00:14:58) –  No. Did she know to send you to the hospital? Like. Well, I mean, I’m not a doctor, but, like.

Kaitlin Payne (00:15:03) –  I’m guessing she just felt it and was like, this is way not normal.

Katy Ripp (00:15:06) –  Yeah, okay. Like, which.

Kaitlin Payne (00:15:09) –  I guess how does it maybe tell you that they have a tumor? Yeah. They don’t. Right. It’s the it is what it is. So he picks us up. He’s like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you doing in my husband? He’s an emotional guy. He loves so hard.

Katy Ripp (00:15:25) –  Like, he.

Kaitlin Payne (00:15:26) –  Was like, what is happening? What is happening? And nothing has ever happened like this in his family.

Katy Ripp (00:15:32) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:15:33) –  So we go there, we get to the hospital, you know, and this is all like, right, your brain kind of lets you have memories that you want and blocks the ones that you don’t. So and I kind of remember, like calling my mom, being like, what I hit.

Kaitlin Payne (00:15:49) –  They’re sending us to the children’s hospital and she’s like, okay, just go there. They’ll be fine. So we did. We park, we go inside, they do an ultrasound, and then they’re like, okay, you guys go on up to the fifth floor and we’re like, what the fuck is the fifth floor? You know what I mean? And this is all kind of intertwined with my family as well, because my cousin was a pedes nurse in oncology. She worked on the fifth floor at American Family Children’s Hospital. So when we got there, I was like, what’s going on? They brought us into a room finally, like both of our families.

Katy Ripp (00:16:27) –  And you up the fifth floor, oncology. And don’t tell you that’s where you’re going.

Kaitlin Payne (00:16:31) –  They were kind of just like, all right, we’re going to go up here and talk, okay? Okay. Well we think this is cancer and we think this is XYZ. We’re going to take blood work. And that’s where we met our.

Kaitlin Payne (00:16:43) –  So when you check into the hospital you get a nurse and they are like your main nurse. So anytime that they’re working, you will have them. It’s kind of a really nice, actually.

Katy Ripp (00:16:57) –  Oh, I didn’t know until you don’t like them, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:16:59) –  Correct, correct. Which anyone on that floor. They have heart of gold. So. And we I love her. I still talk to her to this day. She comes to our golf outing every year and sits on the whole. And it’s really cool here.

Katy Ripp (00:17:12) –  Do you think, is that something specific to American Children’s? Do you think?

Kaitlin Payne (00:17:16) –  I fully believe that. God, I.

Katy Ripp (00:17:18) –  Love to support that. That’s pretty cool, right? That’s a really. Because you don’t know what the fuck, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:17:24) –  You’d have no clue. Yeah, you have no clue what’s going on. Her name is Laurie. She’s the best I’ve ever really loved her. Like, loved her well.

Katy Ripp (00:17:32) –  And something familiar for the kids, too, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:17:35) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:17:35) –  And I mean, they’re they may have all given us, you know, the red carpet treatment because of my cousin. Yeah. Which. Who cares? Yeah. Whatever.

Katy Ripp (00:17:44) –  It doesn’t matter, right? It’s not what you know. It’s who you know. Correct.

Kaitlin Payne (00:17:48) –  And then we also the doctor who was ever on at the time is your primary doctor. So we also struck gold there with Doctor Diamond. Doctor Carol diamond. She has recently retired, but she’s very much still in our lives. Emails. You know, once in a while. She is just a great person to talk to. Anyways. So once we’ve had, you know, time to kind of process this, I in my brain am going, I’ve seen how many people get through this. Like not an ounce of my body believed that she would die. And I’m telling you that, like, wholeheartedly, it never even crossed my brain. I said, it’ll be fine. Like, what are we talking all these people?

Katy Ripp (00:18:30) –  I’m fine.

Kaitlin Payne (00:18:31) –  Like, these people are fine. And that’s kind of like my husband was kind of with the diagnosis having at a harder time, but like, he was just like, what is going on? And in my brain, I’m like, nope. We just do what the doctors say. We do the chemo, you do the surgery, you’ll be fine. We have proof. Take the course. You do fine. Right. And then because she was fine, they were like, okay, you can go home tonight. I think that was. Yeah, Thursday. And then Friday she kind of had like a hard time breathing. And we were like, what is going on? So call the doctor. Like bring her in. So then we ended up starting chemo. Literally. That’s how fast this thing grew. What? Yeah. And then it stuck out of her body.

Katy Ripp (00:19:17) –  So, my God.

Kaitlin Payne (00:19:19) –  We were like.

Katy Ripp (00:19:20) –  Am I? So from the first time Tyler felt it until, like.

Kaitlin Payne (00:19:24) –  Like, literally a.

Katy Ripp (00:19:26) –  Week later. Yeah. Oh my God.

Kaitlin Payne (00:19:28) –  So this was clearly like, you know what I’m saying? Fast growing. But this is the hard thing. And it still irks me to this day that they can’t tell me where she got it from. They can’t tell me if I gave it to her with With children’s cancer, they have no research. No, there’s no research.

Katy Ripp (00:19:48) –  Why is that?

Kaitlin Payne (00:19:49) –  Nobody knows. I don’t know, they claim that they don’t have any money. That’s why all of our proceeds basically go to children’s cancer research. Because there’s nothing there. They get 4% of, like, the United States allotment of cancer, 4% goes to pediatric. Which it’s like what? Like how does that make any sense? Yeah, like no sense at all. Even with, like, Alex’s lemonade stand is a popular for, you know, stuff like that. But it’s just it’s shitty. Yeah, of course shitty. But like, obviously that’s after the fact that she died. Like, I was like, you can kind of look at her body and said a little bit, obviously, like, we want her back.

Kaitlin Payne (00:20:34) –  Like she’s, you know, yeah, ours. But obviously with, you know, when we finally got over the fact that the diagnosis, it was like, okay, game on. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They sent her biopsy away to see if it was, you know, there’s actually a which is crazy to me, a cancer that will go away, that we’ll just, you know.

Katy Ripp (00:20:56) –  Like you grow out of it.

Kaitlin Payne (00:20:58) –  Somewhat. She kind of explained it to you that it would like kind of, you know, just with age if we, you know, removed it like it would just, you know, it’s not. And I was like, okay, great. Okay. That’s great. It’s gonna be like, we’re not even here. Yeah. It’s gonna be like, we have we didn’t even have this.

Katy Ripp (00:21:13) –  That’s where your head went. Yes. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:21:16) –  Come back. It’s the bad kind. That 1 in 1,000,000 or something. Half or whatever.

Katy Ripp (00:21:23) –  What was it?

Kaitlin Payne (00:21:24) –  Neuroblastoma.

Kaitlin Payne (00:21:25) –  Okay, so when they measured it, it was like, I want to say like 5 or 6in or something in there. So it was, you.

Katy Ripp (00:21:36) –  Know, little body. Correct.

Kaitlin Payne (00:21:37) –  That’s the thing. So they were preparing us for about a 15 hour surgery. Wow. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:21:45) –  That’s a long time for anesthesia.

Kaitlin Payne (00:21:47) –  Right, right. That’s the thing. That was probably one of the hardest things was her getting her down for procedures and getting in. My. So, mind you, my husband had to keep working. Yeah, a lot of the days, because we needed the insurance. Yes, that’s the main. My husband’s job and my husband are the main reason that we are not in medical debt right now. Yeah, because it’s crazy. It’s astronomical. It’s whatever. So he could come to as many procedures as he got. Like obviously he was there for the big surgery and he’s there for them most of the chemo and things like that. But these little procedures, my dad would come with me and my mom and or whoever could make it down.

Kaitlin Payne (00:22:33) –  Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:22:34) –  Were you working at the time? Yes.

Kaitlin Payne (00:22:36) –  I worked at College Town in Sun Prairie. They were like, go do what you need to do, you know? Yes. I had an amazing boss. Still love him to this day. Him and his wife and their family. And I work for the owners of College Town. Right now. That’s where I work for. Okay, so but yes, like, they were like an a bunch of people donated their vacation hours and for me and they never once were like, nope, you’re gonna lose your job over this or anything like that. So it was that was the most kind of comforting thing at the time. And they also put on a benefit for us. Yeah. At a little, you know, golf outing and some of the greatest people I’ve ever met. The generosity in their hearts is crazy. But all these procedures, obviously this surgery was a really big one, right? Yeah. So we all waited in the hospital room together, like waiting in the waiting room.

Kaitlin Payne (00:23:27) –  They had like a designated area, which was nice. And every like 2 or 3 hours you kind of got an update from the nurse still working in here. So we just color. We got like those swear word notebooks. Yeah. So like we’re just coloring there. You know me. Both sets of parents, my siblings. In and out, you know, just waiting for time to pass. We got so a couple. So this tattoo, we got little tattoos made of it.

Katy Ripp (00:23:58) –  On.

Kaitlin Payne (00:23:59) –  Etsy. Oh, fun. So we put one on her. Oh, and then all the kids wore them. And you know, my dad put one on and I put one on. You know, it was funny. We tried to, like, make light of the situation because. What are you supposed to do? What are you supposed to do when your child is in some other room being operated on? I mean, obviously these surgeons are 1 in 1,000,000.

Katy Ripp (00:24:21) –  They are great. Yes. Thank God for them.

Kaitlin Payne (00:24:24) –  Seriously? Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:24:25) –  Like. And the nurses. Correct. Like, I always think anytime you get into these big things, like the nurses are just like in the shadows, right? But they are the people that do the things. Correct. So everything. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:24:38) –  So you know, they get they’re like, oh I think we got, you know, most of it. But there is some stuff that is, you know, right there on the liver and, you know, was.

Katy Ripp (00:24:49) –  It attached to the liver. Yes.

Kaitlin Payne (00:24:51) –  It was like right in but he’s like there’s some veins and stuff that I can’t clip around which whatever if you got, you know, some of it. And then. So she ended up post-op with it’s called a Kyle leak, which is where some of the stuff leaking out of your vial in there, I don’t know. Anyways, so that was kind of a setback because it prevented a lot of stuff from happening, which it pushed back everything. So she had to get a stem cell transplant as well.

Kaitlin Payne (00:25:21) –  Oh, so which like, I wish you could have seen her during all these things because she had a phone in her hand, sunglasses on, like just sitting there chilling, like she was like, quote unquote, the perfect child in the hospital. Like, I mean, yes, she was fussy about something like. That’s normal, right? Like sleeping basically in a cage. So she literally we had like a bedside cot that we bought at Cabela’s, and she slept with me in there because they won’t give you a bed.

Katy Ripp (00:25:57) –  Oh, okay. Because that’s my next question is like, did you stay there with her 24 hours a day?

Kaitlin Payne (00:26:03) –  Yes. And mind you, there’s other people in the hospital who are going through those who have four other kids, three other kids that I cannot imagine. Splitting your time. Yeah. I can’t yeah. Like, even when Tyler had to go to work and then he would be right back. And that’s what it was like. What do you do? What do you like?

Katy Ripp (00:26:20) –  How do you go and teach? Correct.

Katy Ripp (00:26:22) –  And how do you. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, you do what you have to do.

Kaitlin Payne (00:26:25) –  It’s wild. You put one foot in front of the other. Yeah. And and.

Katy Ripp (00:26:28) –  They do.

Kaitlin Payne (00:26:28) –  To move on.

Katy Ripp (00:26:29) –  Right. Like that’s not your I mean, it’s awful no matter what. And like you were saying before, like comparing your tragedy to somebody else’s, like, yes, everybody’s just doing the best they can. Yes. So it doesn’t really matter 1,000%.

Kaitlin Payne (00:26:44) –  Yeah. And so the stem cell transplant, she, you know, harvested the stem cells, you know, did the transplant. She got pretty sick with it.

Katy Ripp (00:26:58) –  The stem cell. Yes. Yeah. How far along into this process are you now? Because she was 11 months at the time of diagnosis.

Kaitlin Payne (00:27:06) –  This is about halfway through. This is like January or February.

Katy Ripp (00:27:10) –  Okay, okay. And she’s living in the hospital.

Kaitlin Payne (00:27:13) –  Oh, pretty much where we’ve been. There.

Katy Ripp (00:27:15) –  You’ve not been home? She’s not been home.

Katy Ripp (00:27:17) –  Well, so.

Kaitlin Payne (00:27:18) –  Every time we had chemo would be in the hospital for like two weeks. Oh my God. Then we come. Yes. Because your counts, you know, go really low these infections. And you know, what do you do. So I mean, we were in and out. And then if she gets fever, that’s different protocol. Yeah. So many visits to the E.R.. What do we do? How she has infection. So. Or placing the port in her chest. She always had a she wore like a band thing. You’ll see in a bunch of my pictures. That was she had a port place because of chemo and things like that and obviously like bathing, you know, we had a home health nurse came kind of every day. But then I learned how to do it. So I would give her shots at home. I would give her fluids when she was, you know, sleeping in her car at a pump and everything, which is it’s cracks me up because it was like I’m a regular person.

Katy Ripp (00:28:12) –  Like. Like I’m not a fucking nurse. I have a.

Kaitlin Payne (00:28:16) –  Degree in business.

Katy Ripp (00:28:17) –  Yeah, right. Just a little bit different mind. And I’m like, just.

Kaitlin Payne (00:28:22) –  Poke her in. Like they’re like, yeah, this is like, wait, what? Awesome. Okay. Like, well, what do you do?

Katy Ripp (00:28:29) –  You just do what you do. What you have to do. Do what you have to do. Are you still this time, like feeling? Yeah. We got this licked. We’re still good.

Kaitlin Payne (00:28:38) –  That when she went in the ICU, I.

Katy Ripp (00:28:41) –  Was like, with the stem cell?

Kaitlin Payne (00:28:43) –  Yes. Yeah. I’m like, what is happening? Like. And I was like, don’t go there. Yeah, don’t go there. Just don’t go there. Because then you don’t have to go there. Yeah. Right. If you don’t go there, you’re not there. So I’m like, here you go. Obviously she gets out of the ICU. We kind of get her back up and they’re like, okay, you know, we can go home.

Kaitlin Payne (00:29:06) –  Okay, so we’re home. Kind of. She starts acting funny in this as. So she passed on May 7th a couple weeks. She kind of started throwing up and I was like, what is going on? Because they were like, we’re not going to do anything for a while. Like, you guys give her a break. Yes. Yeah, we need a break. Have some time at home.

Katy Ripp (00:29:25) –  After the sun. So was it fairly like she was still sick, but March. Yes, but it was hopeful.

Kaitlin Payne (00:29:32) –  Yes. Because they were like, okay, we’ll come back at it with this.

Katy Ripp (00:29:35) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:29:36) –  So we get home and she’s and obviously like I said dates and things are a little fuzzy because who the fuck wants to remember that shit?

Katy Ripp (00:29:45) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:29:46) –  Right around April I want to say it was mid April or late April. She started like throwing up. It must have been late April, throwing up. And I think it’s just a two weeks before she died, mind you.

Kaitlin Payne (00:30:02) –  Two weeks. Okay. Yeah. I’m like, something just isn’t right. And then my husband and I were like, what is this? So we felt something on her neck and I immediately obviously called there, like, okay, scan tomorrow, whatever. So and that obviously took another week, you know what I’m saying? Like it’s like I think she started throwing up. And then was the week after we noticed that she was.

Katy Ripp (00:30:28) –  Oh, okay.

Kaitlin Payne (00:30:29) –  Having like a, you know, and it was that her test was on a Tuesday I remember. Or it was on a Wednesday. Either way they put you in a room and they say, well, you know, we’ll be right there. So then Tyler and I are sitting together. Is she with you know. She was with our parents okay. In the room and doctor captain love him. He was like, this is not what we wanted. The tumor has grown. Its all over her spine into, you know, up here it’s growing fast and it’s everywhere.

Katy Ripp (00:31:08) –  Oh my God.

Kaitlin Payne (00:31:10) –  And at that time, you know, you’re my brain just went blank. Because what? Like, I was just like, we did all the things, you know what I mean? And I think I remember just not saying anything. Like I was like, we can try radiation. And at this point I’m going, what? I don’t want her to deal with this bullshit anymore, this prodding and, you know, all that stuff. So when we at this point, we’re both, like, sobbing. You know he’s like, just take some time to think about it.

Katy Ripp (00:31:46) –  And think about what.

Kaitlin Payne (00:31:47) –  Right. That’s the thing. Like if you want to do radiation or what. Or basically let her go.

Katy Ripp (00:31:53) –  Yeah. Oh did they say it like that? No, not.

Kaitlin Payne (00:31:57) –  He’s just like.

Katy Ripp (00:31:58) –  Take some time.

Kaitlin Payne (00:31:59) –  To correct like with the news that you had.

Katy Ripp (00:32:02) –  Right. It’s like yeah, just let it sink in then like. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:32:07) –  You know, like. And at that point it’s like, what do you like? And we looked at doctors in New York.

Kaitlin Payne (00:32:16) –  Oh, she looked at the Saint Jude place. We looked at, and I talked to so many people about this because I was like, they were like, you have a state of the art children’s hospital in your backyard.

Katy Ripp (00:32:30) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:32:30) –  So it was there like, this is the protocol for people, kids.

Katy Ripp (00:32:35) –  Looking for this, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:32:37) –  This is the protocol for kids with cancer. So your plan probably isn’t going to change. In Michigan, they also had a specialist. And you know what I mean. Like yeah. So we were like okay. Like what? You know what I mean. And so we walk, which felt like a mile. back to our room. We go inside and then obviously our family sees us just bawling. And then I just go and lay in this metal cage crib thing. And at this point, like, Riley is 18 months, she’s she looks at me and she’s crying and she goes, sign’s all done.

Katy Ripp (00:33:16) –  Oh my God.

Kaitlin Payne (00:33:17) –  And so I was like, that’s when it like really hit me.

Kaitlin Payne (00:33:21) –  Like she like us doing all of this stuff for her, you know. What is this? What are you know, yes, we’ve done this for the last eight months or whatever.

Katy Ripp (00:33:32) –  Yeah. Half of her life. Right. So kind of. And right.

Kaitlin Payne (00:33:36) –  Poke at her and prodded her suck things in her nose, you know? Yeah. All these things, and it’s still not working. So obviously we everyone is just, you know, screaming, crying at this point. My parents and Tyler’s parents are like, well, what do what do you guys want to do? Because we’ll drive her to anywhere. And then that’s when we had the conversation of, there’s probably not going to be enough time for you guys to get anywhere.

Katy Ripp (00:34:08) –  Did they give you any hope?

Kaitlin Payne (00:34:09) –  I mean, not enough, but not in a bad way. Yeah. Do you know what I’m saying? And I straight up asked. They all have children. A bunch of them do. What would you do for your child? And obviously he’s like, I would make them feel as comfortable as possible.

Kaitlin Payne (00:34:26) –  So that’s.

Katy Ripp (00:34:27) –  When they know the most.

Kaitlin Payne (00:34:29) –  Correct. Yeah. Like I’m not an expert in this. I don’t know what her body is doing. And clearly she’s signing all done at that point. What do you.

Katy Ripp (00:34:41) –  Guess the only way they can communicate?

Kaitlin Payne (00:34:43) –  That was kind of my sign. And she could still talk to. But like at this point she is tired. That girl is tired, right? So they were like, grace can’t get you home until Monday.

Katy Ripp (00:34:59) –  I grace the hospice. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:35:01) –  So they’re like, okay, we can move you to a bigger room. We’ll get you a bed. So literally, I laid in the bed with her for probably three days straight, took one, you know, took a break, but everyone was like, you need to go, you know, take a walk a little bit. So the most I was probably away from her was like maybe ten minutes. But I also wanted, like, you know, our parents to kind of have their whatever, you know, moment with her and whatnot.

Kaitlin Payne (00:35:36) –  And I’m so thankful that she did this. And I know she did this on purpose on Monday when we were supposed to go home. The doctor said, I think it’s going to happen very soon.

Katy Ripp (00:35:48) –  Wow.

Kaitlin Payne (00:35:49) –  So that conversation we had with the doctors was on a Friday. She passed on Monday around 5:00.

Katy Ripp (00:35:56) –  Wow.

Kaitlin Payne (00:35:56) –  So the fact that they said it could be, you know, three weeks, it could be, you know.

Katy Ripp (00:36:04) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:36:05) –  And walking into somewhere with your child and then leaving without them is probably one of the worst feelings in the entire world, if not the worst. Yeah, it was hard, but then it was kind of like you pretended that you didn’t go through it. So like, we all came to our condo in Windsor and I kind of just I went, took a shower, and I was also the next weekend was Mother’s Day. Like, I don’t think it really kicked in yet, you know what I’m saying? Like, everyone was just, do you wanna play a game? Like we sat there like.

Katy Ripp (00:36:50) –  Well, what.

Kaitlin Payne (00:36:51) –  Do you do? Right? That’s the thing.

Katy Ripp (00:36:52) –  Physically. What do.

Kaitlin Payne (00:36:53) –  You do? Think anyone knew.

Katy Ripp (00:36:56) –  What.

Kaitlin Payne (00:36:57) –  To say or to do? And I kind of was just like, what the fuck is going on? Like, it’s like somebody wake me up from this nightmare because, like, what is going on? You know, it was just like this out of body kind of experience because I remember taking a shower and I literally like. Obviously we were at the hospital, so we got some packages and I had ordered like a I think it was like a little necklace that said, like Riley or whatever. And I was like, okay, so like, what the fuck do I do with this necklace? Like, what do I do? You know, I mean, like, you’re all kind of just like, okay, let’s order pizza. Like. So we had someone brought pizza and I think we were just like, okay, like, go to bed now, like.

Kaitlin Payne (00:37:44) –  And then to be honest with you, the next probably a couple of months is a huge blur. Like, I don’t really remember her funeral like, at all. Like at all.

Katy Ripp (00:38:00) –  What kind of funeral did you have.

Kaitlin Payne (00:38:02) –  At the Waunakee?

Katy Ripp (00:38:03) –  Did you have, like, a traditional Catholic funeral? Yeah, which I.

Kaitlin Payne (00:38:08) –  Remember some of the wake because of shit that people.

Katy Ripp (00:38:13) –  Said. Oh, well, there could be a coffee table books for that.

Kaitlin Payne (00:38:16) –  That’s the thing. Like, good luck tomorrow. So good luck tomorrow. I was like, wait, what? And like. And at that point, like, and we know a lot of people, let’s just be honest. Like our family, we know a lot of people. So the line was like, yeah, out the door and you know what I mean? And like, it’s a fucking kid’s wake.

Katy Ripp (00:38:36) –  Like it’s also a child, right? So anybody that was even, like, contemplating not coming is coming. Correct. Right.

Katy Ripp (00:38:43) –  Like that’s just it’s not like, oh, they lived a really good long life, right? Like they don’t need me. There was a different story for that.

Kaitlin Payne (00:38:52) –  And you know, you sit in this line, right? You sit in this line and who.

Katy Ripp (00:38:59) –  Is all in the line with you?

Kaitlin Payne (00:39:01) –  There was it was a lot of us. Yeah, obviously me, Tyler, I parents, his parents and then our siblings, they could be in a line if they wanted to. And I think they were, because, like, we had so much support from literally anyone and everyone. Like, I think I remember my sisters like the PTO at Sunset Ridge, like gave so much stuff to Riley and you know, like that’s what you do when you go through things like this. Like your village shows up for you. And ours was obviously the best. But, you know, at some point you’re bawling because other people are bawling in your some people are fine and like, you’re laughing and like saying thanks for coming.

Kaitlin Payne (00:39:44) –  Like I love you so much. And then other people are saying, good luck tomorrow at the funeral. Like what? Like what is going on?

Katy Ripp (00:39:51) –  Please don’t.

Kaitlin Payne (00:39:52) –  Or like, everything happens for a reason. And you know that stuff which, like, this is what I’ve learned. You take nothing personal. No, I take nothing personal anymore. And I don’t expect anything literally from anyone. Yeah, like you just can’t. Yeah. Like this journey that I’m on and this one life that I have. People can worry about themselves and can say things that’s on them, not on me. But it just. It’s funny to me when I’m like.

Katy Ripp (00:40:25) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:40:25) –  What is going on? You know what I mean? And, and I specifically remember at the funeral being really pissed off, like I was mad. I’m still in this.

Katy Ripp (00:40:36) –  Anger stage, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:40:37) –  I am beyond pissed. Like, what the fuck are we doing here? Like, I am so mad. And someone was like, you don’t have to be so stoic all the time.

Kaitlin Payne (00:40:47) –  You can eat, right? Fuck me. You figure I was just like, I kind of, like, stared and then just walked away because I was like, what is?

Katy Ripp (00:40:56) –  Yeah, like, why would you say.

Kaitlin Payne (00:40:57) –  That to someone? But again.

Katy Ripp (00:40:59) –  Yeah, not.

Kaitlin Payne (00:41:00) –  My stuff has taught me my life before is out the window. And that’s what kind of some people have to understand. Like I am not that the same person. When you go through things like that, you are not the same person. You think you can hurt me. It’s honestly laughable.

Katy Ripp (00:41:17) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:41:17) –  And trust me. Therapy. Go to.

Katy Ripp (00:41:20) –  Therapy. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:41:21) –  Best therapist ever. She was like, you have nothing to do with other people’s thoughts or opinions or anything. And I was like, ding ding. Yeah, okay, great. Great. Thank you for freeing me.

Katy Ripp (00:41:35) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:41:35) –  From doing, you know, all this stuff. And it’s even like a big thing was like, you know, it’s a casual conversation.

Kaitlin Payne (00:41:42) –  How many kids do you have?

Katy Ripp (00:41:43) –  Oh.

Kaitlin Payne (00:41:44) –  When you go somewhere and some people would say, I’m a homebody. I love my home time with my kids, but I also like go to these events. I go a lot of places for work. Yeah. And I’m like, do you say you have three kids? And then do you say like, oh yeah, one of them died, like, you know, like so casual, but that’s my life. Yeah, so I don’t like that.

Katy Ripp (00:42:09) –  Are you going to ask me how I am? And would you like the long story or just. I’m fine. Right? Right, right. That’s what you’re going to get is.

Kaitlin Payne (00:42:18) –  And I have, you know, and I’m like, oh, well. Oh, I thought you only said you only had two kids. I said, well, you know, when you think you’re not going to like get into it or whatever and then but like I’ll always like I’m not going to not say her name.

Kaitlin Payne (00:42:33) –  I just say like, oh yeah, our daughter passed away six years ago from cancer and they were like, oh my God. You know, they and I’m like, yeah, well, you know, we’ve raised a ton of money for pediatric cancer research. So she’s still here with us and you know. Yeah, helping us pave the way for more research and to get more kids surviving.

Katy Ripp (00:42:58) –  Yeah. So they don’t have to do that so they don’t have to answer your question. Correct. And want to cry for me. Right? Right.

Kaitlin Payne (00:43:05) –  Which is like she’s like their uncomfortableness has nothing to do with you. So you say whatever you want to say.

Katy Ripp (00:43:14) –  Yep. And like it is not your responsibility to make sure that person feels okay. Correct? Period. Correct. With anything? Yes. Anything anymore? Literally. I mean, it’s just not our responsibility as humans to make ourselves uncomfortable, to make somebody else feel comfortable. Yes. I mean, I might get that tattooed.

Kaitlin Payne (00:43:36) –  Literally real right on my forehead.

Kaitlin Payne (00:43:39) –  Excuse me.

Katy Ripp (00:43:40) –  Hello? I can.

Kaitlin Payne (00:43:41) –  See it in the.

Katy Ripp (00:43:41) –  Mirror. Dad. I’d love for you to tell me about Riley. Tell me. Like I know she would. Like every picture I’ve ever seen. She’s got this, like, amazing smile. Twinkle in her eye. Like, tell me about her. Like, tell me about any moments that, like, her humor came through or anything. I’d love to hear all of them. But, you know, we only have so much time, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:44:06) –  She was just spoiled, like girly girl of all things. Like, obviously, like I said, with my sister’s boys, like, they. Oh my gosh, there’s the pictures of she’s kissing them and, you know, hugging them. And she would just say their names all day. And she has this like at the end of her tone of voice, it would always be higher. Heidi, Maddie and then Kai. Because Cain’s youngest. And he’s just. Kai. Yeah, but they all called her baby babe when I was pregnant with her, so.

Kaitlin Payne (00:44:42) –  And they would all, you know, the littlest Kai. He which he was five at the time when she was born. He would, you know, feel my belly when she kicked. And, you know, Riley was always like a bright light. You know what I’m saying? And they she loved them so much. She loved literally anyone that she met. They were like, oh, my gosh. Like, blowing kisses to the doctors on their rounds, going in the hospital. She would love riding the the little buggy things, and she would wave to everyone and just say hi like, you know, hi. And she would. Doc McStuffins was bigger, so she had the doctor outfit, so she would dress up for specifically this one doctor Nick, he was a resident at the time, and he would come in and she’d put her doctor coat on. And, you know, it’s just she kind of made everything better. You know what I mean? She wasn’t like if you saw her.

Kaitlin Payne (00:45:46) –  And obviously, besides the bald head, you wouldn’t be able to tell that she was sick. Yeah, she. And almost everyone was like, oh, my God, she’s afraid of hospital. No. He literally got treated like a queen at the hospital.

Katy Ripp (00:45:59) –  And she also grew up there and, like, it was like a major part of her. Correct. You know, development. Right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:46:06) –  Especially at that time when she started talking and when she started, you know what I mean? Like she played with the toys in her hospital room. We literally got like this, like, big tent. And she would sit in and think, she’s cool, but all always hooked up. Yeah, she had a wig, a princess wig that she wore, which is made out of yarn. It’s actually a company and it’s really cool. But she would That’s and really she.

Katy Ripp (00:46:31) –  Also knew no different. Right.

Kaitlin Payne (00:46:32) –  That’s the thing. Yeah. And we would still get to go to some things like her cousins games and things like that.

Kaitlin Payne (00:46:39) –  But obviously she you know the hospital was not a place of danger for her. Yeah it was a place okay I’m getting here we go. Everybody’s coming into my room. And you know everybody’s.

Katy Ripp (00:46:53) –  Doting on me and loving on.

Kaitlin Payne (00:46:55) –  Me. Yeah, yeah. And you know, obviously too was balloons. And, you know, every time she went, you know, so it was not a place of fear for her. Yeah. Let’s just say that. Well now I can walk in there. Fine. But like before, it definitely was a place of I don’t want to be here. What am I doing here? You know, things like that. But yeah, she would. Oh, she dance all the time. And she was literally so happy. Yeah, she. That’s just what you do. Aren’t you great sleeper. Loved sleeping. She loved cuddling. Would give anyone a hug or a kiss or, you know, she’s. It was literally one of the happiest babies.

Katy Ripp (00:47:35) –  Oh that’s amazing.

Katy Ripp (00:47:36) –  I mean, after all she went through. Right. But, like, right. We know she didn’t. Right. Like, we know what that looks like and what it feels like. I mean, maybe not what it feels like, but like, from a, you know, once removed, we know what that looks like and how sad it can be and whatever. But she really had no idea, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:47:54) –  No. And she, like, could have been the crappiest baby and everyone would have been fine with it.

Katy Ripp (00:47:59) –  Right? Except she wasn’t correct. Yeah. You touched on this a little bit before about like how much it’s changed you.

Katy Ripp (00:48:06) –  As a person.

Katy Ripp (00:48:07) –  Yeah. Tell me about that. I’m just so fascinated by. Well, again, this is I’m sure that nobody likes to talk to you about it. Right? Like, I mean, I’m sure that people that are really close to you like. Right? Your family and friends that are really close and, you know, been on this journey with you, that’s a different story, right? But of course, like when you say we lost our daughter to cancer and people are like, oh, I think I need another drink.

Katy Ripp (00:48:37) –  I hear somebody’s calling or yeah, what? Tell me about that. Because again, it’s that comfort discomfort.

Kaitlin Payne (00:48:44) –  So right now like and this might sound bad, but like things that used to bug me don’t I don’t get bugged by anything anymore. I don’t. I take nothing personal. Nothing like when you if you be like, oh, like I think like you probably need to like, do a little work, like, you know what I mean? Or like, maybe like what? Like. No. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for your opinion. Right. Yeah I don’t whatever you say to me is not obvious if it’s like work or something like that. Yes I’m going to care and like put that in my thing and like try to be better with XYZ, I don’t know. And it kind of was how I raised my kids. Now I’m okay. Have your feelings go through them where we’ll be gone. Yeah. Like you go sit in those feelings. I would be like. So if someone was, you know, like, let’s stop crying.

Kaitlin Payne (00:49:39) –  Like you’re ruining it. Like, no, like we’re just. You’re gonna have the day that you’re gonna have. I’m in charge of my own happiness. And so are you. Right. And this is something I wholeheartedly believe is make your own sunshine wherever you go. You have to every day that we wake up and put one foot in front of the other and literally just get dressed is a choice some days, don’t get me wrong. Some days, like the day she passed is very hard. Like getting out of bed as hard. Just having to function to be a mom to Lincoln cam. Hard is very hard that day. Do we do it? Yes we do. Yeah. You have to show up for your kids because obviously they deserve that. And they’re young enough right now. They have no clue. They have no clue. They love talking about their sister. Yeah. They love seeing pictures of her. That’s Riley mom, I said. Yep. Yes it is. You know, things like that.

Kaitlin Payne (00:50:39) –  But people would understand if I didn’t make the choice to get out of bed. Yeah, but that’s my choice. This is how I’m choosing to live my life. Because she didn’t have a choice, right? She didn’t have a choice. She doesn’t get to do this. And, you know, there are so many people in our lives that we know that they don’t have a choice. Like my mom. Yeah. She thought so many times. And, you know. So this is my choice to wake up in the morning and make the best out of my day. Because what else are you going to do?

Katy Ripp (00:51:14) –  Yeah. What else? Choice. Right. Great. I mean, follow her, right? I suppose that’s a choice, right? Like, I suppose that crosses people’s mind, right? Did it cross.

Kaitlin Payne (00:51:25) –  Yours? Yes. Multiple times. And thank God for my husband because we kind of obviously were our own. And everybody goes through things differently, right? Yeah. You go through different things and it seemed like everything reminded.

Kaitlin Payne (00:51:43) –  me of her. So in our house, like I literally put a bed where her crib was and like, slept there. And then we kind of decided, we can’t live here anymore, like we can. I just there’s too much I can’t live here anymore. So my dad, being the super human that he is, like redid three of the bathrooms, like, you know, kind of whipped it into shape. And we sold it really fast for a good price. Then we moved in with my parents and figured out, okay, yeah, what are we going to do? Yeah. Like, what are we going to do? And obviously, like I said, at that point you don’t really want to live. What’s the point. Like your kid just died.

Katy Ripp (00:52:28) –  And you’re only.

Kaitlin Payne (00:52:29) –  Cracked. So I’m like on top of it. The whole Mother’s Day thing, it was like a seemed like oh to me like personal like double whammy like.

Katy Ripp (00:52:38) –  Five days later or something. Yeah. Oh.

Kaitlin Payne (00:52:42) –  Yeah. And I was like what is going on. You know what I mean. Like why. And then we knew obviously me and my husband were like we wanted to have more kids. And I talked to kind of because I was kind of a freak about this. I was like talking to the doctors. I’m like, what are the chances of my next kid having this? Yeah. Because otherwise, like, no. Yeah. And. Right. So then I talked to Doctor Diamond and she was like, telling me about other people’s stories about how they’ve gone on to have more kids and their kids are healthy and beautiful and fine. And she said, and you are going to have more kids who are healthy and beautiful and grow up to be old and, you know, things like that. So which that gave me a lot of hope. And, you know, and with everything that they don’t know about it, like I still I mean, that is my biggest fear obviously to this day of like and there is which again therapy This amount of guilt that I carried around with did I give this to her do like and it still is a nightmare.

Kaitlin Payne (00:53:53) –  I mean wise, but you have to walk yourself out of that because it’s a very, very dark corner. Like I grew her inside of me. What did I do if she had that? Was she born with it? Did she have it in utero? Did she just get it when she would? They can’t tell me. Yeah. You can’t.

Katy Ripp (00:54:16) –  And when you have no answers, you have no answers.

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:19) –  The mind.

Katy Ripp (00:54:19) –  Fuck, yeah. It’s just like a constant, perpetual question, right? Correct. So tell me about your mom. Because when was that?

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:28) –  So Riley passed away.

Katy Ripp (00:54:31) –  It’s not enough to, like, lose your child, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:35) –  I lost my child, my grandma and my mom three years in a row.

Katy Ripp (00:54:40) –  Oh my God. All the same, like, around the same time. Spring.

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:44) –  My mom was in December.

Katy Ripp (00:54:45) –  Oh, yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:47) –  I mean, I.

Katy Ripp (00:54:47) –  Remember specifically when I heard that your mom had cancer and I was like, used to like, which was, are you fucking serious?

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:56) –  June of 2018.

Kaitlin Payne (00:54:59) –  So Riley passed in May, that June. And then she got diagnosed in June.

Katy Ripp (00:55:04) –  Well, she’s sick, so I mean, she was probably breathing so hard that she didn’t fucking know, right?

Kaitlin Payne (00:55:10) –  That’s what they were thinking. So we literally were going up to the Dells. They do like the BCA for basketball. I don’t know The Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association or something does like a game because.

Katy Ripp (00:55:23) –  The coach.

Kaitlin Payne (00:55:23) –  Right. Not a basketball coach is a baseball coach.

Katy Ripp (00:55:26) –  But yeah that’s right.

Kaitlin Payne (00:55:27) –  But they were really strong on the back of their jerseys for the game for the like the all star game. And then one of the coaches wanted his money to go. He’s a local Waunakee coach now. He put Riley strong on the back of the shirts for us and, you know, donated the money. All goes to pediatric cancer awareness and stuff like that. We were literally on our way up to the Dells for this game, and my mom calls and says, and mind you, they’re coming to the game, too, because everybody’s, you know, going to be there for Ali.

Kaitlin Payne (00:56:05) –  She goes, So I have pancreatic cancer. And I was like, excuse me. In the car. I’m like, tush, stop the car, turn around. We’re going home. She’s like, no, you’re not. We’re going to the game. I’ll be up to my own. We’re going to the game. And I’m just sitting there like in my head again, what the fuck? Like what is going on? Like, this is a joke. You know, this is a joke, right? Like this is like what?

Katy Ripp (00:56:31) –  Yeah. Like what? The actual fuck.

Kaitlin Payne (00:56:34) –  And then they literally gave her 9 to 11 months. They were like, this is pancreatic cancer. It’s, you know, you don’t do surgery for that because it’s so the tumor or whatever where it goes.

Katy Ripp (00:56:47) –  It’s not it’s Super Bowl. Right? Yeah. Or if it is, it’s correct. Bad. Right.

Kaitlin Payne (00:56:52) –  You run the risk of, you know, whatever. Yeah. So thank God for the Carbon Cancer Center doctor Sam.

Kaitlin Payne (00:57:00) –  He got our mom prolonged until what cam was born in. Yeah. 21. So she died in December of 2020.

Katy Ripp (00:57:11) –  Oh, you were pregnant with cam.

Kaitlin Payne (00:57:13) –  Right after two night on, December 27th, and I found out probably the next week and that. So I found out that I had Covid and was pregnant on the same day, and we pushed back her funeral. Me and Tyler. So yeah, what a spin with that. But she got, you know, extra time because chemo went so good. And don’t get me wrong, there was times where she was like £80 and we were all like, okay, this is, this is it. And which, mind you, her struggles are obviously she’s an adult. We’re all like like, what is going on? What? You know what I mean? And she could, you know, tell us if she wasn’t feeling good and, you know, things like. And she did and all this, you know, time and that was like Covid.

Kaitlin Payne (00:58:02) –  So you couldn’t go to the hospital with her.

Katy Ripp (00:58:05) –  Yeah. Could you. Dad? No. Oh my God. Like, what? A different experience, right? Like, you could have had 30 people in in Riley’s room, right? And then she was alone. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (00:58:17) –  And she literally. And it doesn’t even make to me. I’m like, what? Just like a different type of heartbreak. Because obviously she’s been through so much. She could have just said no. Like, I’m just going to use this time that I have, like, we got to go to the beach, we got to go to Florida. We took a big family vacation in the fall of 2018, and that’s what she wanted. She wanted to go to the beach. That’s her favorite place. So we went to get a house on the beach, went to the beach, spent time together. Obviously that was Link’s first plane ride and, you know, things like that. But the whole Covid thing, I will say, like there was no like if she was sleeping, we didn’t know, like we told her to rest and like, hey, call me when you can.

Kaitlin Payne (00:59:06) –  And we had a couple of times that we were scared and it was like, I remember being Thanksgiving weekend and I was home with Linc. My husband went hunting and we were talking to the doctors and they’re like, I literally had to ask, how bad is this? Like, is she going to die in there alone? Or what are you saying? And they were like, well, it’s really it’s a close call. Like it’s she’s not doing well. And I remember being like, what the fuck? If she dies in there with no one, I will lose my shit, right? And thank God for my brother in law, Tim. So, you know, obviously she got through that, right. Thanksgiving. Now it’s Christmas. She’s in again. She’s got her just things with cancer like they put a stint in and it was like draining some fluid. But that was getting backed up. And you know, it was just getting really bad where she couldn’t keep anything down, you know, things like that.

Kaitlin Payne (01:00:02) –  He does what he does. Pulled some strings and talk about Tim. He gets a grace to come on Christmas Day. We picked her up from the hospital at 8 a.m. on Christmas morning. Brought her home. They were there later in the afternoon. She passed away December 27th at home. Yes. Surrounded by all of us. Which is what she wanted. And what’s the alternative. Alone.

Katy Ripp (01:00:34) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:00:35) –  Alone.

Katy Ripp (01:00:36) –  Like what. Right. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:00:39) –  Like which was completely different than obviously rally which I was like so so so freaking thankful that she passed away in the hospital. And I know she did that for me. I just know it. Yeah. My mom, I want we all wanted her home, and that’s where she wanted to. Which, you know, that doesn’t it doesn’t have those same kind of a.

Katy Ripp (01:00:59) –  Year and a half. Yes. Okay. Oh, that’s a lot. I mean, that was a long time because 9.

Kaitlin Payne (01:01:04) –  To 11 months and then.

Katy Ripp (01:01:05) –  Right. Because it sort of sounded like a death sentence.

Katy Ripp (01:01:07) –  Correct. Beginning. Right. Yeah. Right.

Kaitlin Payne (01:01:10) –  Well, let’s get this at bay.

Katy Ripp (01:01:11) –  Yeah. Let’s. Right. Let’s just make her comfortable. Let’s. Yeah. So that was a long time.

Kaitlin Payne (01:01:16) –  And she obviously did I’m pretty sure she did things that she didn’t want to do. If it was just her and my dad. I think she would have been like, Dennis. Like I’m good. I’ve fought so many other things. Yeah, like I’m good, but we like, I just had Lincoln in June of 2019 and, you know, she kept going. She kept my dad would like, carry her like she used a walker, you know what I mean? She did things that she necessarily don’t think. In her heart of hearts was like, oh, my God. Like, she was so tired. But she knew that she wanted to be around for us. I mean, selfishly, I wanted her around.

Katy Ripp (01:01:57) –  To, you know.

Kaitlin Payne (01:01:58) –  Meet my kid, like, you know what I mean? And it kind of popped into my head the other day and it made me really sad, is my mom does not have a picture with my kids all in the same picture with Riley.

Katy Ripp (01:02:10) –  Oh, like they’re all not all three together. Yeah. Or even cute.

Kaitlin Payne (01:02:14) –  Yeah, like she especially she has a picture with Lincoln. Nothing with cam, but it’s not even like where the boys can hold Riley in a picture frame or hold it on in a picture frame, but like, yeah, that will never happen. And I was like, oh, that’s really messed up. Yeah. Like, so how old.

Katy Ripp (01:02:35) –  Is your mom?

Kaitlin Payne (01:02:36) –  She was 64.

Katy Ripp (01:02:39) –  Early 60s.

Kaitlin Payne (01:02:40) –  Yes. Well, my dad just turned 70 and choose porn and 666 maybe. Yes.

Katy Ripp (01:02:48) –  5056.

Kaitlin Payne (01:02:49) –  Yeah. Yes. 56. Yeah, yeah. You’re right. So. Yeah. And apparently like breast cancer and pancreatic are linked.

Katy Ripp (01:02:56) –  Oh I didn’t know what.

Kaitlin Payne (01:02:57) –  Yeah I didn’t either until, you know, this whole shitstorm.

Katy Ripp (01:03:01) –  I’m not sure if you know that Dahl’s dad passed away when he was just 59. And, like, I know how bad.

Katy Ripp (01:03:08) –  That fucked up.

Katy Ripp (01:03:09) –  Our family, right? Like, not in a, like, grief is just so not linear.

Katy Ripp (01:03:16) –  No, not at all. And time is not linear. And grief makes people do fucked up things. Grief is like probably the most under researched. I don’t like until you go through grief. I don’t know that there’s really any way to explain it or explain the behaviors around it and not to compare. But this just wasn’t your mom, right? This is also a child. So like mom child and then grandma.

Kaitlin Payne (01:03:50) –  Yeah, well, Graham was in between.

Katy Ripp (01:03:53) –  Oh, grandma was in between. Yes. Okay. And that was your mom’s mom 19.

Kaitlin Payne (01:03:57) –  Yeah. Yeah. Which is the matriarch of. Yes, the Simon family. Yeah. What, like we go.

Katy Ripp (01:04:05) –  That’s a little bit more acceptable. Correct? All right. Like it seems more acceptable. Should there be varying degrees of death and acceptance? Maybe not. Who knows, but it’s your.

Kaitlin Payne (01:04:15) –  Grandma, so it makes sense.

Katy Ripp (01:04:16) –  Well, it makes sense. Like. Like when you came on here. It’s just like you should not outlive your children, right? Like, that’s just.

Katy Ripp (01:04:23) –  It’s not the order of things. Correct. So even your mom. Right. Like, certainly you don’t outlive your grandchildren. Yeah. right. So like that kind of right. It’s just, I mean, death is very.

Katy Ripp (01:04:35) –  Fickle anyway.

Katy Ripp (01:04:36) –  And we all know we’re going to die. Or we should. Yeah, because we do. Right. But that kind of like that kind of grief. Does it compound?

Kaitlin Payne (01:04:46) –  I mean, I feel like it did because there’s definitely.

Katy Ripp (01:04:50) –  I mean, like you have like a front row seat to this. So I’m very curious if you think it was.

Kaitlin Payne (01:04:56) –  I mean, my grandmas, I think it was obviously like things made sense. She was very old. She lived a great life. We all got to go in and say goodbye to her.

Katy Ripp (01:05:08) –  My grandchildren got.

Katy Ripp (01:05:10) –  To say goodbye. Correct. Yeah. And great grandchildren.

Kaitlin Payne (01:05:12) –  Yes. Yeah. Everybody. And what she told me and I literally like, have a video of this because one of my cousins took a video.

Kaitlin Payne (01:05:19) –  She’s like, I’m sorry that you had to be so strong right now. And she always called me Caitlin. She never call me Kate. I’m so sorry what you had to go through and how strong you had to be when you’re doing it. I was like, grandma, don’t say that right now. I said, I just I love you and, you know, whatever. I said something about eating Bologna sandwiches with her at her pool, whatever. Whatever. But that just shows you what kind of grandma she was and what kind of person she was always thinking about everyone else. But like that stretch. If I didn’t get pregnant so fast with Lincoln, I think it was like the second try.

Katy Ripp (01:05:58) –  Which is interesting because it took you a year. So yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:06:01) –  That’s why I was like, this is nuts. Like how? And honestly, everybody talks about oh yeah, that being your rainbow baby. And obviously you never replace, you know, people who ever even think about saying that about, oh, you shouldn’t have a baby to replace.

Kaitlin Payne (01:06:15) –  I mean, like, no, you don’t even know what you’re talking about. He probably saved my life in more ways than one. And now he’s a five year old and it’s, you know, crazy. Yeah. To think like. And he’s just my kid that basically saved my life. Which and my other reason was like, my family has gone through so much shit. Yeah. And so much stuff. I would never do that to them.

Katy Ripp (01:06:39) –  Oh yeah. Like in.

Kaitlin Payne (01:06:40) –  My brain, I.

Katy Ripp (01:06:41) –  Was nice. That’s nice of you.

Kaitlin Payne (01:06:43) –  Like like, no, I could never you know what I mean?

Katy Ripp (01:06:46) –  But I.

Kaitlin Payne (01:06:47) –  I remember like that summer one memory specific. We were all out at Sport Bowl for some stupid reason, right? Yeah, yeah. And I just I think it was weird because you just get treated differently after your kid dies, whether you like it or not. Right. Yeah. And I came home and I was crying, and she’s like, what’s wrong? And I was like, I want to be normal.

Kaitlin Payne (01:07:13) –  I just want to be normal. And she was like, I know what, that’s not the plate you were given. Your grandma said that? No. My mom. Oh, your.

Katy Ripp (01:07:21) –  Mom? Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:07:22) –  She knows that’s not your reality. Yeah. So it’s okay to cry about it.

Katy Ripp (01:07:29) –  But say goodbye, sister. Right. Like those days are over. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:07:34) –  And I think she that did, you know, do the same. Like she got cancer. Then her kid got cancer. Then her grandkid got. You know what I’m saying? And we know what tragedy is in our big family, right? We do. We just. But when you really say you never think it will happen to you, you don’t. I can never in a million years did I picture my life like this when I met Tyler in Minnesota. Like, oh, yeah, you know me together, and we’re gonna go through all this fucked up shit.

Katy Ripp (01:08:06) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:08:07) –  No, not at all.

Katy Ripp (01:08:08) –  Well, no.

Katy Ripp (01:08:09) –  You think it’s going to be like sunshine and rainbows for your entire life, right? Yeah. And, I mean, I’m older than you, and you will get this, or you’re already at this point, like, you don’t get to 45 or apparently.

Katy Ripp (01:08:19) –  35.

Katy Ripp (01:08:20) –  Unscathed, right? Right. Like, if you do, something is coming. You’re like, either in it, right? You’re about to be in it or you just got through it. There is just nothing. Life just doesn’t go that way. And until you have the tools to deal with it, it’s a real bitch. Correct. I want to ask you about Tyler. Yeah, like, how do you do that together? How do you I this is going to sound really like. And maybe it’s TMI and you want to cut it. That’s totally fine. But, like, how do you have sex again to make another baby? Great, right? Like, how do you get to a point where you’re not, like, angry and or I’m assuming at some point, like, maybe you blamed each other or maybe you never got there.

Katy Ripp (01:09:04) –  You know, but I think that is one thing that people really struggle with in marriage, for sure. I can’t even imagine. I don’t know the statistic, but I would imagine it’s really high for breakups.

Kaitlin Payne (01:09:14) –  And yes, it is divorce rates for if you have a child who is fast are faster, very high.

Katy Ripp (01:09:19) –  Yeah. So I mean they’re high enough already but like.

Kaitlin Payne (01:09:23) –  Serious.

Katy Ripp (01:09:23) –  Probably astronomical.

Kaitlin Payne (01:09:25) –  No. So at first it was definitely like weird. But we really like were a forefront together. Yeah. We said like we also did therapy together okay. With it being separate too. Yeah. So and we kind of let each other be each other. Because if you don’t, if you’re trying like he’s really into outdoors, loves to hunt, you know, all that stuff, that’s your passion. You go do you. And that has I think helped us because then we’re more coherent when we’re both are humans first. You know what I’m saying? Like, you know, and obviously, yes, things change when you get married and what you give up, things you just do, that’s marriage.

Kaitlin Payne (01:10:10) –  But like we are. So now like you learn a really big lesson, like life is really short, obviously. And like you said, time is all you have. So what do you do with that? Time is literally the most valuable thing in the world. So if you want to go hunting and do that, perfect, Great. And that, I think, is kind of how we meshed together so well. And we the fact we let each other be each other unapologetically. Yeah. That’s the way love works. Yeah. It’s not. No, you can’t go there. Okay, let’s try to figure it out. No, you can’t go to a baseball game like. And he writes a long Facebook post about me, you know, thanking me every year for letting him coach.

Katy Ripp (01:10:59) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:11:00) –  We just figure it out because I know it makes him happy and it makes me happy seeing him happy and doing what he loves.

Katy Ripp (01:11:08) –  Which is.

Kaitlin Payne (01:11:08) –  Coaching. And I know he loves being a teacher.

Kaitlin Payne (01:11:12) –  Otherwise he wouldn’t like, let’s be honest. So and he knows that I would love to stay at home and just put on a movie and, you know, cuddle my kids and then go to bed.

Katy Ripp (01:11:24) –  It’s amazing.

Kaitlin Payne (01:11:25) –  It’s amazing. Like, do you know? I think.

Katy Ripp (01:11:28) –  One of the most important things you said earlier that I think ties into this is.

Katy Ripp (01:11:33) –  You just don’t take anything personally.

Katy Ripp (01:11:35) –  Yeah. From your husband. Right? Exactly. He’s not out to get you by going and coaching or going out and doing the things he loves. It’s not like he’s leaving you. I mean, when you don’t take things personally, it has to be blanket. Yeah. Personal. Correct. And what a saving grace. Yeah. I mean, it’s probably saved your marriage. Probably say I mean, possibly saved your life, right? Save relationships and friends and. Yeah. Yeah. And people are different after. Of course. Tell me about that.

Kaitlin Payne (01:12:08) –  So obviously I said I like he kind of is like more into things now.

Kaitlin Payne (01:12:12) –  Like is a little more perturbed about some things than I am. And who knows, maybe he would be. We’ve never had a five year old before, so maybe it’s, you know, that.

Katy Ripp (01:12:23) –  Way would have been that way anyway, right? Like it’s hard to know, right? Like you don’t know.

Kaitlin Payne (01:12:27) –  I mean, he’s always been this caring, loving, emotional guy that I fell in love with when I was in college. So, I mean, I don’t think our relationship has actually I mean, like, if there’s something we’re very passionate about, the other is going to back us 1,050%. Like, that’s just what our understanding is like, we’re in this together. This is the forever thing. Like we’re each other’s best friends. Like that’s what. You know what I mean? Like, that’s how it goes.

Katy Ripp (01:12:58) –  And that doesn’t come without a lot of work, though.

Kaitlin Payne (01:13:02) –  Oh, correct. You have to be really honest. Yeah, with yourself and your partner.

Katy Ripp (01:13:08) –  And I’m sure people will look at you and be like, well, you’re very lucky you found that person.

Katy Ripp (01:13:11) –  I mean, look, might have something to do with it, but you’ve also worked really hard. I mean, the fact that you went to therapy, the fact that he went to therapy, the fact that you both like, allow the other one to do what they are meant to do in his life is a huge testament.

Kaitlin Payne (01:13:27) –  Honestly, like, if I got mad every time he went hunting or.

Katy Ripp (01:13:33) –  Well, and it’s not personal. Correct. That’s the.

Kaitlin Payne (01:13:35) –  Thing. It’s like you only have so much.

Katy Ripp (01:13:38) –  Time in.

Kaitlin Payne (01:13:40) –  This world. You do what makes you happy. You don’t get that time back, and you don’t get those opportunities back. You don’t? Yeah, we don’t get that. Oh, wait, I’d like that 30 minutes that I, you know. No, do what you want right now. Do it. That’s my advice. Do it. Yeah. Like, what are you waiting for? Yeah. Because there’s never a good time for things, you know, to happen or whatever.

Kaitlin Payne (01:14:09) –  You know, there’s never going to be a, you know, the ultimate time to like, we have a young kids and life is, like, really hard sometimes. Okay. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (01:14:19) –  You’re in a season. You’re in it to win it, man.

Kaitlin Payne (01:14:22) –  Right.

Katy Ripp (01:14:22) –  How old are your kids right now.

Kaitlin Payne (01:14:23) –  Five.

Katy Ripp (01:14:24) –  Five and almost three. Yeah. And that’s an intense time right. My kids are 15 and 12. There’s no end in sight, I promise. Oh, right. Like you don’t want to wish that season away, for sure, but, like, when you get out of car seats, man.

Kaitlin Payne (01:14:40) –  Are the car seats.

Katy Ripp (01:14:42) –  So.

Kaitlin Payne (01:14:43) –  Gross? Oh, my God, there’s so many goldfish in there. Turtles, whatever the heck. We have frickin gross food on fruit snacks.

Katy Ripp (01:14:54) –  Just throw that motherfucker away when you’re really. So you don’t think you do not want it.

Kaitlin Payne (01:15:00) –  But that’s the hard thing. It’s like. Or if, like, I went shopping, you’d get like, no.

Kaitlin Payne (01:15:07) –  Yeah, that’s not how it works. Like, we both know what we bring to the table. Yeah. And our strengths and our weaknesses. So that’s how you mesh. And you have to figure that out. You figure that out real quickly after you go through something like this. And everyone’s like, oh yeah, makes you stronger in the long run or whatever the heck people like to say. You know, we were actually really very weak for like. And then that’s what we chose to do. Yeah. You had to choose that because it just doesn’t.

Katy Ripp (01:15:41) –  Do you remember that as a choice at all? Like, do you remember making a choice? Like, I have a choice here.

Kaitlin Payne (01:15:47) –  And I mean, not really, because I don’t think it was ever like we were like hand in hand.

Katy Ripp (01:15:54) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:15:55) –  Just an.

Katy Ripp (01:15:55) –  Unspoken choice. Yeah. Correct.

Kaitlin Payne (01:15:57) –  And like, there might have been days where, like, I literally couldn’t get out of bed. T takes the brunt of that.

Kaitlin Payne (01:16:06) –  Yeah. He is having a day. I take the brunt of that. And it’s not tit for tat because if you do that.

Katy Ripp (01:16:12) –  Yeah that’s over. Just like please stop taking score. Correct.

Kaitlin Payne (01:16:17) –  This is like a I’m going to pick you up when you’re down. You’re going to pick me up when I’m down. And it’s a trust. It’s not a. Yeah. Oh last week you did this. So this week I’m going to do that. No. Yeah. So just all oh we’ve, I knew that I wanted to marry him literally the second that I met him.

Katy Ripp (01:16:39) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:16:40) –  So it was just I was like well you’re stuck with me so and.

Katy Ripp (01:16:43) –  You really know because we got to be.

Kaitlin Payne (01:16:45) –  Like right.

Katy Ripp (01:16:46) –  And I need help. Right. Yeah. Tell me about really strong the golf outing. Okay. All of the things because it’s not just the golf. Right, right.

Kaitlin Payne (01:16:56) –  So around for Riley. So we were like, we have to give back. Like we have to.

Katy Ripp (01:17:02) –  Help did around. I’m sorry to interrupt it around for Riley start the first year. So it was like six months later. Was that your idea?

Kaitlin Payne (01:17:10) –  We kind of just were like, what? Do we want to do something. What do we do? Yeah. And we’re like, obviously, you know, my brother in law had played in a lot of charity golf tournament and things like that. He’s like, you make it what it is. Yeah. So we were like, all right, yeah, be that fucking hurt. So let’s go. It has become I won’t say like standardized, but now it’s just me and my sister Kelsey. She does a lot of work on it. I’m very thankful for her because she takes on, you know, a lot of jobs and responsibility when it comes to that. We wanted it to be around her birthday, not on her birthday will never be on her birthday. It’s always the first Friday in October, and we just wanted a place to one celebrate her life because obviously she deserves that.

Kaitlin Payne (01:18:05) –  We kind of were like, you know, people are asking us all the time like, what can we do to help with XYZ? So we’re like, okay, this first date. And we wanted we knew we wanted to give back because there was no funding. Yeah. For pediatric cancer, like literally the funding is it’s actually sickening. And you can earmark things all the time. Yeah. Like in which at the children’s hospital, if you wanted to go to certain things like child life, which gives them toys to play with and things like that. Otherwise you can say like what they most need it to. But then with obviously my brother in law’s affiliation with the cancer center, which is affiliated directly with American Family Children’s Hospital, we said, why not give it to the cancer center so they can strictly do pediatric cancer research.

Katy Ripp (01:19:01) –  And you can earmark it? Yeah. That specifically. That’s amazing. Yes. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:19:06) –  Then and now just become this full blown, you know the doctors come out and talk.

Kaitlin Payne (01:19:12) –  Doctor Bailey is awesome. He literally has talked for the last 3 or 4 years. And it’s really, I think, nice for the people who are at the golf outing to hear him talk, just so we know where the money is going, because, I mean, yes, it is a golf outing. It’s a good time, right? Yeah. It fills up so fast. It’s just it’s crazy. And we do want everybody to have fun. That’s like, this is not a sit here and cry. And you know for me about this thing, that’s the exact opposite of what we want. We want fun. We want you to be here because we were celebrating her life and her memory and, you know, things like that. Her picture is in the American Family Children’s Hospital next to Cindy Crawford. Oh, yes. Yeah. So Cindy Crawford’s brother or some sibling was treated.

Katy Ripp (01:20:10) –  Oh, I did not know that.

Kaitlin Payne (01:20:11) –  Yeah, it’s something along those lines. And so she obviously donated a ton of money there.

Kaitlin Payne (01:20:18) –  So but then obviously then Riley’s picture and plaque is next door. We haven’t gotten to seen it yet because of Covid and all the restrictions they’ve put on there, but we are hopefully going to go to see it in the next coming months. So she’s making her mark and I think she probably will for a very long time. Yeah. So yeah around for Ali is it’s just fun. It’s fun to be there. There’s Willow and Weld comes. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (01:20:48) –  It’s your silent auction is amazing.

Kaitlin Payne (01:20:50) –  Yeah. You know.

Katy Ripp (01:20:51) –  If somebody wanted to donate in Riley’s name, is there a way to do that?

Kaitlin Payne (01:20:56) –  Yes, it’s all on. It’s just around for Riley.

Katy Ripp (01:21:01) –  Riley? Yes, yes. We’ll definitely put that in the show notes to. Okay, how about going forward? What does life look like? I know you’re in that, like, intense kid time. Yeah, I would imagine that some people that are listening to this or possibly going through this know somebody that is. Are you interested in talking about it forever? Are you interested in doing something with it? Are you not there yet?

Kaitlin Payne (01:21:27) –  No, I’m definitely interested in talking.

Kaitlin Payne (01:21:30) –  I mean, I think it’s if you can’t talk to people about it, like, to me, I want to help as many people as I can with this stuff. This happened to me. Okay. And if it’s also happening to you, having someone who has been through it might, you know, help. You might, I don’t. It all depends on your, you know, what you’re going through and whatever. But to me, I’ll always be connected to this. I will. And with my new job right now, I am the HR and Project Management Director for Brand Tech. and we also partner with Guarding Against Cancer. Oh yeah, so I set up all the basketball games very cool around. So I get to work with guarding against cancer for right now and go around. And it helps obviously, that there’s a kind of a history there. And that’s why my boss was like, you know, I knew you’d be perfect for this job. So here it is. You know, so, you know, it’s just when you have a story, I’m not afraid to tell my story or afraid to tell her story.

Kaitlin Payne (01:22:37) –  Right. Like that’s just not who I am. And if I wasn’t, that’s fine. If I didn’t want to share a story, then I wouldn’t. So I will always be connected to it. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (01:22:47) –  I think you mentioned therapy a couple of times. Is there anything else that’s really helped you?

Kaitlin Payne (01:22:52) –  Oh, so I started working out. Yeah. Like it’s just I started doing. Actually, my friend Lauren was like, hey, do you want to just try working out? And so I ended up working out with a bunch of girls on or women on zoom. Yeah. When this whole stuff was going down, we had it was obviously more back then because of Covid and whatnot. Like, you know, if I don’t move my body, I’m crappy. You don’t want to deal with me. Like, it’s just kind of like a mental thing, because it’s more like an expressive kind of like lift, heavy weight and kind of. The first program that I did was a boxing one, and I literally took that very seriously, like, and I actually got a bag some of it.

Kaitlin Payne (01:23:40) –  And I was so beyond frustrated that I just beat the shit out of the back. Shit out of it and helpful.

Katy Ripp (01:23:48) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:23:48) –  Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. Obviously mentally, emotionally and with my health. Yeah. You know, journey I ended up I think it lost like £30, £35 like it was crazy because obviously and I still am this way. I’m an emotional eater. When I’m sad, please give me a casserole like dad. Can you make me some potatoes and ham, please?

Katy Ripp (01:24:18) –  I mean, I’m the same. And I love, like, this sounds horrible, but I love funeral food. Oh, yeah. Right. Like all the funerals. Right. Like the cheesy potatoes. You know, again, we’re from Wisconsin, so funeral food is a real thing here. Like, I think it’s a real thing everywhere. But we’re not like in Louisiana. No. Right. Like where they have, like, cool funeral, funeral food. This is like.

Kaitlin Payne (01:24:37) –  No, this is like meat potatoes.

Katy Ripp (01:24:39) –  Yeah. Tater tot casserole. All the desserts. Yeah. Hit me all the funeral food.

Kaitlin Payne (01:24:44) –  Right. The strawberry pretzel dessert. I’m like, dad, can you please just.

Katy Ripp (01:24:48) –  Make.

Kaitlin Payne (01:24:48) –  Anything in the polka dot casserole dish, please? Yep, yep. Whatever you say. You know what I mean? So. Yeah. Or, like, I think I asked my one of my aunts, can you make me your macaroni and cheese? Well, of course.

Katy Ripp (01:25:01) –  Yes, I.

Kaitlin Payne (01:25:02) –  Can, of course.

Katy Ripp (01:25:03) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:25:03) –  So that’s the thing. Let me ask.

Katy Ripp (01:25:06) –  You about your family. How is everybody? Right. Like, I know you’ve got four nephews, right? And they were super close to Riley. And that’s hard to lose a cousin. Right. Like there’s just. Well. And I think it was more like their sister.

Kaitlin Payne (01:25:19) –  It was crazy to I mean, watching them navigate I mean, the oldest one, Alden, is going to be 20 here in a couple of days.

Katy Ripp (01:25:29) –  Really?

Kaitlin Payne (01:25:30) –  I know, isn’t that crazy? And 20.

Katy Ripp (01:25:34) –  Oh, wow.

Kaitlin Payne (01:25:35) –  And they’re just so like. And he. Happy Mother’s day Kate. You know, like texting and like they all just they’re very well brought up boys and obviously watching them kind of navigate this whole scenario because they all they lost a cousin. Then they lost their great grandma and then they lost their grandma. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (01:25:58) –  They and their mom lost their mom and their mom lost their niece. Right. And, you know, I mean, there is a lot of, again, a lot of bags of grief that go along with that. And it changes those kids lives. It just changes them. Right. Like my kids were different. My kids were only five and eight when al died. But my kids were different before. Yeah, just like death just changes you. It’s a part of life, but death changes you. Period.

Kaitlin Payne (01:26:27) –  Yeah. And their dad, Tim, usually always talks to at the golf outing. And he is like a big proponent of perspective.

Kaitlin Payne (01:26:37) –  He’s like, you could do this, you guys, or you could do this. You know, you could lay in bed all day or you could like. And he always like said, rather you would choose to get up and go move and go do this. So and then but yeah, watching their parents go through it because some of my sister Kelsey was in Chicago and Riley was going through her chemo, and she would come up whenever she could, obviously. Yeah. But then Kendra would, you know, come to the hospital, bring the boys, and, you know, she’d come and hang out during the day and, you know, all those things. So, yeah, they just they’re all, you know, and the littlest one is he just got a sixth grade. So and he I think they were obviously they would have sleepovers with her at my parents house and you know, they would, you know, little kids hang together. So it’s like yeah, you know, they are still in that like get Ted mode, you know what I mean? Which I’m always like, should I send them pictures? Should I want, you know, and they, you know, have their moments when they talk about it and then they don’t because, yeah, they’re still there, I Imagine being that.

Katy Ripp (01:27:45) –  Yeah. They’ve been like in their teen, you know, like little kid lives up to teens. And, you know, they become very self-absorbed too. And that’s exactly how it’s supposed to be. So by all means. But no. I’ve seen photos, you know, over the years, and it just like they are such good boys. I don’t know them personally, but, like, you could just tell that they’re just, you know, their sister really well and him. and they’re just it’s just a good family. So. And it’s very hard to see bad things happen to good families. That is like while it’s reality, it’s not fun. Oh of course, like, it’s not it’s not easy even from I mean, I’m not in any way saying like, oh, you should feel bad for me because I feel bad for you. But like, it’s a very it’s just hard to see stuff like this happen. But then you see things like around for Riley. Right. Which it just.

Katy Ripp (01:28:37) –  And you see the outpouring of support and you see that people are very engaged and and again, right. Like it’s a golf holiday. Right. Like we’re all here for the fun. And I get like, don’t get me wrong, I love me a good golf outing. But when the doctor talks everybody shuts up. Right. Like it is really important for that to be like at the forefront with the side of fun, right? Right. Or vice versa or whatever it is. Oh, and.

Kaitlin Payne (01:29:04) –  I should say, like with the Boys, its initial show, like the where they grew up and stuff. Their friends like all know about Riley and things like that, which, you know, they have a choice not to talk like maybe it really makes them sad. So. And I never want to make them or whatever. But like, not all the news in college. All of his buddies came to around for Ali and then we went out together. Yeah. So it’s just like.

Katy Ripp (01:29:31) –  And then we’ll just continue, right? Like their kids will know about Riley.

Katy Ripp (01:29:35) –  They’re like, it is a it just that kind of thing. When you can find the positive in it, when you can shine some light on it, when you can be thankful and grateful for the time that you had. It does spread. I mean, I hope it spreads faster and deeper correct than the other way, right? Because there’s other ways.

Kaitlin Payne (01:29:56) –  Well, and also giving them space to have shitty days and having it’s okay if you are sad about this today because I’m sad too. Like I always there. they’re always there for me, I think. And this was even in a went to the race for research. It’s something that the Carbon Cancer Center does. And there’s a picture of me and I’m leaning on Hudson and he has his arm around me, and I remember him saying, it’s okay, it’s okay. Like so they are all protectors of.

Katy Ripp (01:30:27) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:30:28) –  All of us.

Katy Ripp (01:30:29) –  The tallest boys on Earth. Oh, they all look like protectors tonight.

Kaitlin Payne (01:30:35) –  It’s so crazy to me.

Kaitlin Payne (01:30:36) –  I was like, you were literally felt like yesterday. You were sitting on my lap. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (01:30:41) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:30:41) –  And now you.

Katy Ripp (01:30:42) –  Are. Time marches on, you know.

Kaitlin Payne (01:30:44) –  18 year old making, you know, all your own decisions, and you couldn’t turn out to be a better person. So it’s just crazy. But they are, you know, they’re amazing boys.

Katy Ripp (01:30:58) –  And you said Kelsey just had her scan and she’s free. Yes. Yep, yep. Amazing.

Kaitlin Payne (01:31:01) –  Building the house with her husband. Yep. And she’s a stepdaughter who was literally three days apart from link. Oh. So.

Katy Ripp (01:31:10) –  Yeah. And Kendra is good. I mean, she’s watching all those boys.

Kaitlin Payne (01:31:13) –  I know she’s.

Katy Ripp (01:31:14) –  Leave the nest. Right.

Kaitlin Payne (01:31:15) –  Gonna say that way?

Katy Ripp (01:31:16) –  Whichever way.

Kaitlin Payne (01:31:18) –  Stevens Point or watch it. Someone was here. Someone was there. And your dad. Oh, gosh. Geez. I joke with everyone. I’m like, he has a busier social schedule than I do. Like when I call him to like.

Katy Ripp (01:31:31) –  Hey, you want to do something?

Kaitlin Payne (01:31:32) –  Do you want to babysit? And he was like, no, I can’t. It’s like, oh, damn it. Like he’s like, well, I’m actually going to Remington’s for fish with. I’m like.

Katy Ripp (01:31:42) –  Okay. I mean, I wanted to do that, too.

Kaitlin Payne (01:31:45) –  Like, I guess I have to bring my kids out. No, duh. You take them over. But he just turned 70, okay? And he is, you know, just living man or whatever. You’re like Matthew McConaughey.

Katy Ripp (01:31:59) –  Yeah. Literally. So.

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:01) –  Yeah, he golfs and go watch length. He retired.

Katy Ripp (01:32:04) –  Yes. Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:05) –  Yeah, yeah. He retired.

Katy Ripp (01:32:07) –  Following sports.

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:07) –  Like seven years. He retired like almost eight years ago. I want to say. Oh okay. So yeah, when I was pregnant with Riley he retired. Oh okay. So yeah. 2016. So yeah. Way more than. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah he is goes to every T-ball game he can.

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:23) –  And every lacrosse game. Every. Yeah every game.

Katy Ripp (01:32:27) –  Just to close her up. Anything you would like to add? Anything you’ve learned. Anything. I’d love to have you back at some point after. Maybe after.

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:35) –  You know, I love talking.

Katy Ripp (01:32:37) –  So, I mean, maybe after around for Riley. That would be amazing. I would love to hear about, you know, how this year went and, yeah, anything you’d like to add?

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:44) –  Don’t be surprised that yourself and what you can walk through.

Katy Ripp (01:32:50) –  Yeah.

Kaitlin Payne (01:32:51) –  Literally just keep going because it’s a shit sandwich, but make it literally the best shit sandwich. I like that so much. It’s so it’s hard, but it’s worth it because you only get one life. So. And I don’t want my kids right now to be like, oh, did I get the short end of the stick because my sister got sick? They don’t even know her. Yeah, they have no clue about her. So I’m trying to be the best human that I can be for myself, for my husband and my kids.

Kaitlin Payne (01:33:30) –  Yeah. And my family. So.

Katy Ripp (01:33:33) –  And it sounds like she taught you a lot in her short little time.

Kaitlin Payne (01:33:36) –  And I am more than I could ever imagine. Yeah, more than anything I could possibly learn elsewhere.

Katy Ripp (01:33:42) –  Yeah. Thanks for being here.

Kaitlin Payne (01:33:45) –  Thanks for having me.

Katy Ripp (01:33:48) –  And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me. Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message at Katy Ripp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode, or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at katyripp.com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Katy Ripp (01:34:29) –  Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember, #hashtagactuallyican

Shonna Dexter (00:00:00) –  I think that sobriety gave me clarity, but the biggest thing it gave me was confidence. And when you believe in yourself and when you believe in your ability to take control of your life and build your life with intention, nothing can stop you. You will figure it out.

Katy Ripp (00:00:20) –  Hey there, fellow rebels, welcome to #ActuallyICan the podcast where we say a hearty hell yes to designing life on our own terms. I’m Katy Ripp, a lifestyle coach, business mentor, and serial entrepreneur here to guide you through the wild ride, defying what society expects of us and embracing our authenticity. On this show, we dive deep into taboo topics like death, money, spirituality, entrepreneurship, unapologetic self-care, and personal development, all while swearing and laughing along the way. Expect down and dirty conversations, plenty of humor and a whole lot of exploration, leaving you feeling empowered to be your truest self. Whether you’re craving a good laugh, seeking unconventional self-care tips, or simply looking for some camaraderie, you’ve come to the right place.

Katy Ripp (00:01:07) –  We only get this one short life, so buckle up and let’s design yours on our own terms. Ready to dive in? Let’s go. We are already recording because every time I do these podcasts, I feel like I do 15 minutes of the intro and here we go and all of this stuff. And that’s all where the all the important shit is.

Shonna Dexter (00:01:33) –  All the juicy shit happens. Shout out this is so.

Katy Ripp (00:01:36) –  Exciting.

Shonna Dexter (00:01:36) –  For me to meet you finally, like connect in real life.

Katy Ripp (00:01:41) –  How long is it? Well, for me, I think I’ve been following you for four years. How long have you been sober?

Shonna Dexter (00:01:47) –  Four and a half years.

Katy Ripp (00:01:48) –  I have been following you for four and a half years. Yeah. Is that crazy or what?

Shonna Dexter (00:01:52) –  That’s wild. And it’s so crazy that, like, I just, you know, when I first got sober, I started. Just, like doing the sober hashtags on Instagram and the number of people that that has connected me with It’s just been really insane blessing in my life.

Katy Ripp (00:02:08) –  Yeah, it’s fascinating right? I think I just had. Do you know Danielle de Grandi?

Shonna Dexter (00:02:14) –  No, I don’t use.

Katy Ripp (00:02:15) –  The sober rebel. Like that’s what she kind of goes by and she’s got a huge Facebook group. But I just had her on. And I’ve only met her through Instagram. And like, she’s in some of my, like, I’ve coached her. I’ve had like some other I just the connection is so fascinating to me.

Shonna Dexter (00:02:31) –  Yeah, I actually I got on a call last week with a girl who is like significantly younger than me. She’s like in our late 20s, I think. And but she’s a business coach and she found me years ago, started following my sobriety journey. She quit drinking. And so now as I’m like, just, you know, I’m a business coach too, but I’m trying to get out of my own way, right? Aren’t we? So I got on the call with her, and it was just all these little connections. It’s just wild.

Katy Ripp (00:03:03) –  Not everybody loves social media. I am, like, a stickler about going through my social media and really being very intentional about my social media, so I love it. I’ve got nice sunrises and sunsets and all these inspirational people and really cool quotes and whatever, but I am religious about going through and unfollowing people.

Shonna Dexter (00:03:23) –  Or reading that, right? Yeah, I tell people that all the time. It will be what you make it. So if you feed into and watch this drama filled negative stuff, yeah, that’s going to keep feeding you those things. Yeah. So you have to be intentional about it. Mine is full of dogs and dog grooming videos. That’s like my ASMR. Like I just zone out and watch these dogs in their transformations and then, like, empowered women and midlife women. And yeah, it’s totally what you make it.

Katy Ripp (00:04:00) –  I love that word you use that curated like I do have a curated feed. That’s exactly what I have. And so when I scroll on it, like I get super excited and really inspired.

Katy Ripp (00:04:10) –  And I mean, I don’t really have like a comparison issue because I just like, there’s nobody out there I really compare myself to. I just want to be better. And that’s what Instagram makes me.

Shonna Dexter (00:04:20) –  I don’t know, there you go.

Katy Ripp (00:04:22) –  Say it.

Shonna Dexter (00:04:22) –  And it’s a tool, right?

Katy Ripp (00:04:24) –  I get to meet people like you. This is so amazing to me. I am so honored you’re here. Really, I just I remember exactly where I was sitting when I found you, which is so fascinating to me. I was, you know, we owned a wine bar, and I was sitting upstairs in my wine bar at like a table that I was, I think I was working or getting ready for an event or something, and I’m pretty sure I had a bottle of wine in front of me. And I’ve had I think we’ve shared like, a lot of the same story. Right? I’ve had a thousand day ones. I started over 100 different ways, 100 different times, a thousand different days.

Katy Ripp (00:05:02) –  And like, I just related to you. And I was like, God, could I ever be that brave to be out here and be doing that? And yeah, so I’d love to. Well, first of all, it’s a pleasure and an honor to meet you. I just find you to be so inspirational and to watch your journey and be a business owner. Right? Like a legit real time business owner. And you were that before you got sober, right? And so I think we also parallel that life for sure. And we’ve talked a little bit about, you know, back and forth on Instagram, just so everybody knows, this is the first time that Shonna and I have actually ever talked.

Shonna Dexter (00:05:40) –  Ever talked. I’ve heard your voice, but, like, we’ve never talked.

Katy Ripp (00:05:44) –  This is so awesome. So, you know, we’ve gone back and forth or I’ve watched a lot of your progression, but also when you were so gracious to be on our podcast, you filled out a little questionnaire about how much your bottom line has changed and how your like, business life has changed.

Katy Ripp (00:06:03) –  And I relate to that so much. And it’s so hard to quantify that and quantify it to other people because it was such a gradual thing for me. I mean, if I go back to the day I got sober, I mean, like I have the tracking, like the reports from the day I got sober until now. And for me, it wasn’t necessarily just the sobriety part. It’s sobriety was on the top for me, and the rest of it was just a trickle down effect. I don’t know how else to explain it, but I think we relate to that in each other’s lives. And so I would love you to just spill it. Tell me your story. Tell me where you are.

Shonna Dexter (00:06:44) –  What you’re doing.

Katy Ripp (00:06:45) –  My intention for this podcast is to just share stories like this, sort of rip the shame off, rip the anxiety off of it. Talk about alcohol. Like, I don’t think that. Yeah, I think the world is changing anyway, and I love that so much.

Katy Ripp (00:07:01) –  But I would just love to hear your story and, and spill it about all the things that sobriety did for you. But also, as we get further away from sobriety, it becomes less and less about not drinking and more and more about self-care and really being honest with ourselves and really being authentic. So I’m just going to give you the green light to go.

Shonna Dexter (00:07:26) –  Okay, well, I could go in a million different directions. So I’m going to try to keep it on track and not have like squirrel brain all over the place. Okay.

Katy Ripp (00:07:33) –  We’re all I think all listeners are squirrel brain too, so it’s fine.

Shonna Dexter (00:07:36) –  Yeah, I think that’s part of why I’m a great entrepreneur, right? I never had a lack of ideas and things to say. But really, you know, I look at 2019 was my turning point. I had always been a big drinker. I, you know, started drinking when I was 15 years old. And I grew up in Topeka, Kansas, which is like the capital of Kansas and, you know, but 100,000 people.

Shonna Dexter (00:08:03) –  So not a small town, but not a big city by any means either. And that’s what you did in high school, was you went to football games and basketball games and you went to parties and you drank. And so I was introduced to alcohol at a very young age and realized like, oh, this makes me a totally different person. And when you’re 15, who doesn’t want to be a different person, right. Like, I was so shy had Had always been, you know, I didn’t know what an introvert was then, but very much an introvert and just really incredibly shy. And so when I took my first few drinks of alcohol and I realized that, like, it let me be who I wanted, all the girls that I admired, all the girls that I wanted to be, were super bubbly, outgoing, had tons of friends, and I’m over here cowering in the corner all the time, afraid to talk to people, right? So it let me be that person. And of course, I’m now 30 years removed from that moment, 32 years removed from that moment.

Shonna Dexter (00:09:08) –  And I can say, now that’s where it began. But back then, hey, this is just what you do. It’s a party, right? Are you.

Katy Ripp (00:09:17) –  47?

Shonna Dexter (00:09:18) –  I am 47. I turn 47in March. Oh, yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:09:22) –  Donna, you look like you’re about 25.

Shonna Dexter (00:09:25) –  Oh, well. Thank you. Oh, I’m working on it.

Katy Ripp (00:09:29) –  Aging backwards?

Shonna Dexter (00:09:31) –  Yeah. I look at old pictures and I’m like, Holy mackerel, I cannot believe that. But oh.

Katy Ripp (00:09:36) –  My God, I did not think. I mean, I’m going to be 46 in October. And so it’s very it’s an eye opening age.

Shonna Dexter (00:09:44) –  Midlife is wild.

Katy Ripp (00:09:45) –  Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (00:09:46) –  It’s an old time for sure.

Katy Ripp (00:09:48) –  I actually love it. This season of life is lovely for me. I feel more in my own skin and own body and feel very good. So. But midlife is crazy, so I’m sorry to interrupt. I just.

Shonna Dexter (00:10:02) –  Like, totally fine looking.

Katy Ripp (00:10:03) –  At you right now. I’m like, Holy shit, I want to look like that at 47.

Shonna Dexter (00:10:07) –  Stop!

Katy Ripp (00:10:08) –  Which thank you for me.

Shonna Dexter (00:10:10) –  I so, you know, that was the beginning for me. And then fast forward, like my early 20s, I moved to Las Vegas. Party capital of the world. Right. So it was just a thing, like he went out at 10 p.m., you took your sunglasses with you because you knew you weren’t going home until after the sun came up. And that was just, you know, but in my early 20s, I could recover from those evenings much easier.

Katy Ripp (00:10:37) –  Much different story these.

Shonna Dexter (00:10:38) –  Days. Yeah, in my late 20s. So I had moved back to Kansas City, and I met my husband and he had three children. And as a girl who never wanted kids but fell in love with the man. It was an insane time for me. I’m also an only child, so like I don’t have a lot of exposure to kids. And so I was always the youngest like cousin, just never really been around kids. And so falling in love with a man who had three children and then getting married when I was 30, They came to live with us full time about a year and a half after we got married.

Katy Ripp (00:11:24) –  How old were they at the time?

Shonna Dexter (00:11:26) –  Eight, 11 and 13.

Katy Ripp (00:11:28) –  Oh, at 30 years old.

Shonna Dexter (00:11:30) –  Yeah. So it was really interesting. And today, again, very far removed from that. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me. Like, my stepkids are everything to me. But at the time, I didn’t have coping mechanisms. I went from single, fun loving gal to full time mom of three within three years. And so I didn’t know how to be those things. And I had a corporate job worked, you know, 45 hours a week. And that was just the expectation at that job. You worked 730 to 530 every day. And so learning how to deal with having kids and never having time for myself, it just didn’t happen. And so I turned to wine. Yeah. And it became a nightly ritual. And again, it just started slow. Right. It’s I think for so many people it’s just this very slow progression. And you may be like, I was where on the weekends, like I was a binge drinker.

Shonna Dexter (00:12:34) –  Let’s get it on. Let’s forget about all of this stuff going on in my life and let’s just do this right. There was no moderation. If I was going to moderate like, to me, it was like, what’s the point? Why would anyone want to do that? Actually?

Katy Ripp (00:12:53) –  Like, I didn’t want to just have one. I wanted to get drunk, right? Like, I, I also wanted to escape. So it was for me. It was a like a medication on a fun side. Can I ask, did your husband drink? Like, were you guys drinking buddies?

Shonna Dexter (00:13:08) –  Right?

Katy Ripp (00:13:09) –  Yeah, yeah. So that’s what my husband and I did too. We were like, drinking buddies. So it was like. I mean, in hindsight, I realized I was the instigator, right? Like, I didn’t realize how much I instigated until I was on the other side of this. And while he’s a big drinker, he can, like, take it or leave it, I never could.

Katy Ripp (00:13:26) –  So. Sure.

Shonna Dexter (00:13:27) –  Exactly. I mean, exact same scenario, right? Our lifestyle and our socialising revolved around driving, sporting events, you know, going out to bars and watching live music, things like that. Like everything we did in our friend group it revolved around drinking. Yeah. And so in 2019, fast forward 2019, I was 42. I, you know, just slow progression of the alcohol in my life. I had started my own business, started as a side gig, built it into my full time job and slowly started, you know, seeing that. Okay, what was one glass of wine is now 2 or 3 on the weekends. What was two glasses of wine is now a bottle like again, just this very slow progression and having stress and being an anxiety ridden person in the first place, and then just not knowing how to deal with it, not having coping mechanisms. And so I turned to wine. And 20 19th January I was hosting an event for spray tan or so.

Shonna Dexter (00:14:39) –  My business is spray tanning, sunless tanning. And I hosted the only conference in the world for spray tanners. I was just the only person who was dumb enough to do this. So I started that organization in 2000.

Katy Ripp (00:14:55) –  Say dumb enough, I say brave enough.

Shonna Dexter (00:14:57) –  Yeah, well, it ended up like destroying me, but it was my moment too, you know? But I started it in 2015. By 2019, I was hosting this event for, you know, hundreds of people across the country and the world would come to Las Vegas, where I hosted the event, and there was a night where I didn’t even. I think I had one glass of wine. This moment had nothing to do with alcohol, and it had everything to do with the fact that I did not sleep. I ate terrible, I just didn’t take care of myself for years leading up to that. And my nervous system said, we’re done, we’re done, and I will never forget I was laying on the bathroom floor of my hotel room and it was like an out-of-body experience.

Shonna Dexter (00:15:47) –  It was. I’ve had plenty of panic attacks in my life. It was a panic attack on steroids. It was insane and literally could not function for a full 24 hours. I couldn’t get out of bed to go host my own event. Thankfully, I had people there who stepped in and executed, but that was my moment of clarity. That was my moment of, okay, this is much bigger than you think it is, and you can’t just keep living like this. But I didn’t know then what the fix was. I just knew that something had to change. I knew that alcohol probably had something to do with it, but nobody was talking about sobriety then like it was. That was only five years ago. And the way the conversation has changed around alcohol in the last five years is 180.

Katy Ripp (00:16:35) –  Yeah, I mean, to the moon really, because it was just never talked about. Let me ask you, Sean, did you have well, two questions. One is did you feel bad about drinking? Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:16:48) –  You know, you shouldn’t at one point or another.

Shonna Dexter (00:16:51) –  I don’t know that I ever knew I shouldn’t. Yeah, I really believed that I could moderate, right, that I could be that take it or leave it person. And I didn’t really understand why I would go into situations and intend to have one glass of wine. And it always became a bottle, but I could not, in 2019, fathom my life without alcohol. No.

Katy Ripp (00:17:15) –  Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (00:17:16) –  I mean, because it was just such an ingrained it was a part of my identity.

Katy Ripp (00:17:20) –  Did anybody say anything to you? I think that’s one of the questions that people have, like, was this your decision or somebody else’s decision? Nobody ever said anything to me. I mean, ever. Yeah. Nobody ever said anything.

Shonna Dexter (00:17:34) –  No. Hang out with people who are drinking on the same level as you. They tend to not want you to change your version of you that they know and identify with. And so you changing, they think says something about them.

Katy Ripp (00:17:52) –  Yeah, 100%.

Shonna Dexter (00:17:52) –  So I mean, I actually just had this conversation with my husband on a walk yesterday, and we were talking about the fact that he has now significantly cut back on his drinking. And I said, you know, something that I’ve been thinking about recently is how he always used to say to me, like, I would be hung over on a Sunday laying on the couch, just feeling like poo. You know, and not get off the couch all day. And he would be like, I cannot believe you are 40 years old and you have not figured out how to feel better the day after you drink, because I was not the girl who would like, party and throw up in the toilet and then feel great the next day. But mean.

Katy Ripp (00:18:32) –  When you’re talking about hangovers.

Shonna Dexter (00:18:34) –  Yeah, I was literally just like dead to the world after a night of bingeing. And like you said, your husband is, Justin is very much a take it or leave it drinker likes to party, but he could just drink and maintain a certain level of buzz or whatever and never hit that point where he’s just gone.

Shonna Dexter (00:18:57) –  Yeah. And so I was like, but how ironic that, like, that was kind of, I think his way of letting me know that this wasn’t working for me. Yeah. Without him coming out and saying, hey, like, have you ever thought about this? You know. But I think he also was concerned, just like I was when I quit, when I made the decision for me and made it an empowered decision to say I’m going to be sober, I was scared to death what it would do to my marriage. And I think he also probably had those concerns of if my wife was drinking, then what does our life look like?

Katy Ripp (00:19:37) –  Uhhuh. There are significant fears that I had for decades. One was my relationship, right? Like, if I don’t drink, what does that make us anymore? Because that’s what we did, where all my friends are going to go, because that was my entire social life, was wrapped up in drinking. What am I going to do with my time now that I’m not drinking? Right? Like I’m going to be bored.

Katy Ripp (00:19:59) –  There’s going to be nothing to do. I mean, those are the big three for me. We’re like, any other one’s hit for you. I mean, those are big enough, right? To me.

Shonna Dexter (00:20:07) –  I think that’s your social life.

Katy Ripp (00:20:09) –  Also, I had no other way to cope with anything. Right? Like happy, sad, you know, excited, elated, grieving. I mean, I had no other way to cope with anything. So it was I’m also giving up my medication. So I didn’t realize it really at the time how significant that was. I’m curious, you know, because that is such a fear. Tell me how it’s changed your relationship if it has with your husband.

Shonna Dexter (00:20:35) –  So I quit. I decided my day one was January 1st, 2020. I had no idea what was coming two months later. Right. And I don’t know, I think initially for me it was very like, okay, I did Annie Grace’s live alcohol experiment and connected with a lot of people all over the world who were kind of going through this 30 day program the same time as me.

Shonna Dexter (00:21:00) –  And I would say maybe 2% of US states over from. Yeah, right from that whole New Year’s resolution. So, yeah, I mean, exactly. And I had done everybody does that. I had been doing dry January every year for like five years. Okay. So to me, Dry January was like proof to myself that I don’t have a problem. Yeah. Where do you go 30 days with if I can willpower my way through 30 days of this, then I don’t have a problem with alcohol.

Katy Ripp (00:21:30) –  Yeah, I know I had a problem because I didn’t drink while I was pregnant. So I’ve had two kids, right? So I didn’t go pregnant. So I was like, well, obviously I don’t have a problem then that you don’t drink when you’re pregnant, right? Like there’s something bigger anyway.

Shonna Dexter (00:21:43) –  Yeah. So then for me, on January 2nd, actually, I had my first Reiki session ever, and this woman came to my house and did Reiki on me. And I knew after that session that I would never drink again.

Shonna Dexter (00:22:01) –  On January 1st, it was still a no no. I didn’t do this 30 day program. I’m gonna figure out how to moderate. And the next day after my Reiki session I just knew like this has to be it for me. I am not a take it or leave a drinker. I am an all or nothing drinker.

Katy Ripp (00:22:22) –  And sign yourself to be an all or nothing person. Yes. Yeah, I can’t even remember when I heard this or where I heard it. It doesn’t really matter. But I remember somebody saying along my life path, I don’t moderate anything in my life. Why should I expect to moderate an addictive substance? Like, why should I expect to have this one thing in moderation in my life? Because I don’t moderate anything. I’m passionate and balls to the wall about everything in my life. It’s odd to think that I would be able to moderate this one thing.

Shonna Dexter (00:22:57) –  Exactly.

Katy Ripp (00:22:57) –  Which is not meant to be moderated, by the way. Right? Like I don’t love getting into the anti grace who I love.

Katy Ripp (00:23:04) –  And I’ll put her information in this session. Notes. I’ve read all of her books and I’ve done all of the I didn’t do the workshops and stuff like that, but I really loved what she has to say. I love her message. I love everything about it. She gets pretty down and dirty into the science of it, and some people love that, and I do love it. Society isn’t really ready to accept that alcohol is an addictive substance, right? Like we are expecting that people should control it when chemically it’s not meant to do that, right? Like I used to drink 7 or 8 glasses of wine. I can hardly drink 7 or 8 glasses of water.

Shonna Dexter (00:23:40) –  Right?

Katy Ripp (00:23:41) –  I mean, literally, I have a smart water bottle like that tells me how many I have to drink throughout the day. Very rarely do I drink eight. I could very easily drink eight glasses of wine because chemically it’s ready for you to have another one. In any case, I say I’m not going to get into that.

Katy Ripp (00:24:02) –  Sometimes I do, but yeah, that part is I just like I don’t moderate anything. I don’t moderate my businesses. I don’t moderate my love, my relationships, my personal development, my exercise, my food.

Shonna Dexter (00:24:16) –  Like just all or nothing.

Katy Ripp (00:24:18) –  Yeah, it’s just not who I am. And I think we find more people like that, right? Like more and more people that have quit drinking are very, very black and white people. I think we can I mean, I’m trying to teach myself consistency. And, you know, that’s one of the things I’m really working on. But it’s pretty true. I think of a lot of us. And then we expect ourselves to moderate because that’s what society does. Correct. And I would have loved to be that person. I wouldn’t be able to pick up and put down a red glass of wine at dinner. I would, I really would. I’m not well at that person and now I don’t care at all, right? Like, I mean, right now I have no interest and same with me.

Katy Ripp (00:24:57) –  My story is similar. I didn’t hit a rock bottom. I say a lot of the times I like skipped along the bottom for a while. I was at my husband’s 40th birthday party. I drank all day long. I wasn’t obnoxious, it was not like a rock bottom. It was. I got a ride home and I. I mean, I woke up the next day and I was like, I am done. I am never, ever doing this again, and I haven’t. But for me it has to be a hard no. I cannot do a maybe I can’t do just one. I just like once. I just accepted it like liberating. It’s so freeing. I have a sign in my office, it says 99% is torture and 100% is bliss. Like, true. And for me it was just a decision I just like, decided. I just like no more. I can’t do it. And I’ve done that about a lot of the things. So it sounds like you had the same epiphany, right? Like I’m just done, you know, simultaneously.

Shonna Dexter (00:25:56) –  I was also listening to James clear Atomic Habits, you know, and he talks a lot about choosing your identity. And I had always identified as a party girl, like, I am a party girl. And I decided on January 2nd I am going to identify as a sober person. And I think sober is a word that a lot of people don’t like. I know people who are alcohol free or whatever, but to me, sobriety meant I am freeing myself from any and every substance because a lot of people like California sober. Right? So especially with our country and the laws around marijuana relaxing, a lot of people are going, they’re turning from alcohol to marijuana. Yeah, it’s still an escape. It’s still a way to not deal with your problems. And with the things that are living inside you and growing that will ultimately take you out. Yeah. And as a highly sensitive person with a very sensitive nervous system, you know, again, all things that I’ve learned about myself over the last four years, but I feel everything big.

Shonna Dexter (00:27:09) –  And so for me, you know, the thought of smoking something or taking a gummy or something to still just numb down that experience and those big emotions and those big feelings. That’s no different than using alcohol or wine to do the same thing. So I decided that I was going to claim sobriety as a positive, not as, oh, look at her, the girl over there in the corner who has a problem. And it’s not like any of us and we can all moderate. No one in my life, let’s be honest, no one in my life was moderating. Very few.

Katy Ripp (00:27:47) –  Yeah, and I had people surround myself with people that did because it also gave me a green, you know, green light. Right? Got my inevitable permission slip to be drinking as much as I wanted to, as long as I was around people that were drinking as much as they wanted to. Right. Exactly. I’m not saying that that’s good or bad or whatever. I also change my mindset around sobriety, and I think that’s why it’s been such a positive experience for me.

Katy Ripp (00:28:15) –  I very much like you, claim sobriety. I do not identify as an alcoholic. I knew it was no longer serving me in any way. I knew that I was using it as an escape and a coping mechanism, and I basically just got sick of it. I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I knew that there were some feelings underneath there that I didn’t deal with, that I had to, and the only way I was going to do that is to clear the shit. And for me, the shit was alcohol. For somebody else, it might be shopping for somebody else, it might be smoking for some food, or me. It was alcohol and I it was just the tippy top of whatever it was. And the rest of it has just like fallen into place. And I knew it in my soul that if I could just get this one thing, I could just quit that one thing, the rest of it would fall into place. I just knew it.

Shonna Dexter (00:29:14) –  And it’s funny you say that about the different ways we numb ourselves, because kind of my catalyst to being like, okay, alcohol is the thing I have to change.

Shonna Dexter (00:29:26) –  Even after laying on a frickin bathroom floor in Las Vegas six months earlier, I was still drinking and I had a moment backstage with my favorite band and the lead singer of that favorite band, and he’d been sober for 11 years, and And he was talking very vulnerably about his sobriety in this moment. And he said, I was a junkie and my drugs of choice were alcohol and pills. And it was something about that, actually, he said, I am a junkie. Like he claimed that as like, this is inside me. This is who I am, and I have to regulate that. right. And in that moment, that sentence just landed in me. There were a lot of other people in that room, and that sentence had no effect on anybody else in that room. But for me, it was this moment of clarity where I was like, well, I’m a freaking junkie too. But wine and food or my coping mechanism, those are what I’m a junkie for. And it’s two things that happen to be socially acceptable to consume, you know, too much of.

Katy Ripp (00:30:42) –  Yeah. Especially as a woman, for sure. Like it is three bodies. Like it’s fine. Just eat ice when you feel sad or drink wine.

Shonna Dexter (00:30:52) –  With your kids. Yeah. You know.

Katy Ripp (00:30:54) –  Right. Yeah. And again, I always like, want to put a disclaimer out there like you do you I’m gonna do me like whatever. I don’t really care. However, I also want to offer an option of this doesn’t have to be the way it’s done. And you could talk about it in a normal way. And you don’t have to be a junkie in order to change, right? Like when I say highly functioning, I mean, you know, you always. You’re, like, highly functioning alcoholic. Okay, fine. Like you were functioning everything. Yeah. You want to label me that way? That’s totally cool. If you want to call me an alcoholic because I don’t drink anymore. And that’s the only way you believe that that works. That’s totally fine. I don’t really care.

Katy Ripp (00:31:39) –  It’s not how I look at myself. So it doesn’t really matter to me anymore. But I was highly functioning hungover every day. Highly functioning?

Shonna Dexter (00:31:48) –  Yeah. I had a very successful business.

Katy Ripp (00:31:51) –  Yes. Also, I was using that as an escape. Right? Like, the busier I was, the less I had to. I mean, really, now I’m like, I’m still highly functioning, but at such a level that it’s like acceptable for me and appropriate amount of functioning. And like, I’m also not trying to please everybody. I mean, that part has changed so much. But to be functioning, it’s very hard for people to understand that you have a problem when you’re still getting up and running businesses and getting your kids to school and and doing all the things from the outside look fine. But for me it was not fine, right? Like, I was done. I was done being not fine. I wasn’t even fine anymore.

Shonna Dexter (00:32:36) –  And in that moment, you know, that was a conversation that happened in June of 2019.

Shonna Dexter (00:32:43) –  And from there out through the end of 2019, I would say really did moderate my drinking for the first time in my adult life. I would have a glass of wine out at dinner. I would buy a bottle of wine on the weekend and drink one bottle of wine over the weekend at home. But that forced the conversation within myself and with myself of why do I still think I need this at all? What is in me that say you cannot live your life without this?

Katy Ripp (00:33:21) –  Let me ask you when you started to moderate for that like six months, did you feel very white knuckled. Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (00:33:27) –  Yes. You know you’re controlling it. You’re just say okay I’m not going to do this anymore. And for me it was just an examination process that needed to happen in this journey for me. And I remember, funny enough, in November of 2019, it was the end of November and went to see the same bands, and I drank way more of that day and that night than I had drank in the previous five months, because I couldn’t imagine going and seeing men and not drinking, like not making this whole big production out of it.

Shonna Dexter (00:34:07) –  You know, taking the afternoon off work and going and pre gaming and going out to dinner with our friends. And then, you know, all of these things. And I was the funny thing is like I was so excited to tell that guy how what he said had affected me. But here I am like half slurring my words when I’m having a conversation with him. The next day I was just like, what the hell? I’m like, okay, so I knew that, like, I had white knuckled it. I had controlled my surroundings so much I hadn’t changed my thoughts. Yeah. Around alcohol, I still thought that alcohol was providing something for me in my life. It was providing a positive, and it was something that I couldn’t imagine my life without. So I just kept drinking and controlling it. And I think it was part of the alcohol experiment process, and it was very much about identity and simultaneously listening to Atomic Habits talk about identity. And I just decided in January of 2020, like I am sober, period.

Shonna Dexter (00:35:22) –  Period. This is who I am. This is who I want to be in this. So I’m going to be. And I waited 100 days to put it out there to the world. But I did that for the accountability, frankly. Yeah. In the beginning it was like, okay, I made it a hundred days. That felt astronomical to me at that time. Like, could not believe that I did that. And then I decided, but I could start to see the positives it was bringing. I had 100 days in the middle of a worldwide pandemic. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:35:58) –  Like early on. Early on, right where.

Shonna Dexter (00:36:02) –  My business had just been shut down. Like when I’m crossing 100 days, my business is shut down, I cannot work, I have no income. All of these things.

Katy Ripp (00:36:12) –  Are a reason to drink, right?

Shonna Dexter (00:36:14) –  Everything was falling apart, right? Like at that point, we didn’t know if we were going to get any sort of assistance. I knew nothing. I’m just over here floating around.

Shonna Dexter (00:36:23) –  And I remember my birthday is March 31st. So very close to 100 days at that point. I sat on the couch and watch CNN all die of New York City. You know, this is back when Cuomo was having his daily press conferences and all of that. And I just sobbed through the entire day, and I was so depressed. But I felt it.

Katy Ripp (00:36:52) –  Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (00:36:53) –  And that was a profound moment for me to sit there and actually feel like what is happening. This is scary. Nobody knows what’s going on. How many people are going to die? Like as an empath and a highly sensitive person? Like my brain goes a million different directions, but sitting there in that moment and saying, I’m going to feel this and I’m not going to numb this. That was a profound moment for me. And so it wasn’t, you know, it was maybe a week later that I had 100 days. And I put it out there on social media and I just said, you know, I have claimed this for myself.

Shonna Dexter (00:37:32) –  But again, I looked at it as accountability. Also, if I put this out there to my, you know, 1000 friends on Facebook and my approximately 1000 followers on Instagram, there’s going to be a lot of people watching. And when you’ve never seen a photo of Shawna that didn’t have her holding a drink. And so I knew if you put it out there now, everybody’s going to be waiting for you to mess up.

Katy Ripp (00:37:58) –  100%. Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (00:37:59) –  And so how are we going to handle that? And I just stepped into it. I stepped into the identity and said, this is who I am, and I’m not going to be ashamed of it because I look around and I know, I know, just from my circle of friends that there are a lot of people in this world who have issues with alcohol, and it’s just not talked about. Yeah. And, you know, I also have a lot of people in my life who had had problems, who had gone to rehab, who are in AA, who are in recovery, and that was a great thing for them.

Shonna Dexter (00:38:32) –  But I also know enough about myself to know I was never going to walk into a room with people and stand up in front of them and say, hi, my name is Shonna and I’m an alcoholic because I didn’t feel that way about myself. Yeah, so I had to find something that I did identify with and that felt empowering to me. Instead of being a victim to alcohol, I am choosing to live a life without alcohol and that is empowering.

Katy Ripp (00:38:59) –  I could not have said that any better, I just. There are so many ways to get sober or quit drinking or whatever language you want to put around it. Maybe it’s changed right now, right? Like there’s a difference. Even five years ago, you were either in recovery, which meant you were always an alcoholic. And and you are powerless. You’re in a 12 step program or you’re in full on rehab. Nobody made a choice to do it. That was the perception. I’m not saying nobody made a choice because lots of people have made this choice, but it’s I mean, one of my fears was, well, everybody’s going to know I have a problem.

Katy Ripp (00:39:40) –  Guess what? Everybody already knew I had a problem, right? So walk around the problem. So and I had I had also done like a 90 day stint. I had made it 90 days because I was accountable. I started on January 1st of 2018, did 90 days, blogged about it every day, had the accountability and the accountability saved me, honest to God, you know? And then, of course, I went very quickly back into my old habits. It got worse, actually.

Shonna Dexter (00:40:12) –  I fulfilled my obligation. Look at me. Look at all these great things I did. Now I’m gonna go ruin it all.

Katy Ripp (00:40:19) –  I have a problem. But, you know, if you like, need to take a 90 day stint. It’s sort of a red flag, right? Like. Or a yellow flag, at least. Like you feel like you need to take a 90 day stint from it altogether. There might be a reason you need to do that. For me, the accountability, like you said, like when I put it out there and the second time I did it, the time that I knew.

Katy Ripp (00:40:41) –  So I did it the first time for 90 days, went back to drinking and, you know, whatever. But I had fulfilled my obligation to my followers. And, you know, I was like, it’s fine. It’s fine to drink again. It got worse for me in the end. Like it got to a point where I was drinking at home. I only wanted to drink at home because nobody would judge me for how much I was drinking. You know, like that snowball goes down the hill pretty fast for me, but the accountability for me. So when I was in, I have decided I’m not drinking anymore ever again. I’ve made that decision in my head. I didn’t share it until 90 days, and I had already known that I was never going to go back. But I was like, If I’m going to tell people I’m never going back on social media where I find my accountability. I’ve got to be real certain for sure.

Shonna Dexter (00:41:27) –  That was exactly how I felt.

Katy Ripp (00:41:29) –  Yeah, and I needed it.

Katy Ripp (00:41:31) –  And 90 days was a big deal to me. 100 days was like magic for me. I don’t know why. I don’t like people ask all the time, like, how long does it take to get to like the euphoria, the pink cloud, the, you know, blah blah blah. I think it’s different for everyone. A hundred days has definitely floated out there as the big deal, right? I consider like 100 days was a big deal for me because I never freaking thought I’d make it one day, much less 100. I still celebrate days, right? Like I just surpassed my thousandth. I don’t count, I still have a counter on my phone, I don’t count and I have to look it up a lot. Right? But there is something to be said about those days and like, look how far I’ve come. Does it look like that every single day? No. Right. But I know and I know how I feel, and a thousand days is a big deal to me because so much has changed and subtle changes, right? Like nobody lives your life, so you don’t know what it’s like to be at home, be Be inside me and be like, oh my God.

Katy Ripp (00:42:38) –  My nervous system is completely chill.

Shonna Dexter (00:42:41) –  Like, yeah, like regulated.

Katy Ripp (00:42:43) –  Percent of the time.

Shonna Dexter (00:42:44) –  Is that what what what a system. What I can sleep.

Katy Ripp (00:42:49) –  I in.

Shonna Dexter (00:42:50) –  My sleep.

Katy Ripp (00:42:51) –  And I was like, you know, getting up once or twice a night to pee or I would wake up at 3:00 and never get back to sleep like.

Shonna Dexter (00:42:59) –  230 to me.

Katy Ripp (00:43:00) –  Yeah, I would, you know, and there’s some science behind this, right. Like, you know, now there’s like, your adrenaline wears off basically. And then everything just like, shoot straight through the roof and wakes you up and you’re like, oh my God, I can’t stop my it.

Shonna Dexter (00:43:14) –  What’s funny is for years I called that entrepreneur brain. I really thought I was waking up in the middle of the night because I would wake up and think about my business. Yeah, but I really thought, like, oh, this is all because I’m stressed out from trying to grow this business. Yeah, I never considered or even knew again.

Shonna Dexter (00:43:33) –  And that’s where I think that Annie’s program was good for me, because learning the science behind that, I was like, wait, yeah, this is what the last decade has really been about. Yeah. And I thought all this time I was just a stressed out business owner.

Katy Ripp (00:43:49) –  Yeah. I mean, now that I’m on the other side of this, my business ownership is lovely, right? Like, I don’t ever wake up. I don’t wake up with stress. My business. I don’t wake up ever, to be honest, like I was having sleeping problems. I knew it was because I was drinking, you know, after I had like, read enough about it. Then I figured it out and I was like, no, it’s going to be different tonight, right? It never, ever was never. But also after that, like first ten days of when you feel like the Mack truck hit you for ten days of like the first ten days are really rough. Just anybody who’s out there that’s never quit drinking.

Katy Ripp (00:44:27) –  I’m telling you, the first ten days is not what the rest of it feels like.

Shonna Dexter (00:44:32) –  Exactly. You gotta grind through that ten.

Katy Ripp (00:44:34) –  Days sucks so bad. But like, if you can get on the other side of ten days, my sleep is like orgasmic. I hit the pillow and I never wake up until the sun comes up. I rise and set with the sun. I just I don’t have any sleep problems. It is lovely. I love to go to bed.

Shonna Dexter (00:44:55) –  Recently. I love going to bed. Oh man.

Katy Ripp (00:44:57) –  This is.

Shonna Dexter (00:44:58) –  Gonna be so exciting. Such an old lady. I don’t care, like I embrace the old lady lifestyle. I see everything great about being an old lady and going to bed early. Yeah. Yeah. For instance, this weekend I’m going to Dallas to see the band I was referencing. Their show doesn’t start until 10:15 p.m. and I was like, you know how many iced coffees I’m going to have to have Friday afternoon?

Katy Ripp (00:45:24) –  That and to sleep late.

Katy Ripp (00:45:26) –  Maybe wake me up at 9 p.m. to go.

Shonna Dexter (00:45:29) –  That’s what I was thinking, actually. Like, could you just, like. I’ll go to bed around seven. You wake me up, we’ll head over to Billy Bob’s, and then we’ll go back. And, you know.

Katy Ripp (00:45:40) –  I’m taking my family to see Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks. And I was like, well, the good news is, is that they’re way older than me. So the show starts at seven. I’m probably going to be home and in bed by like 1030. It’s gonna be Amen.

Shonna Dexter (00:45:53) –  That’s the best. But that’s how my lifestyle has changed, right? Like, I just don’t go places that I’m going to need to be out. Generally speaking, I don’t go places that I’m going to need to be out late. Because to me, my daily life and my routine is so good and so beautiful, and it works so well for me. Every day is the same, frankly. Weekends don’t matter. Holidays don’t matter.

Shonna Dexter (00:46:22) –  You know, I’m lucky enough that my business has grown in a way that I was able to retire my husband from his corporate job in 2022. And so our days every day or the same, it’s wake with no alarm. You know, whenever your body says we’ve had enough sleep, you get up. We’ve become very conscious about our health. It’s how we spend our money now, frankly, is on our health. And so, you know, we go to the gym a few times a week. We walk 4 to 5 miles every single day. You know all of these things and it’s just a day in and day out thing, and I never want a break from my life. Yeah. Life is really beautiful. Yeah. I couldn’t have imagined saying that before I quit drinking.

Katy Ripp (00:47:16) –  No, the escape part was something for me to write like. I could also tell when I started to look for travel, right? Like when I started, I could tell I wanted to escape my life, and then I would go somewhere and I’d come back and I’d.

Katy Ripp (00:47:29) –  My life would.

Shonna Dexter (00:47:29) –  Still be, hey, nothing has changed. Nothing’s changed.

Katy Ripp (00:47:33) –  Except now I have more work and I’m also hungover and I’m, you know, £10 heavier. You know, all the things. And one thing.

Shonna Dexter (00:47:41) –  My husband said right before he left his corporate career. And it was our last trip before he left. And he said, you know, I spent the last three days dreading going back to work, so I didn’t even enjoy my the second half of my vacation, because all I was thinking about is, what’s gonna what’s my life going to look like when I get back home? Yeah, right. Am I going back to.

Katy Ripp (00:48:04) –  Well, yeah. Right. That’s what I feel about Mondays every Monday now. Right. Like, I talk about Monday a lot. And yes, it’s a week. It’s a day. It’s you know, but it is such a barometer for me about how content I am because I used to loathe Mondays, and I feel like it’s an indicator of like, if you hate Mondays, you’re trying to escape all weekend long.

Katy Ripp (00:48:30) –  And then of course you have like, Sunday scaries. I didn’t even know what that phrase was like. I definitely don’t have a Sunday. Scary, right? Like I literally wake up on Mondays and I’m like, super excited, right? I plan all my favorite things on Mondays now, right? Like, I love Mondays. I’d love to get into how much your business has changed, right? Right. We might have to have a part two of this I would love to hear about, like how much your business has changed, how much you equate that to sobriety. And also there’s something to be said about sobriety, don’t get me wrong. Like but for me it was just the catalyst for her. It was the catalyst into taking care of myself and like, real self-care. Not like Doritos and a bottle of red wine in a bubble bath. Like, that’s not self-care. Self-care, to me is like doctor’s appointments, dentist appointments. financial meetings, things like paying attention to your expenses, paying attention to your staffing.

Katy Ripp (00:49:32) –  Like, tell me how that’s all changed for you.

Shonna Dexter (00:49:36) –  I think for me, what it did was it gave me clarity and it gave me confidence. And I felt like once I was able to conquer alcohol, which I saw is the biggest stumbling block in my life. I had confidence that I could do anything. Anything I could dream of could be my reality. At the time, you know, I was working in my business. I was doing spray tans and now Covid forced me out. And so it shut us down. And I brought my staff back first because I was like, they don’t have, you know, we had some money in savings. My husband’s working the whole time, you know, from home. So at that point he’s still in his corporate job. So we had some stability. And frankly, then I wasn’t paying myself a ton. You know, I had created a job for myself. Not so much a business. I wasn’t really I was I was an operator, not an owner.

Shonna Dexter (00:50:35) –  Right. But bringing them back and then sort out of, like, reverse engineering myself out of the business. So. Okay, wait, we’re making a little bit of money here. I’m paying them. There’s still enough money for me to pay myself a little bit. Okay. Like, if I lean into this, what does this look like? And so I went back, you know, I went from doing spray tans 5 to 6 days a week to doing spray tans like one, maybe two days a week.

Katy Ripp (00:51:10) –  Did you have one studio at that point?

Shonna Dexter (00:51:13) –  At that point in 2020? I had one studio, three room studio. I had four employees, okay? And all were part time. I had literally transferred one of those girls to become full time the week we got shut down. So oh my. My first full time employee got shut down two days after we had just done a renovation on our studio. Unveiled it all that Monday, and on Thursday we were shut down. So it was great.

Katy Ripp (00:51:42) –  Yeah, the timing was impeccable. So many lessons.

Shonna Dexter (00:51:46) –  But you know, again, the clarity that was coming with not drinking and just clouding up my brain every day and overloading my nervous system at the same time, I’m going to therapy. I’m doing energy modalities like Reiki, I did hypnotherapy, I tried a million different modalities of therapy to find what works for me. And so just all of these things slowly started to build into a life and a lifestyle for me that I was like, wait a minute. Okay, so now we’re kind of coming into our slow season. This is a test and it was frickin 2020. Nobody’s going anywhere. And let’s be honest, spray tanning is a it’s a special occasion thing for them for the vast majority of people. So they’re getting one before they go on a vacation, a wedding, you know, a big event, whatever. Well, none of those things are happening. Yeah. But then I was like, you know what, winter 2020? I had a girlfriend.

Shonna Dexter (00:52:48) –  She was opening a new salon, and she’s like, hey, I have this space. You could kind of like, start a second location. Why not? Are just crazy enough to do that shit. And so the pool. I released a space for her and said okay. We opened that in March of 2021. I worked there to get it up and going. Hired someone who kind of took it over, and the next thing I know, like I just am not working in my business anymore. It wasn’t necessarily like a okay, this is how I’m going to do it. Now I can take a step back and say, this is how I did it, and these are the decisions. But along the way, I don’t think I really had sight of what was going to happen long term. I dreamed of having time as an asset.

Katy Ripp (00:53:42) –  Oh, I love that.

Shonna Dexter (00:53:43) –  And that was my big dream. Time? Not necessarily money. Yeah. And so I started engineering my life and intentionally building my life for that.

Shonna Dexter (00:53:57) –  And that is what I have today. I work maybe, maybe four hours a week on my business. I have a staff who run now. We have two brick and mortar locations. I have staff who run those locations. I took a three month sabbatical in 2022, did not work on my business. One day for three months and everything just kept going and I kept getting paid. But then that led to a whole other slew of problems of who am I without that notion of my identity, right?

Katy Ripp (00:54:30) –  Right. Then the identity crisis comes again. Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (00:54:33) –  But, you know, I think that sobriety gave me clarity. But the biggest thing it gave me was confidence. Yeah. And when you believe in yourself and when you believe in your ability to take control of your life and build your life with intention, nothing can stop you. You will figure it out. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (00:54:55) –  That’s real honest.

Shonna Dexter (00:54:57) –  Yeah. And when you deal with the shit. Yeah, because we all have stuff. And instead of just trying to suppress it, numb it, make it go away.

Shonna Dexter (00:55:09) –  If you’re doing the things you need to do to deal with it, for me now, it’s like walking outside every day. That is my mental health walk. Yeah, like it’s when I do my best thinking about my business. It’s when I do my best thinking about myself and just doing hard things, you know? And as you do hard things, you gain confidence. Yeah, right. As you are successful in those things. So now I feel pretty much unstoppable. It’s like whatever I decide to do, I know I’m going to be successful at because I’m going to freaking figure it out. My brain just go like, yeah, I know I used to be so afraid. Like my business is going to collapse. You know, I’m going to end up in a band by the river, you know, all of these things. That’s where my brain would go. And now today, it’s like, you know what? Even if everything got taken away from me tomorrow, I still have the same brain that built all of this.

Shonna Dexter (00:56:03) –  Yeah, it made this life. And I could do it again.

Katy Ripp (00:56:07) –  Oh, I’m gonna cry.

Shonna Dexter (00:56:09) –  And so I, It’s just the confidence that comes with that and those experiences. And that’s not to say every day is friggin peachy, because I had a frickin mental breakdown in March when I was in the middle of this second build out and this new brick and mortar, and it costs twice as much as we thought it was going to. And all my old money issues, all the 20 something Shaughna money issues came flying in and I had to do like some trauma therapy around this stuff. And mistakes I’ve made in the past that were just still living inside me and giving me a lot of shame and a lot of self-doubt. And so I had to clear those things out of me to be able to successfully move forward and say, what’s done is done. Yeah. And now you’ve got more debt. You’re going to be just fine. Right? And so it’s recognizing those things and understanding what is making you feel the way you’re feeling.

Shonna Dexter (00:57:06) –  If it’s a negative feeling or even a positive feeling so that you can reinforce those positive feelings like confidence or you can learn to eliminate you will never eliminate all negative feelings. Now you just have to figure out how to manage them.

Katy Ripp (00:57:22) –  Yeah, you just get stronger, right? Like you get more of what you need. If you’re not, like, shoving it under the bed all the time. Right.

Shonna Dexter (00:57:31) –  And that’s I think so much of you asked me earlier about white knuckling sobriety. And if you’re white knuckling it, your chances of being successful are slim to none. Yeah. If you’re just constantly fighting yourself, you may be able to do it for months or even years and watch people white knuckle it for years.

Katy Ripp (00:57:50) –  Oh, and then I’m so sad.

Shonna Dexter (00:57:53) –  It just takes one thing, right? But when you embrace this lifestyle and say, you know what, let’s see how good this can be. Instead of all that focusing on all the things it’s going to take away from your life. So focus it on all the things it’s going to bring to your life.

Shonna Dexter (00:58:10) –  You’re talking about orgasmic sleep, right? You have no idea how sleep affects you. Yeah, it affects your mood and your mental stability and everything until you are getting great sleep.

Katy Ripp (00:58:25) –  Yeah. And then you’re like, oh, this is what this is about.

Shonna Dexter (00:58:29) –  And that is what has.

Katy Ripp (00:58:31) –  Made my.

Shonna Dexter (00:58:31) –  Husband completely cut back on his drinking. Yeah, because he started tracking his sleep with an app on his watch, and he sees exactly what happens to his sleep on the evenings where he has even one glass of whiskey. Yeah, bourbon or a couple beers in the afternoon. He’s seen how tiny of alcohol consumption, amount of alcohol consumption, what brought does to his deep sleep versus his, you know, and his restful sleep. All of this. I think that honestly, I think people learning more about sleep, we’re learning way more about it, people learning more about that and the effects of alcohol on sleep. I think that’s going to be what Revolution is, is the sober, curious movement.

Shonna Dexter (00:59:17) –  And it’s already happening.

Katy Ripp (00:59:19) –  Now. The alcohol companies aren’t telling you that. That’s why you have shitty sleep. Like that’s not what they’re doing, right? Like big alcohol is still trying to sell alcohol, and they’re not going to give you all the scientific shit about, you know, the stuff.

Shonna Dexter (00:59:34) –  For you this point.

Katy Ripp (00:59:36) –  That it’s horrible for you. What’s next for Shonna? Big, hairy, audacious, breezy goal.

Shonna Dexter (00:59:42) –  Oh, you know that you’re.

Katy Ripp (00:59:43) –  Obviously going to.

Shonna Dexter (00:59:45) –  Achieve. I am launching a new coaching community for my industry in July. I’m still figuring out what shape that takes. But you know, being a perfectionist or like an all or nothing person, like I’ve always been like, okay, it has to be perfect before, no, I’m done with that. Like, we’re just going to put it out there and we’re going to figure it out as we go. We did this a little bit in the winter, and so I’m just going to kind of continue on with that.

Shonna Dexter (01:00:13) –  I figured out, you know, I love helping women in my industry, take control of their lives and their businesses and stop just throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. And let’s really be intentional about this. Yeah, I went and got my life coaching certification last year or two, because I know that your business should support your life, support the lifestyle that you want. And so many of us, we just never get there.

Katy Ripp (01:00:40) –  Yeah, I’ve said this a number of times, especially as small business owners, entrepreneurs, however you want to call it whatever you want to call yourself. There is such a blurred line between professional and personal lives.

Shonna Dexter (01:00:53) –  It’s the same thing.

Katy Ripp (01:00:54) –  Yeah, if it exists at all for women. And so there isn’t to me, like I also have decided to just like I’m just a life coach, right? Like if you have a small business, that’s cool.

Shonna Dexter (01:01:07) –  We can talk about that.

Katy Ripp (01:01:08) –  Yeah, definitely. And for that and I will definitely give you all the pointers.

Katy Ripp (01:01:12) –  But until you deal with what’s inside you, you are never, ever going to achieve what you think you’re going to achieve. Like it’s not enough to want it. You have to figure out, like peel back all the layers and figure out what’s at the deep depths of your worthiness. Soul, before you ever get this. And so many of us at this age, I think are like we struggle with worthiness and what is our value and what is our purpose? Until you start to value yourself, there just is no room for you to achieve anything. And I would go to the mat with somebody that has said. It doesn’t matter how you feel about yourself, you can achieve. I will go to the mat with you and you might be able to do it for a while, but longevity is not on your side, so sure. Anyway, bring it on.

Shonna Dexter (01:02:03) –  Like growing my business from one person to now 25 employees, from my basement to to brick and mortar locations, you know, part time to, Well, now back to very part time, you know, but I’ve had every iteration over the last 13 years of what a small business could be.

Shonna Dexter (01:02:23) –  And especially in my industry, it’s such a unique industry. And so I really want to help people in my industry just kind of take my blueprint and adjust it to fit their business and their desired lifestyle. and teach them the things. Because most of it, we don’t go to business. We didn’t go to business school. When you spray tans on people because it makes them feel good and makes us feel good when they feel good, but we don’t know anything about business. And so those are all the things I’ve had to learn myself over 13 years. And so then just bringing those people, those resources and then throwing in a lot of the lifestyle stuff because I just really, I believe the same as you like. Yeah. If you aren’t dealing with your daily life, if you’re not happy in your daily life or at minimum content in your daily life, your business is never going to fix it.

Katy Ripp (01:03:22) –  Shonna, where can people find you if they are interested in reaching out? I’m assuming that’s okay with you.

Shonna Dexter (01:03:27) –  Yeah, so I’m just on Instagram. Shonna, which is esho and na underscore Dexter. That’s my main personal account. I’m very vulnerable open on that account. I tell it like it is when I’m going through shit. Everybody in my world knows. And because I just also especially in midlife, I think you find confidence, but you also start to understand that, like everybody’s going through stuff and, you know, if I can be a light for someone, if I can, you know, the number of people who have said you have contributed to me making the decision to quit drinking, that is worth every vulnerable share times a million to me. Yeah. And so I am just a I’m a very vulnerable person. Like I’m willing to be vulnerable for the greater good. Yeah. And so that’s what I try to put out there is just really positive but real. Yeah. I mean.

Katy Ripp (01:04:32) –  Life gets lifea sometimes.

Shonna Dexter (01:04:34) –  It does. And it doesn’t matter how much work you’ve done on yourself. Yeah.

Shonna Dexter (01:04:37) –  Or how sober you are. Things things are going to be hard. Yeah. For your time. Yeah.

Katy Ripp (01:04:42) –  It’s really a mindset shift though. Like, how are we looking at these things?

Shonna Dexter (01:04:46) –  Yeah, just accepting it and radical acceptances agreeing to.

Katy Ripp (01:04:51) –  I love that you were here. I love that we got to meet. I sent Shawna a message, I don’t know what couple of months ago. And I was like, you’re in Kansas City, right? It’s like 50 bucks for me to fly there.

Shonna Dexter (01:05:02) –  Yeah. so I definitely come and do it sometime.

Katy Ripp (01:05:06) –  I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it. I think that that’s my travel goal. I did discover that I don’t really love to travel, except for to go and see people. Right? Because I use them for an escape forever. And now I’m like, I want to travel, but I like, just want to go and see people I know. So I’m coming to Kansas City.

Shonna Dexter (01:05:23) –  Connecting with people is it’s everything for me and the way my friend group and my connections have changed since I quit drinking.

Shonna Dexter (01:05:31) –  You know, again, whole nother podcast, but.

Katy Ripp (01:05:34) –  That’s a that’s a part two and we’re going to get there, I promise. I’m definitely going to have you back, because I really would love to hear more about the business itself. And I love to hear about how people’s relationships have changed, because I think that’s like everybody’s biggest fear, right? And like, yes, my relationships have changed. They just do what they’re meant to, right? Like we’re meant to grow and expand and do all those things. So but I also get to meet people like you, right. Like Amen. And this is like, I just think that we are meant to cross paths with people when it’s the right time. And this has been almost a five year journey for us, and here we are.

Shonna Dexter (01:06:12) –  So we.

Katy Ripp (01:06:12) –  Are. Thank you so much. I just I love everything about this. So I’m just going to stop the recording quick. And that’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of living authentically with me.

Katy Ripp (01:06:26) –  Before you go, don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram. Shoot me a message @KatyRipp. I’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and connect with you further. And remember, if you want more details on today’s episode or just want to explore more about designing your life unapologetically, head on over to my website at katyripp.com. There you’ll find all the juicy details and resources you need to keep the inspiration flowing. Lastly, if you’d like to join me on the show, whether it’s to tell about your experience of designing your own life, to share your expertise, or if you’d like to participate in lifestyle coaching live on air, don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story could inspire countless others on their own path to living authentically. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep living boldly designing your life. And remember #ActuallyICan.